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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #152335

Re: Modern computer brochures; military security; then and now ?

From Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid>
Newsgroups alt.folklore.computers
Subject Re: Modern computer brochures; military security; then and now ?
Date 2015-10-06 22:59 +0200
Organization Me, Myself and I
Message-ID <7bpdec-unh.ln1@sambook.reistad.name> (permalink)
References <4518cedc-f59a-42b8-bbd1-9883daffdf82@googlegroups.com> <20151006150457.ac49fad5c1415599d61d6c88@eircom.net> <h47dec-d3h.ln1@sambook.reistad.name> <ecc0375b-c4ab-458c-b9c6-5e048ed5355b@googlegroups.com>

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In article <ecc0375b-c4ab-458c-b9c6-5e048ed5355b@googlegroups.com>,
 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
>On Tuesday, October 6, 2015 at 11:51:02 AM UTC-4, Morten Reistad wrote:
>> They are an unmitigated disaster in terms of energy efficiency and
>> pollution. The thermal efficiency is well down in single digit
>> percent, and one trip along an electrified 25kV line can lead to
>> the need to wash _all_ the isolators along that track to get rid
>> of leakage currents through the coal dust. And it is a similar
>> disaster in terms of service, operation and maintenence.
>
>
>The Pennsylvania Railroad had a sprawling electrified network, but still had much steam
>trackage.  Often a train originating on electric tracks but going to a brach line would be
>steam powered, and it was not unusual for steam trains to run under wire.
>
>The Reading Company's through trains and freights were steam powered, but still ran under wire.
>
>So, did the electric railroads face insulator problems from the soot of those steam
>trains?  Or did the mainline engines run hot enough to prevent the problem?  (Railroad
>engines were supposed to run with a clear stack--a sooty stack meant inefficient
>cumbustion and sloppy firing.)  I would think that would be a real nuisance and prevent
>steam trains from running under wire.

This depends a lot on the voltage. 750V DC can handle a lot more soot
than 25kV AC without leaking anything near as much current.

>> It took diesel-electric to phase out the old steam giants; 
>> introduced first in the 1930s, and came in full ca 1950.
>
>Once diesel-electric locomotives were perfected, their big advantage over steam was much
>lower maintenance.  A diesel could travel much further before servicing than a steam
>engine; this mean intermediate support shops could be closed.
>
>A second advantage was the diesels could be coupled together as needed for a particular
>train (though in practice they were often left as four unit sets).  A light train needing
>only one engine could be operated.
>
>A very efficient train was the Budd Rail Diesel Car, which consisted of self propelled
>individual units.  Unfortunately, while they reduced losses, they did not make a profit. 
>Light duty branch lines were best served by bus or truck.  Ironically, the railroads
>attempted to do just that, but the regulators said railroads couldn't be in outside
>businesses.

This is unique to the US where the regulators in practice buried the railroads.

One thing about diesel was the lower, much lower, fuel consumption. But coal
was way cheaper than oil until ca 1950, so YMMV.

Also, it is not just maintenence. It is normal operations. A steam engine
needs two people, one to operate the engine and one to actually drive; 
and often 1-2 people to shuffle coal. A diesel can be run by turning the
ignition. 

Barring subzero temperatures a diesel is just started, and allowed to 
run 5-10 minutes to get properly warm before carrying much load. 

A steam engine needs lots and lots of preparation, like filling 
graphite to lubricate the steam moving parts.

