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Re: What is OOP?

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On Fri, 2024-12-06 at 18:16 -0800, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> On 12/3/2024 4:44 PM, wij wrote:
> > On Tue, 2024-12-03 at 12:16 -0800, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> > > On 12/3/2024 2:38 AM, wij wrote:
> > > > On Mon, 2024-12-02 at 14:59 -0800, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> > > > > On 12/2/2024 12:49 AM, wij wrote:
> > > > > > On Sun, 2024-12-01 at 20:34 -0800, Tim Rentsch wrote:
> > > > > > > wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> writes:
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > In response to the question of the subject line...
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Just because a program is being written in a language that has
> > > > > > > functions doesn't mean that what is being done is functional
> > > > > > > programming.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Just because a program is being written in a language that has
> > > > > > > classes and objects doesn't mean that what is being done is
> > > > > > > object-oriented programming.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > More than anything else object-oriented programming is a mindset
> > > > > > > or a programming methodology.  It helps if the language being
> > > > > > > used supports classes, etc, but the methodology can be used even
> > > > > > > in languages that don't have them.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > A quote:
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > >        My guess is that object-oriented programming will be in the
> > > > > > >        1980s what structured programming was in the 1970s.
> > > > > > >        Everyone will be in favor of it.  Every manufacturer will
> > > > > > >        promote his products as supporting it.  Every manager will
> > > > > > >        pay lip service to it.  Every programmer will practice it
> > > > > > >        (differently).  And no one will know just what it is.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > That paragraph is taken from a paper written more than 40 years
> > > > > > > ago.  The prediction came true with a vengeance, even more than
> > > > > > > the author expected.  Most of what has been written about object
> > > > > > > oriented programming was done by people who didn't understand it.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Two more quotes, these from Alan Kay:
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > >        I invented the term "Object Oriented Programming," and C++
> > > > > > >        is not what I had in mind.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > >        Though Smalltalk's structure allows the technique now known
> > > > > > >        as data abstraction to be easily (and more generally)
> > > > > > >        employed, the entire thrust of its design has been to
> > > > > > >        supersede the concept of data and procedures entirely;  to
> > > > > > >        replace these with the more generally useful notions of
> > > > > > >        activity, communication, and inheritance.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Thanks for those information (I did not particularly study 'OOP').
> > > > > >    From my >20 years of practice, I would say the object+action model
> > > > > > works nearly perfectly. Particularly it is the same idea with
> > > > > > abstract algebra. IOW, OOP is programming abstract algebra for
> > > > > > general problems.
> > > > > > I recently read a book (translation version)
> > > > > > https://www.amazon.com/Mind-Motion-Action-Shapes-Thought/dp/046509306X
> > > > > > OO is probably also how our brain works. So, yes, we don't absolutely need OO
> > > > > > language to program in OO, OO is natural (thou C++ is very suitable. And, there
> > > > > > may be other kind of good programming model).
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Note: A point in 'the' inheritance theory of OO is seriously false.
> > > > > >          I can't say it right now, it is about inherited class has to delete
> > > > > >          inherited member.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Have you ever messed around with cohort scheduling? Not sure why I am
> > > > > thinking of that now after reading your response. Humm...
> > > > > 
> > > > > https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/tr-2001-39.pdf
> > > > 
> > > > Just like the reason libwy uses POSIX API, mostly, and does pretend it is not.
> > > > If you want to understand the basic programming objects, try POSIX thread first
> > > > (even just by reading the manual is helpful enough) not that from C++std library.
> > > > 
> > > > There are many books talk about POSIX threads in C. mess around those C codes, then
> > > > you get the real thing.
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > Fwiw, I used POSIX Threads for many years. Heck, I even used to converse
> > > with the Man himself... ;^) Dave Butenhof over on c.p.t, back in its
> > > glory days. He wrote an interesting book:
> > > 
> > > https://www.amazon.com/Programming-POSIX-Threads-David-Butenhof/dp/0201633922
> > > 
> > > It was fun talking to him. :^)
> > 
> > Yup, I remember those days, he was diligent answering all sorts of questions
> > about pthreading. In the same period, c++ was super busy.
> 
> :^D So you know the realm of those "good times" for sure!
> 
> 
> > > So, I know how to use POSIX, and PThreads to boot. Then, when C/C++11
> > > came out, well... I started to port some of my work over to it. They
> > > work well and are more standard than PThreads in a sense?
> > > 
> > > Fwiw, my pthread lib of choice over in the windows world was:
> > > 
> > > https://sourceware.org/pthreads-win32/
> > > 
> > > I remember back when I won a brand new SunFire t2000 server (before they
> > > were available for sale to the public) wrt the CoolThreads contest with
> > > my experimental vZoom project. I used PThreads on Solaris for that. fun
> > > times! :^D
> > 
> > That made me feel I was a bit awkward. OK, let's say it C++'s fault.
> > 
> 
> I need to find that old post over on c.p.t about a time when GCC sure 
> seemed to break a pthread_mutex_trylock function call, wrt its critical 
> section indeed.

