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Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science.

Message-ID <55C591CD.41E8@ix.netcom.com> (permalink)
Date 2015-08-07 22:21 -0700
From The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com>
Newsgroups alt.atheism, rec.arts.sf.written, sci.physics, sci.physics.relativity
Subject Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science.
References (13 earlier) <55C44B14.3BF8@ix.netcom.com> <55C44CD8.3DA5@ix.netcom.com> <b6caedfb-a91d-4aaf-ad2d-4a47448672a3@googlegroups.com> <55C53D19.74FB@ix.netcom.com> <95cb9cfe-3b3a-4bbf-afac-5c9d3a6d2382@googlegroups.com>

Cross-posted to 4 groups.

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Kevrob wrote:
> 
> On Friday, August 7, 2015 at 7:19:45 PM UTC-4, The Starmaker wrote:
> > Kevrob wrote:
> > >
> > > On Friday, August 7, 2015 at 2:14:51 AM UTC-4, The Starmaker wrote:
> > > > The Starmaker wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > The Starmaker wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Attila < wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Thu, 06 Aug 2015 01:10:45 -0700, The Starmaker
> > > > > > > <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> in alt.atheism with message-id
> > > > > > > <55C31685.54A6@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Attila < wrote:
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> On Tue, 04 Aug 2015 15:02:34 -0500, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> in
> > > > > > > >> alt.atheism with message-id
> > > > > > > >> <9g62sat66jooq00mg9ro6fktj8qmg7stdi@4ax.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> >On Mon, 03 Aug 2015 17:56:09 -0700, talishi <talishi@example.net> wrote:
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >> >>On 08/03/2015 02:42 PM, duke wrote:
> > > > > > > >> >>> Prove the American War of Independence occurred.  Same difference.  No eye
> > > > > > > >> >>> witnesses to testify.  Just documents, accounts of others, paintings, artifacts,
> > > > > > > >> >>> etc.
> > > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > > >> >>And third party verification (ie France), unlike your gospels.
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >> >What 3rd party verification.  I have the same types of verification for Jesus
> > > > > > > >> >Christ - documents, accounts of others, paintings, artifacts, etc.
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> What do you have that has absolutely no connection, directly or
> > > > > > > >> indirectly, with your bible?  Direct verified accounts or 'paintings'
> > > > > > > >> by people who never heard of that bible or any person or organization
> > > > > > > >> connected to it?
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> What 'artifacts' what are independent of such sources?
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> Do you understand what 'independent' or 'verified' means?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >"Now, there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to
> > > > > > > >call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works--a teacher of such
> > > > > > > >men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of
> > > > > > > >the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ; and when
> > > > > > > >Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned
> > > > > > > >him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him,
> > > > > > > >for he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine
> > > > > > > >prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things
> > > > > > > >concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not
> > > > > > > >extinct at this day."
> > > > > > > >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It is the opinion of many scholars his writings were altered centuries
> > > > > > > ago to fit the necessary pattern.  There is no independent
> > > > > > > verification from any other sources supporting him.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm shocked.
> > > > >
> > > > > http://alivecampus.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/shocked_face.jpg
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > how about this guy?
> > > >
> > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus#Tacitus_on_Christ
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and
> > > > inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their
> > > > abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the
> > > > name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of
> > > > Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a
> > > > most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke
> > > > out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome,
> > > > where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find
> > > > their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made
> > > > of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense
> > > > multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as
> > > > of hatred against mankind. Mockery of every sort was added to their
> > > > deaths. Covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and
> > > > perished, or were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and
> > > > burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired."
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus#Tacitus_on_Christ
> > >
> > > GoTo the 1st para @
> > >
> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus
> > >
> > > Born circa 56 CE  Died 117 CE
> > >
> > > So, he was on the scene 23 years after the traditional death date for
> > > the Nazarene, 33 CE.  He wasn't a contemporary of Jesus.
> > >
> > > Thank you for playing.
> > >
> > > Kevin R
> >
> >
> > 23 years???
> >
> > The story of Jesus Christ...the new testament wasn't even writen until 50 years after Jesus Christ died.
> 
> So what.  We were talking about non-biblical verification that someone
> called "Jesus" or something close to it had lived and either founded a
> religion or had been the example for a religion founded by his followers.
> Tacitus wasn't alive when JC was, so he would only have heard about any
> Jewish Messiah after the fellow was said to have died.  He isn't, as the
> historians say, a primary source.  That's not to say he didn't encounter
> Christians in his lifetime.
> 
> Kevin R

Born circa 56 CE  Died 117 CE



Doesn't CE mean Before Christ?

