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Groups > comp.sys.mac.system > #61500

Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped

From Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Newsgroups comp.sys.mac.system
Subject Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped
Date 2014-06-28 20:35 +0000
Organization People for the Ethical Treatment of Pirates
Message-ID <c18n8vFi882U1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References (5 earlier) <260620141222150148%nospam@nospam.invalid> <c133grFd1hhU1@mid.individual.net> <260620142203393191%nospam@nospam.invalid> <c149nfFkfrrU1@mid.individual.net> <280620141610504107%nospam@nospam.invalid>

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On 2014-06-28, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <c149nfFkfrrU1@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger
><jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> >
>> >> >> > focus stealing can still occur whether or not not google
>> >> >> > drive is there.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > it can happen with a variety of apps, commonly safari and
>> >> >> > itunes, but also many others.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > it is *not* just google drive nor is it caused by google
>> >> >> > drive and removing google drive will not eliminate the
>> >> >> > problem because it's in the system itself.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > it is without question, a bug in os x and it did not exist in
>> >> >> > mac os 9 and earlier.
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> Certainly not. It may be a difference in design between OS 9
>> >> >> and OS X, but that does not magically make it a bug - no matter
>> >> >> how many times you repeat the lie. In all likelihood, Apple
>> >> >> made a conscious decision regarding this difference in design,
>> >> >> and problem with good reasons.  Whether it is a good design
>> >> >> decision is another discussion, and can be debated; but your
>> >> >> claim that this is a longstanding bug in OS X is still absent
>> >> >> of a shred of evidence.
>> >> >
>> >> > where's your evidence that it *isn't* a bug? 
>> >> 
>> >> Since you made the claim that it is a bug, the burden of proof
>> >> rests on your shoulders.
>> >
>> > which i did, and more than once.
>> 
>> Saying it doesn't magically make it true. So far you have not given a
>> shred of evidence proving your claim.
>
> saying it doesn't doesn't magically make it false.

Now you're just being silly.

> i have explained why it's a bug.

No, not sufficiently. In particular, you have provided exactly zero
artifacts showing an authoritative source (namely Apple, since they make
the operating system) claiming this is a bug in OS X.

> it's now your turn to explain why it isn't a bug.

You are still grappling with understanding the concept of burden of
proof. Since *you* made the claim that this is a big in OS X, the burden
is on *you* to prove your claim. The burden is not on the rest of the
human population to prove that you are right or wrong - that is strictly
*your* job. Until such time, the rest of us will naturally assume you
are neither right or wrong, but are simply talking out of your ass.

> simply saying so isn't doesn't make it not a bug. 

You are the one claiming it is a bug. Back it up with some evidence,
simple. I really don't know how much more clear it can be. You just don't
seem to get this thing called logic.

>> > it's now your turn to explain why it *isn't* a bug and why focus
>> > stealing is a useful feature.
>> >
>> > since you refuse to do that, it is a bug.
>> 
>> Since I made no claims, I have nothing to prove. Review the concept of
>> "burden of proof" and try to read for comprehension this time.
>
> if you have nothing to prove, ten you accept my definition and agree
> it's a bug.

Not until you prove your assertion.

I'm not holding my breath. This is typical behavior for you. And if
history is any indication, you will hold steadfast to your opinion all
the while claiming it is fact without offering a single shred of proof.
In the end, you'll wander away probably feeling confident that you
argued your empty point successfully, while those who can actually
follow simple logic will note your absurdity for their next encounter
with you.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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Thread

