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Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics

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On Fri, 26 May 2017 12:17:12 +0100, RBlack <news@rblack01.plus.com>
wrote:

>On Thu, 25 May 2017 14:57:18 -0500, Jon Elson (jmelson@wustl.edu) said:
>> RBlack wrote:
>> 
>> > Hi,
>> > 
>> > We are working on a medical product, which will draw about 3 kW from the
>> > mains.  This is new territory for us, all our previous products were a
>> > few hundred watts max so an off-the-shelf auto-ranging PSU with a
>> > suitable IEC lead was OK for any country in the world.
>> > 
>> > 3 kW is OK for a standard outlet in 220V countries, but for North
>> > America, Japan etc we are over the limit for a standard 110V outlet.
>> > 
>> > I only know as much about US electrical installations as I've read, a
>> > bit of Googling suggests the product will need a NEMA 6-15 220V outlet.
>> > But how common are these in hospitals?  Anybody have any experience of
>> > this stuff?
>> > 
>> > It has been suggested (not by me I hasten to add) that we split the
>> > loads within the product up and give it two 110V inlets, to get around
>> > the customer having to install a 'special' outlet for it.  This sounds
>> > like a Really Bad Idea and a regulatory nightmare to me, so if 220V
>> > outlets are commonly available anyway I can shoot it down before it gets
>> > too far.
>> Yup, multiple power sources require jumping through a bunch more regulatory 
>> hoops.  Hospital rooms generally have a 240 V outlet for portable X-ray, 
>> although most of those are battery-powered.  I guess there's other gear that 
>> also needs a 220 V outlet.  If the units are for soemthing else than patient 
>> rooms, I doubt there'd be any problem.
>> 
>> Jon
>> 
>Thanks for all the replies so far.  Still early in the development, I 
>don't have all the requirements yet.
>
>The product gets wheeled into the operating room and used for part of 
>the procedure, then wheeled out into another room to be prepared for the 
>next operation.  It needs power in both locations.
>It doesn't have any patient applied parts, but as it's used in the 
>vicinity of the patient it does fall under 60601 and related standards.
>
>I knew about the dedicated 220V outlets in residential buildings for 
>clothes driers, air conditioners etc, from previous discussions on here.  
>I wouldn't expect to find these in a hospital building, hence my 
>question about the 6-15 type.  
>
>So, in summary:
>
>- 220V supply is available in all buildings, but we can't expect to find 
>a 220V outlet unused and available for use with our product on a given 
>customer's premises, they typically have to be installed in each 
>location as needed.

As long as there is 120V in the building, 240V isn't a problem.
>
>- A dedicated install is preferred anyway, to make sure the wiring, 
>breakers, etc are rated adequately for the product.  

Not necessarily.  If I read your posts correctly, your device is not
permanently installed, so you really don't want a dedicated install.  

>Just because a type 
>of outlet is rated for X amps, doesn't mean the wiring and breakers 
>behind it are.

Yes, it does.  Of course the installing electrician could be a moron
but it is against code to put an outlet on a circuit that is larger
than the circuit will support.  Likewise fuses/wiring (wiring can be
smaller but not larger than the OC device).

>- Standard 110V outlets are everywhere, but we can't expect to be able 
>to draw more than 10A continuously from one of these.

15A (max) is perfectly acceptable from a NEMA 5-15 outlet on a 20A
circuit (by far the most common combination), particularly if it's not
a "permanent" installation.  Just remember that there may be other
stuff on the circuit (but this could be a problem even at 10A).

>Somebody please correct me if I've misunderstood anything.

I think a survey of your anticipated customer base is in order.  

