Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]


Groups > comp.sys.mac.advocacy > #137579

Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing

From "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Newsgroups comp.sys.mac.advocacy, alt.comp.os.windows-10, alt.comp.os.windows-11
Subject Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing
Date 2025-10-08 11:48 +0200
Message-ID <3kohrlxffi.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> (permalink)
References (3 earlier) <slrn10e6bct.2l7ki.lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> <10bvfri$1q6o$1@dont-email.me> <10bvua3$65if$1@dont-email.me> <ltocrlxipn.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> <10c5avf$1gd4v$1@dont-email.me>

Cross-posted to 3 groups.

Show all headers | View raw


On 2025-10-08 11:30, Daniel70 wrote:
> On 6/10/2025 11:22 pm, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 2025-10-06 10:23, Daniel70 wrote:
>>> On 6/10/2025 3:16 pm, Alan wrote:
>>>> On 2025-10-05 19:46, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>>>>> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>>> Alan>>> If I do a similar thing on macOS, it's done almost before 
>>>>> the files
>>>>> Alan>>> have finished the move
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2025-10-01 13:19, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>>> Carlos>> Not if it does content indexing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Alan> If a file has already BEEN indexed for its content...
>>>>> Alan> ...why would simply moving it to a new location require it to 
>>>>> be re-read?
>>>>> Alan> Did its content magically change just because you moved it?
>>>>> Alan> No.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is the difference between indexing on demand versus CONTINUOUSLY
>>>>> MAINTAINING an index.
>>>>
>>>> I'm sorry, but you're wrong.
>>>>
>>>> You index a file so that you can find it based on metadata and content.
>>>>
>>>> When a search happens, the INDEX gets searched the location of the 
>>>> file is returned.
>>>>
>>>> The location of the file is ONE single piece of information in the 
>>>> indexing system about the file.
>>>>
>>>> Move the file and all you need to do is update that one piece of 
>>>> information.
>>>>
>>>> Nothing else has changed: not it's name, not it's date modified or 
>>>> last opened, not it's content.
>>>>
>>>> So there is no need to re-read the file.
>>>
>>> How is your system supposed to know that the contents of the "new" 
>>> "moved" file is *EXACTLY* the same as the original file (never had an 
>>> individual Byte/Bit of RAM die on you??) .... unless it still HAS the 
>>> "original" file to compare the new file too??
>>
>> Two possibilities.
>>
>>    a) There is a service, or daemon, that is tracking all move 
>> operations (it must be connected to the system libraries that do the 
>> moves). Ie, the kernel is designed to track moves and inform some 
>> higher level layer about this. Thus the indexer is told that a file 
>> moved location.
>>
>>    b) The indexer does some fast checking of the file (name, 
>> attributes, etc) and if it is the same, it assumes the file has moved. 
>> Maybe verification is delayed.
>>
> So are you, Carlos, suggesting that, at the time of the move/copy, the 
> OS does not check that what ends up at the new/final location is the 
> same as what was in the old/original location??

If it is an move via hardlink operation, then as the data sectors are 
not touched, only the metadata, the data is guaranteed to be the same.

If it is copy-and-delete operation, the system does not do an automated 
check that what is actually written is the same data.

However, the userland program doing the operation can do a verify before 
delete.

> 
> If that *IS* the case, I hope no-one EVER does a Defrag!! EVER!!

Not related, either. The application doing the defrag can do a verify.


In Linux, there are filesystems that store a checksum of files in the 
metadata, so that integrity can be verified. It is not the default.