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Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-07-31 04:00 -0400
  Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-07-31 07:08 -0400
    Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-08-01 07:29 -0400
  Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2015-07-31 10:17 -0600
    Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-08-01 07:32 -0400
  Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-07-31 16:38 -0500
    Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-08-01 07:32 -0400
      Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-08-02 09:56 -0500
        Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-02 11:27 -0400
          Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. talishi <talishi@example.net> - 2015-08-02 08:51 -0700
            Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. bilgat@m.nu - 2015-08-02 12:40 -0500
            Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-08-02 16:18 -0500
              Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. bilgat@m.nu - 2015-08-02 18:23 -0500
          Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-08-02 16:17 -0500
        Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. bilgat@m.nu - 2015-08-02 10:39 -0500
          Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-08-02 11:51 -0400
          Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-02 12:04 -0400
          Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2015-08-02 12:18 -0500
            Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. gilber34 <invalid@invalid.com> - 2015-08-02 14:01 -0500
              Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2015-08-02 15:05 -0500
              Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. bilgat@m.nu - 2015-08-02 16:12 -0500
              Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Don Martin <drdonmartin@comcast.net> - 2015-08-02 15:32 -0400
          Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-08-02 16:18 -0500
        Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2015-08-02 10:15 -0600
          Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Don Martin <drdonmartin@comcast.net> - 2015-08-02 14:02 -0400
          Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-08-02 16:19 -0500
          Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2015-08-03 03:11 -0500
        Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-08-03 09:04 -0400
          Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-08-03 16:42 -0500
            Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. bilgat@m.nu - 2015-08-03 18:39 -0500
              Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-08-04 15:01 -0500
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. bilgat@m.nu - 2015-08-04 15:36 -0500
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-08-05 13:55 -0500
            Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. talishi <talishi@example.net> - 2015-08-03 17:56 -0700
              Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-08-04 15:02 -0500
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. talishi <talishi@example.net> - 2015-08-04 18:54 -0700
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-08-05 13:57 -0500
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. talishi <talishi@example.net> - 2015-08-05 12:56 -0700
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-08-06 19:27 -0400
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. talishi <talishi@example.net> - 2015-08-06 17:44 -0700
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-07 05:23 -0400
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-08-07 16:46 -0500
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-08-06 05:04 -0400
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-08-07 16:49 -0500
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-08-08 04:12 -0400
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-08-08 13:17 -0500
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-08-09 04:48 -0400
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-08-09 09:41 -0500
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-08-10 05:11 -0400
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-08-11 12:51 -0500
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-08-12 03:19 -0400
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-08-05 04:44 -0400
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-08-05 13:59 -0500
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. "Tim" <me@rsabc.com> - 2015-08-06 04:57 -0400
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-08-07 16:50 -0500
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. "Tim" <me@rsabc.com> - 2015-08-08 06:37 -0400
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-08-06 05:06 -0400
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-08-07 16:51 -0500
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-08-08 04:19 -0400
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-08-08 13:19 -0500
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-08-09 04:54 -0400
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-08-09 09:46 -0500
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-08-10 05:15 -0400
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-08-11 12:53 -0500
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-08-12 03:15 -0400
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-08-06 01:10 -0700
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-08-06 20:42 -0400
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-08-06 22:28 -0700
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-08-06 23:07 -0700
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-08-06 23:14 -0700
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-08-06 23:45 -0700
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. bilgat@m.nu - 2015-08-07 09:18 -0500
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-08-07 05:16 -0400
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-08-07 16:19 -0700
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-08-07 22:21 -0700
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-08-07 22:26 -0700
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-08-08 09:46 -0700
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. talishi <talishi@example.net> - 2015-08-08 04:57 -0700
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2015-08-08 08:32 -0500
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-08-09 14:58 -0700
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-08-08 18:12 +0200
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-08-08 13:13 -0400
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2015-08-08 16:13 -0400
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-09 08:16 -0400
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-08-08 13:11 -0400
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2015-08-08 14:06 -0400
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2015-08-08 14:58 -0500
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-08-09 04:38 -0400
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-08-07 00:00 -0700
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-08-07 05:19 -0400
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-08-07 12:22 -0700
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. gilber34 <invalid@invalid.com> - 2015-08-07 15:42 -0500
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2015-08-07 15:48 -0500
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-08-08 04:26 -0400
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-08-08 09:42 -0700
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-08-09 04:58 -0400
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-08-09 12:59 -0700
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-08-10 05:21 -0400
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-08-11 12:54 -0500
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-08-09 13:14 -0700
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-08-07 16:53 -0500
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-08-08 04:31 -0400
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-08-08 13:20 -0500
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-08-09 05:00 -0400
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-08-09 09:47 -0500
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-08-10 05:22 -0400
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-08-11 12:55 -0500
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-08-12 03:17 -0400
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. "Tim" <me@rsabc.com> - 2015-08-10 06:33 -0400
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2015-08-10 04:48 -0700
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-08-11 12:56 -0500
            Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-08-04 05:16 -0400
              Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-08-04 15:03 -0500
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-08-05 04:46 -0400
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-08-05 14:00 -0500
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-08-06 05:07 -0400
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-08-07 16:53 -0500
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-08-08 04:35 -0400
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-08-08 13:20 -0500
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-08-09 05:00 -0400
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-08-09 09:48 -0500
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-08-10 05:23 -0400

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