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Groups > alt.astronomy > #273069
| From | Friendly Neighborhood Vote Wrangler Emeritus <FNVWe@altusenetkooks.xxx> |
|---|---|
| References | (2 earlier) <2tudnfquibdBgE_InZ2dnUU7-YednZ2d@giganews.com> <b32ea524993019599c3b378ea955a644@dizum.com> <drSdnVMqrqnNx07InZ2dnUU7-V2dnZ2d@giganews.com> <2832f1036e6ebd741751ccd07e07acd7@dizum.com> <86GdnfJfG6m8GEnInZ2dnUU7-eudnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| Subject | Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( FNVWE has to subtract 14 ) |
| Message-ID | <5d9cb6d8355c5f855b5a1d3317d2141c@dizum.com> (permalink) |
| Date | 2015-08-19 17:35 +0200 |
| Newsgroups | alt.astronomy, alt.conspiracy, alt.usenet.kooks, sci.physics |
| Organization | dizum.com - The Internet Problem Provider |
Cross-posted to 4 groups.
Time to spin the kooks up again. Melt, kooks, melt. <snicker> Rocky, in <news:86GdnfJfG6m8GEnInZ2dnUU7-eudnZ2d@giganews.com> did thusly jump head first into the wood chipper again: > "Friendly Neighborhood Vote Wrangler Emeritus" <FNVWe@altusenetkooks.xxx> > wrote in message > > H<SMACKAKOOK!> Evangelical crusaders for sub-moronism are to shut their fat slobbering maws until they can explain in scientific terms with peer-reviewed evidence exactly how their kooky conspiracy theory is able to violate several laws of physics, Sub-Moron. Kook. LOL > H<SMACKAKOOK!> Now, get to addressing the 14 ways your kook conspiracy theory violates the laws of physics: ====================================================== 1) Your estimation of the time between detonation and the time of collapse puts the nukes between from 37.28 to 96.93 *miles* deep below the towers, a depth we don't even have the technology to drill to today, let alone back in 1968. Not to mention the fact that at that depth, the temperature is so high things like metal *melt*. That's *why* we can't drill much deeper than the 7.636 miles of the Al Shaheen oil well in Qatar (the deepest hole *ever* dug in human history)... the equipment fails. That's why the Kola Superdeep Borehole was abandoned at 7.619 miles deep. 2) The claimed "EMP pulse" in the video *you* provided wasn't an EMP pulse at all, it was satellite uplink interference. If it'd been a nuke EMP (especially one sized 150 kt), the nanosecond time frame of the explosion (and thus the sharp peak of the EMP) would have caused the camera's electronics to burn out. No amount of shielding would have been sufficient to prevent that. That there is video of the immediate aftermath proves there was no nuke, especially one sized your claimed 150 kt, which would have destroyed all electronics for dozens of miles radius. 3) The radiation experienced was of such short duration that there's no way it was neutron or gamma bombardment from a nuke. If it had been from a nuke the metal in the buildings would have shown high levels of radioactivity for decades. It was most likely the tritium in the aircraft exit signs and law enforcement weapon sights that was the source. You didn't specify what type of radiation was experienced, and I doubt you're smart or educated enough to even know what types of radiation there are. 4) The seismic waves caused by a small 150 kt nuke wouldn't be sufficient to drop the buildings, it'd barely even be felt by people in the vicinity, especially with the bombs buried, as you k'lamed, from 37.28 to 96.93 *miles* deep. It would take on the order of 2 MEGAtons to do so, especially at the depths you k'lame the bombs were buried. 5) The trigger that sets off the nuclear explosion is a neutron source. It naturally decays over time, and its decay byproducts, the elements the neutron source transmutes into as it decays, include xenon, which is a neutron absorber. It's called xenon poisoning. Any bomb that has sat for 33 years without its trigger being replenished will not have a trigger that is viable to start any sort of nuclear chain reaction. 6) I've provided a video from *inside* one of the towers *as* *it* *was* *collapsing*, showing the vibration from the buckling vertical support column and *NO* EMP: ====================== <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xYjoSvzWeo> You'll note the massive shaking from the central support column buckling, but *NO* EMP. And that was INSIDE the WTC tower. No amount of shielding would have saved that camera from a nuke EMP. ====================== 7) Why aren't you explaining how those supposed nukes were going to survive at a depth of 37.28 miles (where the temperature would be approximately 960 degrees F) to 96.93 miles (where the temperature would be approximately 1840 degrees F), Ko0K? 8) Explain how a nuclear weapon can direct its explosion through a hole without any of the compressive blast going out into surrounding rock. 9) Explain how 19 nukes (according to you, another leap of logic taken by your broken brain to explain away the 19 satellite uplink disruptions in the video *you* provided) were detonated at the WTC complex in rapid succession, yet no ill effects were experienced by electronics, the electrical grid or aircraft. 