-- mrr

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Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-09-21 09:38 -0700
  Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-09-21 14:00 -0500
    Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-09-21 20:20 +0000
    Re: Modern computer brochures; military security; then and now ? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-21 21:37 +0000
  Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2015-09-21 17:59 -0500
    Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2015-09-22 18:13 -0700
    Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Bill Marcum <bill.marcum57@gmail.com> - 2015-10-04 02:04 +0000
      Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-10-05 07:51 -0700
      Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-05 10:31 -0700
        Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2015-10-05 12:39 -0500
          Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-10-05 13:57 -0400
            Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2015-10-05 12:00 -0700
          Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? John Levine <johnl@iecc.com> - 2015-10-05 21:59 +0000
        Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-05 17:56 +0000
          Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-10-05 15:57 -0500
        Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-10-05 14:04 -0400
          Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-10-05 16:05 -0500
            Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-10-06 13:14 +0000
              Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2015-10-06 08:28 -0500
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Michael LeVine <mlevinespmfltr@redshift.com> - 2015-10-06 07:23 -0700
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-10-06 15:04 +0100
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2015-10-06 17:49 +0200
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-10-06 17:38 +0100
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2015-10-06 22:49 +0200
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-10-07 08:12 +0100
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2015-10-07 19:37 +0200
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2015-10-07 14:45 -0500
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2015-10-07 23:41 +0200
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-08 05:14 +0000
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2015-10-08 09:12 +0200
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security; then and now ? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-08 12:26 -0400
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security; then and now ? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-10-08 16:46 +0000
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-10-08 16:22 -0500
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-10-08 20:40 -0700
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-09 16:47 +0000
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-06 17:13 +0000
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-06 10:40 -0700
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? terry+googleblog@tmk.com - 2015-10-06 12:38 -0700
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-10-06 15:33 -0500
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-06 14:19 -0700
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-10-06 17:24 -0700
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Greymaus <mausg@mail.com> - 2015-10-07 10:24 +0000
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2015-10-06 23:09 +0200
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Greymaus <mausg@mail.com> - 2015-10-06 18:27 +0000
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-06 10:32 -0700
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2015-10-06 22:59 +0200
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-06 14:34 -0700
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-10-07 13:06 +0000
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-06 23:50 +0000
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-06 17:00 +0000
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2015-10-07 07:55 +0000
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Greymaus <mausg@mail.com> - 2015-10-07 10:39 +0000
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2015-10-07 19:43 +0200
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2015-10-07 19:40 +0200
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Greymaus <mausg@mail.com> - 2015-10-06 18:21 +0000
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security; then and now ? Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2015-10-07 00:56 +0100
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security; then and now ? lawrence@cluon.com - 2015-10-08 16:55 +0200
              Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2015-10-06 14:29 +0000
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-10-06 15:44 -0500
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-06 14:22 -0700
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security; then and now ? Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-10-06 17:49 -0500
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Greymaus <mausg@mail.com> - 2015-10-07 10:26 +0000
              Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-06 07:49 -0700
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-06 17:00 +0000
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-10-06 10:46 -0700
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-10-06 15:51 -0500
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-10-07 08:29 +0100
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-07 07:40 -0700
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-10-07 15:02 +0000
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-10-07 11:57 -0400
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-10-07 17:02 +0000
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-10-07 13:43 -0400
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-07 09:44 -0700
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-07 16:55 +0000
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-10-07 17:07 +0000
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-07 21:18 +0000
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-10-07 13:49 -0400
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-10-07 19:19 +0000
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Greymaus <mausg@mail.com> - 2015-10-07 10:30 +0000
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security; then and now ? Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2015-10-07 12:41 -0500
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-10-07 05:34 -0700
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2015-10-07 07:13 +0000
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-10-07 09:54 -0400
              Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-10-06 11:39 -0400
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-10-06 16:04 +0000
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-10-06 13:15 -0400
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-06 10:36 -0700
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-10-06 18:53 +0000
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-10-06 15:58 -0500
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2015-10-06 16:25 -0500
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-10-08 16:30 -0500
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-10-08 20:53 -0400
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Paul <pssawyer@comcast.net.INVALID> - 2015-10-09 19:10 +0000
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-10-09 15:03 -0500
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2015-10-09 15:56 -0500
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-10-09 16:51 -0500
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-06 14:17 -0700
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-10-06 23:14 -0400
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-07 07:35 -0700
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-10-07 11:57 -0400
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-10-07 17:11 +0000
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-10-07 13:35 -0400
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2015-10-08 07:00 +0000
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2015-10-08 13:08 +0200
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-10-08 13:29 +0100
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2015-10-08 15:21 +0000
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2015-10-08 07:55 -0500
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-10-08 12:27 -0400
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> - 2015-10-06 12:04 -0700
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-10-06 16:02 -0500
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-10-06 22:55 -0400
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security; then and now ? Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2015-10-07 00:15 -0500
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-10-06 15:54 -0500
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-06 14:26 -0700
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-10-06 17:26 -0700
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-10-06 17:30 -0700
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-07 07:24 -0700
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2015-10-07 07:50 +0000
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? lawrence@cluon.com - 2015-10-08 16:30 +0200
                Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-10-08 12:22 -0400
        Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2015-10-05 15:48 -0400
          Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-10-05 20:24 +0000
            Re: Modern computer brochures; military security; then and now ? Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-10-05 19:37 -0500
            Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-06 17:00 +0000
          Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-05 13:38 -0700
            Re: Modern computer brochures; military security; then and now ? Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2015-10-05 18:48 -0500
  Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-09-21 20:31 -0700
    Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-09-22 17:09 -0500
      Re: Modern computer brochures; military security;  then and now ? Greymaus <mausg@mail.com> - 2015-09-23 11:24 +0000
    Re: Modern computer brochures; military security; then and now ? Lon <lon.stowell@comcast.net> - 2015-09-27 16:43 -0600

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