Unwanted Focus switches Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-06-19 11:18 -0400
  Re: Unwanted Focus switches J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2014-06-19 11:25 -0400
    Re: Unwanted Focus switches Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-06-19 11:31 -0400
      Re: Unwanted Focus switches J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2014-06-19 11:44 -0400
  Re: Unwanted Focus switches nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-19 11:51 -0400
    Re: Unwanted Focus switches Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-06-19 12:24 -0400
      Re: Unwanted Focus switches nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-19 12:49 -0400
        Re: Unwanted Focus switches Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-06-19 17:10 +0000
          Re: Unwanted Focus switches nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-19 13:22 -0400
            Re: Unwanted Focus switches Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-06-19 17:39 +0000
              Re: Unwanted Focus switches nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-19 17:50 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-06-19 22:24 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-19 19:32 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-06-20 00:08 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-19 21:56 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2014-06-19 21:59 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2014-06-20 12:05 +1000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-06-20 16:27 +0000
              Re: Unwanted Focus switches John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2014-06-20 00:15 +0100
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-06-20 00:00 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches billy@MIX.COM - 2014-06-20 00:16 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2014-06-20 22:03 +0100
    Re: Unwanted Focus switches John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2014-06-20 00:23 +0100
      Re: Unwanted Focus switches Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-06-20 00:07 +0000
        Re: Unwanted Focus switches nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-19 21:56 -0400
        Re: Unwanted Focus switches JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-06-19 23:18 -0400
        Re: Unwanted Focus switches Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-06-20 07:49 -0400
          Re: Unwanted Focus switches Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-06-20 16:26 +0000
            Re: Unwanted Focus switches JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-06-20 15:10 -0400
              Re: Unwanted Focus switches Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-06-20 20:01 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-06-20 16:14 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-06-20 20:20 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2014-06-20 16:53 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-06-20 22:16 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-06-20 22:54 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-06-21 04:41 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-06-21 04:46 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2014-06-20 16:51 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-06-20 22:05 +0000
            Re: Unwanted Focus switches Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-06-21 08:33 -0400
              Re: Unwanted Focus switches billy@MIX.COM - 2014-06-21 16:48 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches billy@MIX.COM - 2014-06-21 17:02 +0000
      Re: Unwanted Focus switches Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-06-21 08:27 +0200
        Re: Unwanted Focus switches Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-06-21 17:02 +0000
          Re: Unwanted Focus switches Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-06-21 19:39 +0200
  Re: Unwanted Focus switches JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-06-19 12:44 -0400
    Re: Unwanted Focus switches Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-06-20 09:28 +1200
      Re: Unwanted Focus switches nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-19 17:50 -0400
        Re: Unwanted Focus switches Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-06-20 09:27 -0700
          Re: Unwanted Focus switches nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-20 13:17 -0400
          Re: Unwanted Focus switches Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-06-21 08:30 +0200
            Re: Unwanted Focus switches JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-06-21 15:12 -0400
      Re: Unwanted Focus switches billy@MIX.COM - 2014-06-19 23:47 +0000
        Re: Unwanted Focus switches nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-19 20:00 -0400
          Re: Unwanted Focus switches billy@MIX.COM - 2014-06-20 17:09 +0000
            Re: Unwanted Focus switches nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-20 13:17 -0400
            Re: Unwanted Focus switches Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-06-21 08:39 +0200
        Re: Unwanted Focus switches Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-06-21 08:32 +0200
  Re: Unwanted Focus switches Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-06-19 18:20 +0000
  Re: Unwanted Focus switches Martin Frost me at invalid stanford daht edu <nospam@stanford.edu.invalid> - 2014-06-19 18:29 -0700
    Re: Unwanted Focus switches Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2014-06-19 21:54 -0400
      Re: Unwanted Focus switches Martin Frost me at invalid stanford daht edu <nospam@stanford.edu.invalid> - 2014-06-20 02:29 -0700
        Re: Unwanted Focus switches Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-06-20 16:28 +0000
          Re: Unwanted Focus switches nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-20 13:17 -0400
            Re: Unwanted Focus switches Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-06-20 19:34 +0000
              Re: Unwanted Focus switches nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-20 15:59 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-06-20 20:06 +0000
        Re: Unwanted Focus switches Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-06-21 08:26 -0400
    Re: Unwanted Focus switches Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-06-20 07:52 -0400
      Re: Unwanted Focus switches JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-06-20 15:05 -0400
        Re: Unwanted Focus switches Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2014-06-20 16:48 -0400
        Re: Unwanted Focus switches Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-06-21 08:57 +0200
        Re: Unwanted Focus switches Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-06-21 08:45 -0400