10) Why aren't you explaining how the personnel sent down to service those nukes (because now that you know the neutron-source triggers for nuclear weapons require replacement on a periodic basis, your broken brain *had* to construct an entire base at 37.28 to 96.93 miles deep (far deeper than we have the technology to dig even today, let alone back in 1968), complete with "4 blast doors to keep the explosion from getting back into the area the nukes were maintained", or your brain would have been forced to admit it was wrong when it told you those nukes sat untouched for 33 years and maintained their viability) are supposed to survive in 960 to 1840 degree heat? 11) You admitted (ed75e9d6f7ccf7296c075fd695673a37@dizum.com) that all the materials used in construction of the twin towers (all 1.5 million tons of it) had been accounted for and trucked off to the Fresh Kills landfill. How will you reconcile your admission with your kook blather that significant percentages of the buildings "vaporized" (your word) and "floated toward Europe" (your words)? 12) Why can't you provide proof of the nuclear explosion seismic signatures for these 19 nukes you k'lame were detonated at the WTC site on 11 Sep 2001? 13) Where were the vertically-directed plumes of dust and debris kicked up from your claimed nuclear weapons being detonated deep underground, Ko0K? 14) Explain how these 19 nukes could tunnel holes from their underground installation 37.28 to 96.93 miles deep, to directly under the WTC complex... in 12 seconds... through solid bedrock... prior to detonating directly below the WTC towers (which, of course, fucks up your timing between the detonations and the collapses, leading you back to where your delusion started. Congratulations, Dimwit, you've made the full circuit on The Island of Insanity. Now go 'round again.). ====================================================== There's now 14 ways your kook konspiracy theory violates the laws of physics... now you'd better get to work addressing each one, point by point, or people are gonna know you're just a retard who can't grasp simple physics. Kook. LOL -- Rocky, your brain is grasping at straws in trying to avoid admitting *you* *are* *wrong*, and as your brain becomes more and more desperate to avoid the truth we promulgate (which utterly demolishes your kook theory), it makes larger and larger leaps of illogic. For instance: ============================= A) You said the satellite uplink inteference seen in the video *you* *provided* was a nuke EMP, so your broken brain told you they must have buried nukes under the twin towers. Being a simpleton, you believed they just dug shallow holes, dropped the nukes in, smoothed over the concrete and walked away for 33 years. B) Your timing on the video *you* *provided* between the video disturbance due to satellite uplink interference (what you deemed to be a "nuke EMP") and the tower falling being 12 seconds (it was actually 14 seconds, but kooks can't count) means your supposed nukes had to have been buried from 37.28 to 96.93 *miles* below the surface (depending upon soil composition and thus speed of compressive blast transmission... and since we're talking solid bedrock here, it'd be at the upper end of that scale). Never mind that we don't have the technology to drill that deep even today, let alone in 1968. Your broken brain had to yet again change your kooky little conspiracy theory to at least try to orient itself at some acute angle to reality. So no "dug a shallow hole, covered it up, walked away for 33 years" anymore, now it was "dug an impossibly deep hole, covered it up, walked away for 33 years". C) You're such a simpleton you didn't realize nukes require periodic replacement of their neutron-source trigger, which naturally radioactively decays over time, building up the decay byproduct xenon, which absorbs neutrons. It's called xenon poisoning. So your broken brain told you that someone had to service those nukes to keep the triggers viable... which means your broken brain was thus *forced* to change from "dug a shallow hole, covered it up, walked away for 33 years", to "dug an impossibly deep hole, covered it up, walked away for 33 years", to "built an entire *facility* impossibly deep under the WTC, complete with service personnel and" "4 blast doors to keep the explosion from getting back into the area the nukes were maintained" (your words). D) Your