Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]
Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #430836
| From | Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | sci.physics.relativity |
| Subject | Re: Relativity and physical reality |
| Date | 2017-09-02 19:30 +0200 |
| Organization | PointedEars Software (PES) |
| Message-ID | <4012327.8F6SAcFxjW@PointedEars.de> (permalink) |
| References | (4 earlier) <mcudnQmJeclXxDXEnZ2dnUU7_8zNnZ2d@giganews.com> <2742796.CbtlEUcBR6@PointedEars.de> <324f2ac1-2077-06f2-88ab-753cc8b937d2@sbcglobal.net> <2357526.k3LOHGUjKi@PointedEars.de> <rOSdnXXpZZikYzTEnZ2dnUU7_83NnZ2d@giganews.com> |
Tom Roberts wrote:
> On 9/1/17 9/1/17 1:10 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>> Tom Roberts wrote:
>>> When one says "that clock is affected and ticks slowly", one is talking
>>> about THE CLOCK AND NOTHING ELSE.
>> We can only know about the state of the clock because *we observe the
>> clock* (in some way).
>
> BUT WE DON'T DO THAT!!!! […]
Your keyboard is b0rked.
> In the GPS we NEVER observe the satellite clocks, we only observe SIGNALS
> from them.
That does not change the fact that we know with great confidence what
“happens the clocks” – from *different* perspectives –, knowing how they
are constructed, and were adjusted before being sent into the terrestrial
orbit, and that they are synchronized with clocks on the ground daily, to
fulfill their purpose in that orbit.
> How can you possibly justify IGNORING those signals????
I am not.
In any case, I think that you, being a particle physicist, are particularly
well aware that observing an object does not need to mean to see that object
with one’s own eyes, but means *receiving information* about the state of
the (assumed) object in *any* way. For that, what I said holds. (You are
just too hung up on the particular example to see that. If that helps,
modify in your mind the GPS satellite to additionally send video of the
display of the clock to the ground, and reconsider.)
AISB, for the reasons that I have given, it is a fallacy, and _not_ backed
up by relativity, to assume otherwise – including to assume that for all
observers an object has only one state, the one observed in its rest
frame –, as you continue to do:
>> Who is to say which observer is correct about the current state of the
>> clock?
>>
>> Answer: Nobody.
>
> Not true. An observer on the satellite could do so. Equivalently, an
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> instrument on the satellite could do so. […]
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I am sorry if you cannot see that, but you can keep your unfounded/badly
founded, impolite berating to yourself. It is not the one who shouts the
loudest who is right, but who presents the better argument. Evidently you
have not even thought about my argument, you just continue your strawman
fallacies (arguing against positions that I simply did not take).
--
PointedEars
Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.
Back to sci.physics.relativity | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread
Why synchronize atomic clocks? gehan.ameresekere@gmail.com - 2017-08-28 04:36 -0700
Re: Why synchronize atomic clocks? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-08-28 05:02 -0700
Re: Why synchronize atomic clocks? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-08-31 16:03 +0000
Re: Why synchronize atomic clocks? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-08-31 21:51 +0200
Re: Why synchronize atomic clocks? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-09-01 01:26 -0700
Re: Why synchronize atomic clocks? Rafael Valls Hidalgo-Gato <rvalls162@gmail.com> - 2017-08-28 07:16 -0700
Re: Why synchronize atomic clocks? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-08-29 11:45 -0500
Re: Why synchronize atomic clocks? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-08-30 00:54 +0200
Re: Why synchronize atomic clocks? Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2017-08-29 16:31 -0700
Re: Why synchronize atomic clocks? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-08-29 19:38 -0700
Re: Why synchronize atomic clocks? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-08-31 14:34 -0700
Re: Why synchronize atomic clocks? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-09-01 12:45 -0700
Re: Why synchronize atomic clocks? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-08-30 05:47 +0200
Re: Why synchronize atomic clocks? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-08-31 13:47 -0500
Re: Why synchronize atomic clocks? Bídníkùm Laterá <bila@wehia.ui> - 2017-08-31 20:12 +0000
Re: Why synchronize atomic clocks? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-09-01 04:04 +0200
Re: Why synchronize atomic clocks? Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2017-08-31 21:01 -0700
Re: Why synchronize atomic clocks? Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2017-09-01 02:12 -0700
Re: Why synchronize atomic clocks? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-09-01 04:17 -0700
Re: Why synchronize atomic clocks? xxein1x1@gmail.com - 2017-08-31 21:34 -0700