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Medical devices and US 220V electrics RBlack <news@rblack01.plus.com> - 2017-05-25 13:05 +0100
  Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-05-25 05:55 -0700
  Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-05-25 17:26 +0300
    Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-05-25 10:27 -0400
      Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-05-25 08:39 -0700
        Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-25 12:40 -0400
    Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-25 15:03 +0000
      Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-05-25 20:09 +0300
    Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics RBlack <news@rblack01.plus.com> - 2017-05-25 16:56 +0100
      Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-25 16:42 +0000
      Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-05-25 20:38 +0300
      Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-25 10:48 -0700
      Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Neon John <no@never.com> - 2017-05-28 15:48 -0400
      Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-29 01:08 -0400
    Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com> - 2017-05-25 17:51 +0000
      Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-05-25 21:25 +0300
    Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics "Tom Del Rosso" <fizzbintuesday@that-google-mail-domain.com> - 2017-05-26 11:55 -0400
      Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-26 17:38 -0400
        Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics "Tom Del Rosso" <fizzbintuesday@that-google-mail-domain.com> - 2017-05-26 20:32 -0400
          Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-26 22:20 -0400
            Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics "Tom Del Rosso" <fizzbintuesday@that-google-mail-domain.com> - 2017-05-27 00:33 -0400
              Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-27 09:37 -0400
  Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2017-05-25 12:07 -0400
    Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-25 12:49 -0400
      Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Neon John <no@never.com> - 2017-05-28 15:56 -0400
        Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-28 16:59 -0400
      Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-05-30 12:37 +0300
        Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-30 17:41 -0400
    Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics gregz <zekor@comcast.net> - 2017-05-30 06:58 +0000
  Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-25 12:15 -0400
    Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2017-05-25 15:07 -0500
      Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-05-25 13:14 -0700
        Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2017-05-25 16:34 -0500
      Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-25 18:47 -0400
        Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Sjouke Burry <burrynulnulfour@ppllaanneett.nnll> - 2017-05-27 01:46 +0200
          Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-26 19:53 -0400
            Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Sjouke Burry <burrynulnulfour@ppllaanneett.nnll> - 2017-05-27 02:05 +0200
              Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-26 22:21 -0400
                Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Sjouke Burry <burrynulnulfour@ppllaanneett.nnll> - 2017-05-27 04:25 +0200
                Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-26 22:33 -0400
                Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Sjouke Burry <burrynulnulfour@ppllaanneett.nnll> - 2017-05-27 21:48 +0200
  Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-05-25 11:20 -0700
  Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2017-05-25 14:57 -0500
    Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics RBlack <news@rblack01.plus.com> - 2017-05-26 12:17 +0100
      Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-05-26 04:53 -0700
      Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-05-26 06:00 -0700
      Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-26 12:05 -0400
      Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-26 17:51 -0400
        Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-05-26 17:54 -0700
          Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-26 22:24 -0400
      Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-05-27 00:52 +0300
        Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-05-26 15:39 -0700
      Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Neon John <no@never.com> - 2017-05-28 16:34 -0400
        Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-28 17:26 -0400
          Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Neon John <no@never.com> - 2017-05-29 12:12 -0400
            Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-29 14:26 -0400
  Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.really> - 2017-05-29 00:08 -0500
  Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2017-05-29 20:24 +0000
    Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-29 16:37 -0400
      Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2017-05-30 16:33 +0000
        Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-05-30 09:46 -0700
        Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-30 17:45 -0400
          Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2017-05-31 03:31 +0000
            Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-31 17:58 -0400
              Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-06-01 07:54 +0000
                Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-06-01 12:49 +0300
                Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Neon John <no@never.com> - 2017-06-01 10:28 -0400
                Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-06-01 14:45 +0000
                Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Neon John <no@never.com> - 2017-06-01 18:47 -0400
                Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-06-01 15:57 -0700
                Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-06-02 07:21 +0000
                Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics krw@notreal.com - 2017-06-01 18:59 -0400
              Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2017-06-03 14:00 +0000
                Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics krw@notreal.com - 2017-06-03 11:19 -0400
    Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-05-30 01:16 +0300
      Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-05-29 22:31 -0700
        Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-05-29 23:06 -0700
          Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-05-29 23:25 -0700
            Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-05-29 23:39 -0700
              Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-05-30 00:19 -0700
            Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-30 10:40 -0400
    Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-30 10:37 -0400
  Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-05-30 16:58 -0700
    Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-05-30 22:15 -0700
      Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-05-31 07:38 -0700
    Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2017-05-31 14:05 +0000
      Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-05-31 07:40 -0700
      Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-05-31 09:37 -0700

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