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Groups > comp.sys.mac.system > #61497

Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped

From nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Newsgroups comp.sys.mac.system
Subject Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped
Date 2014-06-28 16:10 -0400
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <280620141610534318%nospam@nospam.invalid> (permalink)
References (5 earlier) <260620141222150148%nospam@nospam.invalid> <c133grFd1hhU1@mid.individual.net> <lohr2k$i1j$1@reader2.panix.com> <260620142203433390%nospam@nospam.invalid> <53ad0829$0$50659$c3e8da3$92d0a893@news.astraweb.com>

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In article <53ad0829$0$50659$c3e8da3$92d0a893@news.astraweb.com>, JF
Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> > it does, because that explains what a software bug *is* and focus
> > stealing fits the definition perfectly. therefore, it's a bug.
> 
> After Snow Leopard, Apple reverse the scrolling direction. After decades
> of working one way, the new OS was no longer behaving as "expected".
> 
> This was not a bug, it was a design decision by Apple.

again, that's something the user can easily change if they don't like
the new way. some do and some don't.

that's not a bug.

> Similarly, the design of OS-X allows applications to steal focus in a
> way that is unexpected. This is a design decision, not a bug.

assume for the moment that's true, then that decision needs to be
revisited and changed.

> In other words, if you file a bug complaint, the response would be
> "works as designed, this is not a bug".

that's their standard cop-out answer for anything they don't feel like
fixing.

for instance, they said the same thing for finder reporting incorrect
file and folder sizes. who the hell intentionally designs something to
report the *wrong* size? 

> If you file it as a UI improvement request, Apple will reply that they
> can't change this design feature because apps are written to expect this
> capability to be available.

apps are not designed so that another app can steal focus and an app
can't tell the focus was stolen versus an intentional action by the
user anyway.

> You would need to file a UI improvement request that would add a system
> setting to disregard focus switching requests, unless current focus is
> from a parent process or window.
> 
> So when you launch Pages from the Dock, it is allowed to steal focus if
> the current process is still Dock, but not if , in the meantime, you
> switched to Firefox (which would not be a parent of Pages).

launching an app is not the problem. obviously, launching an app
changes focus.

the problem is when the user puts an app in the background because they
want to do something *else*, but then it decides to bring itself
forward and either obscure what the user is doing or obscure it *and*
grab keystrokes (there are actually two ways this bug manifests itself)
and in both cases, there is a risk of data loss. 

data loss is unacceptable and it's frightening to see how many people
are trying to justify it.