Re: Why synchronize atomic clocks? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-09-01 11:41 -0500
Re: Why synchronize atomic clocks? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-09-01 11:17 -0500
Re: Why synchronize atomic clocks? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-09-01 09:43 -0700
Relativity and physical reality (was: Why synchronize atomic clocks?) Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-09-01 20:10 +0200
Re: Relativity and physical reality (was: Why synchronize atomic clocks?) Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2017-09-01 12:30 -0700
Re: Relativity and physical reality (was: Why synchronize atomic clocks?) Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-09-02 01:29 +0200
Re: Relativity and physical reality (was: Why synchronize atomic clocks?) Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2017-09-01 16:52 -0700
Re: Relativity and physical reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-09-02 02:27 +0200
Re: Relativity and physical reality Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2017-09-02 02:22 -0700
Re: Relativity and physical reality Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-09-01 19:41 -0500
Re: Relativity and physical reality mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-09-02 01:01 -0700
Re: Relativity and physical reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-09-02 19:30 +0200
Re: Why synchronize atomic clocks? Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2017-09-02 22:23 -0700
Re: Why synchronize atomic clocks? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-09-03 02:35 -0700
Re: Why synchronize atomic clocks? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-08-30 07:28 -0700
Re: Why synchronize atomic clocks? Rafael Valls Hidalgo-Gato <rvalls162@gmail.com> - 2017-08-30 09:47 -0700
Re: Why synchronize atomic clocks? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-08-31 00:03 +0200
Re: Why synchronize atomic clocks? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-08-31 00:22 +0200
Re: Why synchronize atomic clocks? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-08-30 17:58 -0500
Re: Why synchronize atomic clocks? Rafael Valls Hidalgo-Gato <rvalls162@gmail.com> - 2017-08-31 13:56 -0700
Re: Why synchronize atomic clocks? gehan.ameresekere@gmail.com - 2017-08-31 23:17 -0700
Re: Why synchronize atomic clocks? Rafael Valls Hidalgo-Gato <rvalls162@gmail.com> - 2017-09-01 08:45 -0700
Re: Why synchronize atomic clocks? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-09-01 11:54 -0500
Re: Why synchronize atomic clocks? Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-09-01 12:39 -0700
Re: Why synchronize atomic clocks? Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2017-09-01 12:51 -0700
Re: Why synchronize atomic clocks? gehan.ameresekere@gmail.com - 2017-09-04 19:26 -0700
Re: Why synchronize atomic clocks? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-09-05 11:06 -0500
Re: Why synchronize atomic clocks? gehan.ameresekere@gmail.com - 2017-09-05 22:53 -0700
Re: Why synchronize atomic clocks? Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2017-09-06 05:25 -0700
Re: Why synchronize atomic clocks? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-09-06 05:40 -0700
Re: Why synchronize atomic clocks? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-09-06 17:22 -0500
Re: Why synchronize atomic clocks? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-09-01 01:24 -0700
Re: Why synchronize atomic clocks? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-06 06:42 -0700
Re: Why synchronize atomic clocks? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-09-06 07:04 -0700
Re: Why synchronize atomic clocks? "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2017-08-28 07:49 -0700
Re: Why synchronize atomic clocks? Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-08-28 08:12 -0700
Re: Why synchronize atomic clocks? Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-08-28 09:11 -0700
Re: Why synchronize atomic clocks? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-08-28 11:15 -0500
Re: Why synchronize atomic clocks? Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-08-28 09:44 -0700
Re: Why synchronize atomic clocks? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-08-28 11:52 -0500
Re: Why synchronize atomic clocks? gehan.ameresekere@gmail.com - 2017-08-28 23:59 -0700
Re: Why synchronize atomic clocks? Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-09-01 14:01 -0700
Re: Why synchronize atomic clocks? Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not> - 2017-09-02 00:20 +0200
Re: Why synchronize atomic clocks? Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not> - 2017-09-02 00:21 +0200
Re: Why synchronize atomic clocks? Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2017-08-29 17:11 +1000
Re: Why synchronize atomic clocks? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-08-29 18:38 -0500
Re: Why synchronize atomic clocks? gehan.ameresekere@gmail.com - 2017-08-31 23:38 -0700
Re: Why synchronize atomic clocks? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-09-01 20:09 -0500
csiph-web