-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

Back to comp.sys.mac.advocacy | Previous | NextPrevious in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread


Thread

It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-08-09 16:30 -0700
  Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Hank Rogers <Hank@nospam.invalid> - 2025-08-09 18:55 -0500
    Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-08-09 17:08 -0700
      Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Hank Rogers <invalid@nospam.com> - 2025-08-10 03:22 +0000
        Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-08-09 23:52 -0400
          Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing "David B." <BD@hotmail.co.uk> - 2025-08-10 09:54 +0100
  Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-08-09 23:28 -0400
  Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2025-08-10 12:34 +0800
    Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-08-10 11:25 -0400
      Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-08-10 12:37 -0700
        Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-08-10 19:46 -0400
          Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-08-10 17:00 -0700
            Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-08-11 00:04 -0400
              Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-08-11 06:13 +0000
                Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Hank Rogers <invalid@nospam.com> - 2025-08-11 06:23 +0000
                Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-08-11 11:26 -0700
                Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-08-12 01:15 -0400
                Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-08-12 08:54 -0700
                Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-08-12 13:41 -0400
                Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-08-12 10:54 -0700
                Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Tom Elam <thomas.e.elam@gmail.com> - 2025-10-01 14:56 -0400
                Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-10-01 14:08 -0700
              Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-08-11 10:57 -0700
                Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-08-12 08:52 -0700
      Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2025-08-11 20:22 +0800
        Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-08-11 19:16 +0000
          Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-08-11 17:03 -0700
          Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2025-08-12 12:36 +0800
    Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> - 2025-10-06 15:49 +0100
  Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com> - 2025-08-10 18:33 -0400
    Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-08-11 02:12 -0400
      Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-08-11 11:25 -0700
        Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-08-11 18:02 -0400
          Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-08-11 17:01 -0700
            Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-08-12 01:24 -0400
              Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-08-12 08:49 -0700
              Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-08-12 17:10 +0000
          Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-08-12 08:55 -0700
  Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Tom Elam <thomas.e.elam@gmail.com> - 2025-08-17 16:03 -0400
    Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-08-17 18:15 -0400
  Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-10-01 22:19 +0200
    Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-10-01 14:18 -0700
    Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-10-05 15:01 -0700
      Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-10-06 02:46 +0000
        Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-10-05 21:16 -0700
          Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2025-10-06 19:23 +1100
            Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing MikeS <MikeS@fred.com> - 2025-10-06 09:56 +0100
              Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2025-10-06 20:54 +1100
                Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> - 2025-10-06 15:59 +0100
                Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-10-06 22:35 +0200
                Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-10-06 13:53 -0700
                Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2025-10-08 20:12 +1100
                Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-10-08 08:18 -0700
                Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-10-06 08:59 -0700
                Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2025-10-08 20:18 +1100
                Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2025-10-08 11:16 +0100
                Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing MikeS <MikeS@fred.com> - 2025-10-06 17:28 +0100
                Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-10-06 09:33 -0700
                Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2025-10-08 20:23 +1100
                Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-10-08 08:20 -0700
            Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-10-06 14:22 +0200
              Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-10-06 09:00 -0700
              Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2025-10-08 20:30 +1100
                Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-10-08 11:48 +0200
                Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2025-10-08 11:25 +0100
                Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-10-08 08:22 -0700
                Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-10-08 08:21 -0700
                Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-10-08 08:20 -0700
            Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-10-06 08:58 -0700
              Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-10-06 22:44 +0200
                Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-10-06 13:56 -0700
                Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-10-06 23:22 +0200
                Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-10-06 16:51 -0700
              Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2025-10-08 20:35 +1100
                Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2025-10-08 11:38 +0100
                Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-10-08 08:23 -0700
          Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-10-06 04:52 -0400
          Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-10-06 14:17 +0200
            Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-10-06 09:12 -0700
              Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-10-06 22:47 +0200
                Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-10-06 14:12 -0700
                Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-10-06 23:25 +0200
                Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-10-06 16:55 -0700
                Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2025-10-08 21:21 +1100
                Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-10-08 08:24 -0700
  Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> - 2025-10-06 15:45 +0100
    Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-10-06 09:13 -0700
      Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> - 2025-10-06 17:48 +0100
        Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-10-06 10:08 -0700
    Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-10-06 19:51 -0400
      Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-10-06 17:27 -0700
        Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-10-06 21:47 -0400
          Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-10-06 22:13 -0700
          Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2025-10-08 22:01 +1100
            Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-10-08 10:45 -0400
              Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-10-08 08:25 -0700

csiph-web