      Re: Unwanted Focus switches Martin Frost me at invalid stanford daht edu <nospam@stanford.edu.invalid> - 2014-06-20 18:08 -0700
        Re: Unwanted Focus switches Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-06-21 09:12 +0200
  Re: Unwanted Focus switches Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-06-20 09:27 -0700
    Re: Unwanted Focus switches Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-06-22 10:36 -0400
      Re: Unwanted Focus switches billy@MIX.COM - 2014-06-22 16:20 +0000
        Re: Unwanted Focus switches Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-06-22 17:22 -0400
      Re: Unwanted Focus switches Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-06-22 20:24 +0000
        Re: Unwanted Focus switches Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-06-22 17:24 -0400
          Re: Unwanted Focus switches Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-06-22 23:15 +0000
            Re: Unwanted Focus switches Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-06-23 08:39 -0400
          Re: Unwanted Focus switches Joe Wolf Dee <joedid@email.com> - 2014-06-23 08:00 -0400
            Re: Unwanted Focus switches Joe Wolf Dee <joedid@email.com> - 2014-06-23 08:09 -0400
              Re: Unwanted Focus switches Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-06-23 08:43 -0400
              Re: Unwanted Focus switches Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-06-24 15:35 +0200
            Re: Unwanted Focus switches Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-06-23 08:42 -0400
              Re: Unwanted Focus switches Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-06-23 14:41 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-06-24 07:46 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-06-24 12:06 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-06-24 18:40 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-06-25 03:16 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-06-25 07:19 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-06-25 21:16 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-06-26 06:52 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-06-26 15:59 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-06-26 17:25 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-06-26 22:45 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-06-26 20:47 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-06-27 01:50 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-06-27 06:43 -0400
  Re: Unwanted Focus switches Joe Wolf Dee <joedid@email.com> - 2014-06-20 17:50 -0400
    Re: Unwanted Focus switches Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-06-21 09:15 +0200
    Re: Unwanted Focus switches Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-06-21 09:03 -0400
  Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-06-25 07:21 -0400
    Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped Joe Wolf Dee <joedid@email.com> - 2014-06-25 07:41 -0400
    Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-06-25 17:25 +0000
      Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2014-06-25 18:34 +0100
      Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-06-25 14:51 -0400
        Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-25 15:04 -0400
        Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-06-25 19:55 +0000
      Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-25 15:04 -0400
        Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-06-25 15:32 -0400
          Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-26 12:22 -0400
        Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-06-25 20:02 +0000
          Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-26 12:22 -0400
            Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-06-26 17:27 +0000
              Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped billy@MIX.COM - 2014-06-26 19:08 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-26 22:03 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped billy@MIX.COM - 2014-06-27 04:41 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-06-27 04:48 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped billy@MIX.COM - 2014-06-27 08:20 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-06-27 22:04 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-06-27 06:36 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-28 16:10 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped billy@MIX.COM - 2014-06-29 10:34 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-06-29 15:11 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-06-27 01:59 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped billy@MIX.COM - 2014-06-27 08:27 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-28 16:10 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-06-27 07:59 -0700
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-06-27 22:08 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-28 16:11 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-06-28 22:22 -0700
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-06-29 14:46 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-06-29 13:01 -0700
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-06-29 20:36 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-06-29 13:46 -0700
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-06-29 23:13 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped billy@MIX.COM - 2014-06-29 21:54 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-06-29 21:40 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped billy@MIX.COM - 2014-06-30 02:12 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-06-30 02:27 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-06-30 13:52 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped billy@MIX.COM - 2014-06-30 19:51 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-06-30 16:07 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-07-01 02:52 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped billy@MIX.COM - 2014-07-01 15:08 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-07-01 13:16 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-07-01 08:19 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped billy@MIX.COM - 2014-07-01 15:12 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-28 16:10 -0400
              Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-26 22:03 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-06-27 04:19 +0000
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-28 16:10 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-06-28 20:35 +0000
            Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-06-26 14:42 -0400
              Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-26 22:03 -0400
                Re: Unwanted Focus switches -- culprit trapped dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2014-06-27 18:26 +1000

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