broken brain is now saying there were 19 nukes instead of your original 3, because you know there were 19 instances of satellite uplink interference in the video *you* *provided*, in which you k'lamed one of the instances of satellite uplink interference was an EMP. And if you k'lame one of them is an EMP, they *all* must be EMPs, so your broken brain now tells you there were 19 nukes detonated in rapid succession... completely ignoring the fact that even one nuke detonation would plunge the city into darkness due to EMP, and completely ignoring the fact that no nuclear detonation byproducts were found in the rubble or its vicinity. E) Now that your broken brain was convinced that the nukes were buried deeply, of course, they had a very wide blast radius, which screwed up your kooky k'lame that they were used to demolish WTC1 and WTC2, but somehow missed WTC3 and WTC4... so your broken brain conceived that the nuclear weapons could somehow dig themselves up from that miles-deep facility to just below the WTC towers prior to exploding, in order to make their cone of destruction smaller. Nevermind that your broken brain said they dug through 37.28 to 96.93 *miles* of *solid* *bedrock* in *12* *seconds*. LOL F) So I've led you by the nose in a full circle... if those bombs your broken brain is telling you existed *did* dig their way up to underneath the WTC twin towers before detonating (they didn't... first because there were no nukes, second because it'd be impossible, but for the sake of argument, we'll continue), that leads right back to your calculation of the time between your claimed "EMP" on the video *you* *provided* and the time the buildings fell, which is pretty much where we started. So you've proven by skirting the perimeter of sanity full-circle that you're insane. LOL IOW, your broken brain is far too stupid to discern fantasy from reality. And the harder you try, the more you run around in little tard-circles, banging your head and doing your very best Rainman imitation. I can twist your brain into a pretzel with my knowledge. And I've just barely even started, I haven't even worked up a sweat yet. ============================= Kook. LOL
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Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... Friendly Neighborhood Vote Wrangler Emeritus <FNVWe@altusenetkooks.xxx> - 2015-08-15 07:46 +0200
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... "Rocky" <wookiee@att.net> - 2015-08-15 18:26 -0500
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... "Rocky" <wookiee@att.net> - 2015-08-15 18:55 -0500
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... "Bast" <fakename@nomail.invalid> - 2015-08-16 09:50 -0400
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... "Rocky" <wookiee@att.net> - 2015-08-16 09:21 -0500
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... Friendly Neighborhood Vote Wrangler Emeritus <FNVWe@altusenetkooks.xxx> - 2015-08-16 04:22 +0200
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... "Rocky" <wookiee@att.net> - 2015-08-15 21:39 -0500
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... "%" <persent@gmail.com> - 2015-08-15 19:47 -0700
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... Friendly Neighborhood Vote Wrangler Emeritus <FNVWe@altusenetkooks.xxx> - 2015-08-16 07:12 +0200
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... "Rocky" <wookiee@att.net> - 2015-08-16 00:34 -0500
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... Friendly Neighborhood Vote Wrangler Emeritus <FNVWe@altusenetkooks.xxx> - 2015-08-16 21:17 +0200
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( more 4 FNVWE ) "Rocky" <wookiee@att.net> - 2015-08-16 18:35 -0500
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( more 4 FNVWE ) Friendly Neighborhood Vote Wrangler Emeritus <FNVWe@altusenetkooks.xxx> - 2015-08-17 04:19 +0200
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( more 4 FNVWE ) "Rocky" <wookiee@att.net> - 2015-08-16 22:04 -0500
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( more 4 FNVWE ) Sarah Ehrett <ninety7gt@cox.net> - 2015-08-16 23:24 -0400
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( more 4 FNVWE ) Checkmate <Lunatic.Fringe@The.Edge> - 2015-08-16 20:41 -0700
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( more 4 FNVWE ) "%" <persent@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 20:56 -0700
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( more 4 FNVWE ) Checkmate <Lunatic.Fringe@The.Edge> - 2015-08-16 20:56 -0700
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( more 4 FNVWE ) "%" <persent@gmail.com> - 2015-08-17 03:43 -0700
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( to Sarah ) "Rocky" <wookiee@att.net> - 2015-08-16 23:28 -0500