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Thread

Unwanted Focus switches Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-06-19 11:18 -0400
  Re: Unwanted Focus switches J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2014-06-19 11:25 -0400
    Re: Unwanted Focus switches Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-06-19 11:31 -0400
      Re: Unwanted Focus switches J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2014-06-19 11:44 -0400
  Re: Unwanted Focus switches nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-19 11:51 -0400
    Re: Unwanted Focus switches Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-06-19 12:24 -0400
      Re: Unwanted Focus switches nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-19 12:49 -0400
        Re: Unwanted Focus switches Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-06-19 17:10 +0000
          Re: Unwanted Focus switches nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-19 13:22 -0400
            Re: Unwanted Focus switches Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-06-19 17:39 +0000
              Re: Unwanted Focus switches nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-19 17:50 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-06-19 22:24 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-19 19:32 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-06-20 00:08 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-19 21:56 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2014-06-19 21:59 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2014-06-20 12:05 +1000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-06-20 16:27 +0000
              Re: Unwanted Focus switches John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2014-06-20 00:15 +0100
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-06-20 00:00 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches billy@MIX.COM - 2014-06-20 00:16 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2014-06-20 22:03 +0100
    Re: Unwanted Focus switches John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2014-06-20 00:23 +0100
      Re: Unwanted Focus switches Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-06-20 00:07 +0000
        Re: Unwanted Focus switches nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-19 21:56 -0400
        Re: Unwanted Focus switches JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-06-19 23:18 -0400
        Re: Unwanted Focus switches Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-06-20 07:49 -0400
          Re: Unwanted Focus switches Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-06-20 16:26 +0000
            Re: Unwanted Focus switches JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-06-20 15:10 -0400
              Re: Unwanted Focus switches Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-06-20 20:01 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-06-20 16:14 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-06-20 20:20 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2014-06-20 16:53 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-06-20 22:16 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-06-20 22:54 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-06-21 04:41 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-06-21 04:46 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2014-06-20 16:51 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-06-20 22:05 +0000
            Re: Unwanted Focus switches Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-06-21 08:33 -0400
              Re: Unwanted Focus switches billy@MIX.COM - 2014-06-21 16:48 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches billy@MIX.COM - 2014-06-21 17:02 +0000
      Re: Unwanted Focus switches Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-06-21 08:27 +0200
        Re: Unwanted Focus switches Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-06-21 17:02 +0000
          Re: Unwanted Focus switches Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-06-21 19:39 +0200
  Re: Unwanted Focus switches JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-06-19 12:44 -0400
    Re: Unwanted Focus switches Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-06-20 09:28 +1200
      Re: Unwanted Focus switches nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-19 17:50 -0400
        Re: Unwanted Focus switches Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-06-20 09:27 -0700
          Re: Unwanted Focus switches nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-20 13:17 -0400
          Re: Unwanted Focus switches Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-06-21 08:30 +0200
            Re: Unwanted Focus switches JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-06-21 15:12 -0400
      Re: Unwanted Focus switches billy@MIX.COM - 2014-06-19 23:47 +0000
        Re: Unwanted Focus switches nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-19 20:00 -0400
          Re: Unwanted Focus switches billy@MIX.COM - 2014-06-20 17:09 +0000
            Re: Unwanted Focus switches nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-20 13:17 -0400
            Re: Unwanted Focus switches Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-06-21 08:39 +0200
        Re: Unwanted Focus switches Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-06-21 08:32 +0200
  Re: Unwanted Focus switches Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-06-19 18:20 +0000
  Re: Unwanted Focus switches Martin Frost me at invalid stanford daht edu <nospam@stanford.edu.invalid> - 2014-06-19 18:29 -0700
    Re: Unwanted Focus switches Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2014-06-19 21:54 -0400
      Re: Unwanted Focus switches Martin Frost me at invalid stanford daht edu <nospam@stanford.edu.invalid> - 2014-06-20 02:29 -0700
        Re: Unwanted Focus switches Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-06-20 16:28 +0000
          Re: Unwanted Focus switches nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-20 13:17 -0400
            Re: Unwanted Focus switches Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-06-20 19:34 +0000
              Re: Unwanted Focus switches nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-20 15:59 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-06-20 20:06 +0000
        Re: Unwanted Focus switches Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-06-21 08:26 -0400
    Re: Unwanted Focus switches Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-06-20 07:52 -0400
      Re: Unwanted Focus switches JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-06-20 15:05 -0400
        Re: Unwanted Focus switches Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2014-06-20 16:48 -0400
        Re: Unwanted Focus switches Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-06-21 08:57 +0200
        Re: Unwanted Focus switches Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-06-21 08:45 -0400
      Re: Unwanted Focus switches Martin Frost me at invalid stanford daht edu <nospam@stanford.edu.invalid> - 2014-06-20 18:08 -0700
        Re: Unwanted Focus switches Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-06-21 09:12 +0200
  Re: Unwanted Focus switches Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-06-20 09:27 -0700
    Re: Unwanted Focus switches Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-06-22 10:36 -0400
      Re: Unwanted Focus switches billy@MIX.COM - 2014-06-22 16:20 +0000
        Re: Unwanted Focus switches Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-06-22 17:22 -0400
      Re: Unwanted Focus switches Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-06-22 20:24 +0000
        Re: Unwanted Focus switches Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-06-22 17:24 -0400
          Re: Unwanted Focus switches Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-06-22 23:15 +0000
            Re: Unwanted Focus switches Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-06-23 08:39 -0400
          Re: Unwanted Focus switches Joe Wolf Dee <joedid@email.com> - 2014-06-23 08:00 -0400
            Re: Unwanted Focus switches Joe Wolf Dee <joedid@email.com> - 2014-06-23 08:09 -0400
              Re: Unwanted Focus switches Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-06-23 08:43 -0400
              Re: Unwanted Focus switches Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-06-24 15:35 +0200
            Re: Unwanted Focus switches Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-06-23 08:42 -0400
              Re: Unwanted Focus switches Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-06-23 14:41 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-06-24 07:46 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-06-24 12:06 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-06-24 18:40 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-06-25 03:16 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-06-25 07:19 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-06-25 21:16 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-06-26 06:52 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-06-26 15:59 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-06-26 17:25 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-06-26 22:45 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-06-26 20:47 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-06-27 01:50 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-06-27 06:43 -0400
  Re: Unwanted Focus switches Joe Wolf Dee <joedid@email.com> - 2014-06-20 17:50 -0400
    Re: Unwanted Focus switches Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-06-21 09:15 +0200
    Re: Unwanted Focus switches Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-06-21 09:03 -0400
  Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-06-25 07:21 -0400
    Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped Joe Wolf Dee <joedid@email.com> - 2014-06-25 07:41 -0400
    Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-06-25 17:25 +0000
      Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2014-06-25 18:34 +0100
      Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-06-25 14:51 -0400
        Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-25 15:04 -0400
        Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-06-25 19:55 +0000
      Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-25 15:04 -0400
        Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-06-25 15:32 -0400
          Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-26 12:22 -0400
        Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-06-25 20:02 +0000
          Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-26 12:22 -0400
            Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-06-26 17:27 +0000
              Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped billy@MIX.COM - 2014-06-26 19:08 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-26 22:03 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped billy@MIX.COM - 2014-06-27 04:41 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-06-27 04:48 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped billy@MIX.COM - 2014-06-27 08:20 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-06-27 22:04 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-06-27 06:36 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-28 16:10 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped billy@MIX.COM - 2014-06-29 10:34 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-06-29 15:11 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-06-27 01:59 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped billy@MIX.COM - 2014-06-27 08:27 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-28 16:10 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-06-27 07:59 -0700
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-06-27 22:08 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-28 16:11 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-06-28 22:22 -0700
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-06-29 14:46 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-06-29 13:01 -0700
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-06-29 20:36 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-06-29 13:46 -0700
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-06-29 23:13 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped billy@MIX.COM - 2014-06-29 21:54 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-06-29 21:40 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped billy@MIX.COM - 2014-06-30 02:12 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-06-30 02:27 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-06-30 13:52 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped billy@MIX.COM - 2014-06-30 19:51 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-06-30 16:07 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-07-01 02:52 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped billy@MIX.COM - 2014-07-01 15:08 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-07-01 13:16 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-07-01 08:19 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped billy@MIX.COM - 2014-07-01 15:12 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-28 16:10 -0400
              Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-26 22:03 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-06-27 04:19 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-28 16:10 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-06-28 20:35 +0000
            Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-06-26 14:42 -0400
              Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-26 22:03 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2014-06-27 18:26 +1000

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