If it was about Linux Thread (changed to NPTL), it was full of bugs.
libwy still contains old codes for Linux Thread not removed.
I now focus on using  process, and planning to use process instead of thread
for muti-tasking for the future (for the coming NPU, AI era, whatever).
Also thanks to decades of practice of those 'C-people', process is relatively
more mature than thread.

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What is OOP? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2024-12-02 01:17 +0800
  Re: What is OOP? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-12-01 10:43 -0800
    Re: What is OOP? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-12-01 10:49 -0800
  Re: What is OOP? Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2024-12-01 15:07 -0600
    Re: What is OOP? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-12-01 13:36 -0800
    Re: What is OOP? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-12-02 08:45 +0100
  Re: What is OOP? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-12-01 23:43 +0200
    Re: What is OOP? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2024-12-02 09:02 +0800
  Re: What is OOP? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-12-01 17:02 -0500
    Re: What is OOP? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2024-12-02 08:57 +0800
      Re: What is OOP? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-12-02 08:42 -0500
      Re: What is OOP? Isaac Ganoung <inventor500@vivaldi.net> - 2024-12-08 17:56 +0000
        Re: What is OOP? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2024-12-09 08:28 +0800
          Re: What is OOP? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2024-12-09 09:27 +0800
  Re: What is OOP? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-12-01 20:11 -0800
    Re: What is OOP? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2024-12-02 16:27 +0800
      Re: What is OOP? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2024-12-03 20:43 +0800
  Re: What is OOP? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-12-01 20:34 -0800
    Re: What is OOP? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-12-02 10:47 +0200
      Re: What is OOP? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-12-15 04:24 -0800
        Re: What is OOP? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-12-15 16:33 +0200
          Re: What is OOP? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-12-16 23:59 -0800
    Re: What is OOP? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2024-12-02 16:49 +0800
      Re: What is OOP? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-12-02 14:59 -0800
        Re: What is OOP? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2024-12-03 18:10 +0800
        Re: What is OOP? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2024-12-03 18:38 +0800
          Re: What is OOP? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-12-03 12:16 -0800
            Re: What is OOP? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2024-12-04 08:44 +0800
              Re: What is OOP? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-12-06 18:16 -0800
                Re: What is OOP? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2024-12-08 01:01 +0800
                Re: What is OOP? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-12-07 10:46 -0800
              Re: What is OOP? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-12-19 21:15 -0800
                Re: What is OOP? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-12-19 21:16 -0800
                Re: What is OOP? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-12-19 21:17 -0800
                Re: What is OOP? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-12-23 15:59 -0800
    Re: What is OOP? --- The most important aspect of OOP olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-12-06 20:40 -0600
      Re: What is OOP? --- The most important aspect of OOP Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-12-06 21:45 -0500
        Re: What is OOP? --- The most important aspect of OOP olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-12-07 14:07 -0600
        Re: What is OOP? --- The most important aspect of OOP Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-12-09 09:51 -0800
          Re: What is OOP? --- The most important aspect of OOP Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-12-09 17:43 -0800
        Re: What is OOP? --- The most important aspect of OOP Mr Flibble <leigh@i42.co.uk> - 2025-03-01 21:10 +0000
      Re: What is OOP? --- The most important aspect of OOP wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2024-12-08 00:32 +0800
  Re: What is OOP? Rosario19 <Ros@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-04 13:14 +0100
    Re: What is OOP? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2024-12-04 22:31 +0800
    Re: What is OOP? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2024-12-19 10:32 +0800
    Re: What is OOP? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-03-17 10:17 -0700
      Re: What is OOP? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-03-19 04:58 +0800
        Re: What is OOP? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-03-20 23:04 +0800
      Re: What is OOP? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-03-20 17:37 +0200
        Re: What is OOP? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-03-29 13:33 -0700
      Re: What is OOP? Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2025-03-27 18:23 +0000
        Re: What is OOP? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-03-29 11:12 +0800
          Re: What is OOP? Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2025-03-29 05:07 +0000
          Re: What is OOP? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-03-29 20:39 +0300
            Re: What is OOP? Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2025-03-29 19:03 +0000
        Re: What is OOP? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-03-29 13:36 -0700
  Re: What is OOP? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-09-28 16:02 +0800

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