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( to Sarah ) Sarah Ehrett <ninety7gt@cox.net> - 2015-08-17 09:26 -0400
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( to Sarah #2 ) "Rocky" <wookiee@att.net> - 2015-08-17 09:20 -0500
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( to Sarah #2 ) Sarah Ehrett <ninety7gt@cox.net> - 2015-08-17 10:28 -0400
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( to Sarah #2 ) "Rocky" <wookiee@att.net> - 2015-08-17 09:37 -0500
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( to Sarah #2 ) Sarah Ehrett <ninety7gt@cox.net> - 2015-08-17 17:41 -0400
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( to Sarah #2 ) Checkmate <Lunatic.Fringe@The.Edge> - 2015-08-17 08:04 -0700
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( Checkmated checkmate ) "Rocky" <wookiee@att.net> - 2015-08-17 10:26 -0500
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( Checkmated checkmate ) "K Wills (Shill #3)" <compuelf@gmail.com> - 2015-08-17 16:43 -0500
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( to Sarah #2 ) "K Wills (Shill #3)" <compuelf@gmail.com> - 2015-08-17 16:43 -0500
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( to Sarah #2 ) Sarah Ehrett <ninety7gt@cox.net> - 2015-08-17 19:46 -0400
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( more 4 FNVWE ) Friendly Neighborhood Vote Wrangler Emeritus <FNVWe@altusenetkooks.xxx> - 2015-08-17 08:09 +0200
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( FNVWE Perimeter Walls ) "Rocky" <wookiee@att.net> - 2015-08-17 06:48 -0500
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( FNVWE Perimeter Walls ) Friendly Neighborhood Vote Wrangler Emeritus <FNVWe@altusenetkooks.xxx> - 2015-08-17 17:05 +0200
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( FNVWE credentials ) "Rocky" <wookiee@att.net> - 2015-08-17 10:23 -0500
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( FNVWE credentials ) Friendly Neighborhood Vote Wrangler Emeritus <FNVWe@altusenetkooks.xxx> - 2015-08-17 19:27 +0200
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( FNVWE is a complete idiot ) "Rocky" <wookiee@att.net> - 2015-08-17 12:45 -0500
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( FNVWE is a complete idiot ) Friendly Neighborhood Vote Wrangler Emeritus <FNVWe@altusenetkooks.xxx> - 2015-08-18 05:00 +0200
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( FNVWE has to subtract 14 ) "Rocky" <wookiee@att.net> - 2015-08-18 11:17 -0500
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( FNVWE has to subtract 14 ) jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-08-18 17:10 +0000
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( FNVWE has to subtract 14 ) "Bast" <fakename@nomail.invalid> - 2015-08-18 14:27 -0400
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( FNVWE has to subtract 14 ) jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-08-18 18:37 +0000
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( jim + seismographs ) "Rocky" <wookiee@att.net> - 2015-08-19 10:34 -0500
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( jim + seismographs ) Tony Dragon <tony.dragon@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-19 16:35 +0100
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( jim + seismographs ) Friendly Neighborhood Vote Wrangler Emeritus <FNVWe@altusenetkooks.xxx> - 2015-08-19 18:14 +0200
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( jim + seismographs ) jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-08-19 17:53 +0000
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( jim + seismographs ) "Rocky" <wookiee@att.net> - 2015-08-19 17:33 -0500
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( jim + seismographs ) Tony Dragon <tony.dragon@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-20 00:07 +0100
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( jim + seismographs ) "Bast" <fakename@nomail.invalid> - 2015-08-21 14:15 -0400
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( jim + seismographs ) Tony Dragon <tony.dragon@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-21 19:55 +0100
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( jim + seismographs ) "Rocky" <wookiee@att.net> - 2015-08-21 16:05 -0500
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( jim + seismographs ) "K Wills (Shill #3)" <compuelf@gmail.com> - 2015-08-21 16:17 -0500
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( jim + seismographs ) jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-08-21 21:31 +0000
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( jim + seismographs ) Tony Dragon <tony.dragon@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-21 23:51 +0100
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( jim + seismographs ) jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-08-19 23:07 +0000
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( FNVWE has to subtract 14 ) BDK <Control@Worldcontrol.com> - 2015-08-18 15:07 -0400
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( TVfolery ) "Rocky" <wookiee@att.net> - 2015-08-18 18:07 -0500
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( TVfolery ) jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-08-18 23:28 +0000
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( TVfolery ) "Bast" <fakename@nomail.invalid> - 2015-08-19 08:25 -0400
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( TVfolery ) jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-08-19 17:55 +0000
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( TVfolery ) "K Wills (Shill #3)" <compuelf@gmail.com> - 2015-08-19 18:05 -0500
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( TVfoolery ) "Rocky" <wookiee@att.net> - 2015-08-19 09:21 -0500
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( TVfoolery ) jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-08-19 17:57 +0000
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( FNVWE has to subtract 14 ) "Bast" <fakename@nomail.invalid> - 2015-08-19 08:07 -0400
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( FNVWE has to subtract 14 ) HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-19 08:25 -0400
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( FNVWE has to subtract 14 ) "Bast" <fakename@nomail.invalid> - 2015-08-19 09:46 -0400
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( FNVWE has to subtract 14 ) "Rocky" <wookiee@att.net> - 2015-08-19 09:15 -0500
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( FNVWE has to subtract 14 ) Tony Dragon <tony.dragon@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-19 16:37 +0100
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( FNVWE has to subtract 14 ) jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-08-19 17:59 +0000
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( FNVWE has to subtract 14 ) "K Wills (Shill #3)" <compuelf@gmail.com> - 2015-08-19 14:11 -0500
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( FNVWE has to subtract 14 ) "K Wills (Shill #3)" <compuelf@gmail.com> - 2015-08-19 18:05 -0500
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( FNVWE has to subtract 14 ) BDK <Control@Worldcontrol.com> - 2015-08-19 19:51 -0400
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( FNVWE has to subtract 14 ) "K Wills (Shill #3)" <compuelf@gmail.com> - 2015-08-19 04:06 -0500
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( FNVWE has to subtract 14 ) Friendly Neighborhood Vote Wrangler Emeritus <FNVWe@altusenetkooks.xxx> - 2015-08-19 04:16 +0200
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( FNVWE has to subtract 14 ) "Rocky" <wookiee@att.net> - 2015-08-19 08:32 -0500
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( FNVWE has to subtract 14 ) Friendly Neighborhood Vote Wrangler Emeritus <FNVWe@altusenetkooks.xxx> - 2015-08-19 17:35 +0200
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( FNVWE avoided the Perimeter Walls ) "Rocky" <wookiee@att.net> - 2015-08-17 14:36 -0500
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( FNVWE avoided the Perimeter Walls ) jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-08-17 20:58 +0000
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( FNVWE avoided the Perimeter Walls ) "Rocky" <wookiee@att.net> - 2015-08-17 16:17 -0500
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( FNVWE avoided the Perimeter Walls ) jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-08-17 23:00 +0000
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( FNVWE avoided the Perimeter Walls ) "K Wills (Shill #3)" <compuelf@gmail.com> - 2015-08-17 16:40 -0500
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( FNVWE avoided the Perimeter Walls ) Friendly Neighborhood Vote Wrangler Emeritus <FNVWe@altusenetkooks.xxx> - 2015-08-18 07:22 +0200
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( FNVWE avoided the Perimeter Walls ) Friendly Neighborhood Vote Wrangler Emeritus <FNVWe@altusenetkooks.xxx> - 2015-08-18 07:05 +0200
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... ( more 4 FNVWE ) "K Wills (Shill #3)" <compuelf@gmail.com> - 2015-08-17 04:17 -0500
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... (laughing at FNVWE) "Rocky" <wookiee@att.net> - 2015-08-16 09:14 -0500
Re: Here, Rocky... prove yourself wrong... (laughing at FNVWE) Friendly Neighborhood Vote Wrangler Emeritus <FNVWe@altusenetkooks.xxx> - 2015-08-16 21:17 +0200
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