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Re: Binary translation (was: Almost Ready to Repeat the Cycle)

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On Fri, 23 Oct 2026 08:13:07 GMT
anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) wrote:

> Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:
> >Anton Ertl [2026-10-22 16:47:35] wrote:  
> >> That may have to do with the target that they translated to.  Intel
> >> and HP could not get this architecture style to perform well on
> >> general-purpose programs even when targeting it directly, so why
> >> should it perform well with a dynamic binary translator?
> >> OTOH, it seems to work ok for Apple with Rosetta.  
> >
> >I can see 2 important differences:
> >
> >- Does the ISA you're emulating have an actively developed hardware
> >  implementation against which you're going to have to compete?  
> 
> It's the same ISA in both cases.  You could argue that Intel-based
> Macs are the only competition for Mac users, but the brand loyalty of
> Mac users would be another important difference.
> 
> Certainly the Windows on ARM efforts have to compete with Windows
> computers running on AMD64 hardware implementations.  I read about
> slowdowns from binary translation by a factor of 2.
> 
> >- Do you expect to spend 99% of your time emulating a foreign ISA,
> >or do
> >  you expect to mostly run binaries using your native ISA and just
> >  occasionally emulate another?  
> 
> That's an important one.  Microsoft tries to get the ISVs of the most
> popular software to support ARM A64, and hopes that's enough to
> commoditize their complement
> <https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2002/06/12/strategy-letter-v/>.
> Apparently they do not consider the Intel/AMD competition to be enough
> for a commodity, or maybe the the reason is that on Intel and AMD
> processors Linux commiditizes Windows to some extent; the latter
> suggests that the Linux non-compatibility of Windows-on-ARM hardware
> is intended (IIRC some Linix hardware company tried to get Linux to
> run on the CPUs of the first Windows-on-ARM laptops, but eventually
> gave up).
> 

Was it Arm32 or Arm64?

> Anyway, the jury is still out on whether Windows on ARM works this
> time.
> 
> - anton

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Almost Ready to Repeat the Cycle quadibloc@invalid.com (John Savard) - 2026-10-18 18:39 +0000
  Re: Almost Ready to Repeat the Cycle quadibloc@invalid.com (John Savard) - 2026-10-18 18:47 +0000
    Re: Almost Ready to Repeat the Cycle quadibloc@invalid.com (John Savard) - 2026-10-18 22:00 +0000
      Re: Almost Ready to Repeat the Cycle quadibloc@invalid.com (John Savard) - 2026-10-20 17:12 +0000
  Re: Almost Ready to Repeat the Cycle jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2026-10-20 20:21 +0100
    Re: Almost Ready to Repeat the Cycle BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-10-21 15:28 -0500
      Re: Almost Ready to Repeat the Cycle John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-10-22 04:52 +0000
        Re: Almost Ready to Repeat the Cycle Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2026-10-22 23:42 +0100
      Re: Almost Ready to Repeat the Cycle MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-22 16:10 +0000
        Re: Almost Ready to Repeat the Cycle anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-10-22 16:47 +0000
          Re: Almost Ready to Repeat the Cycle BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-10-22 20:23 -0500
            Binary translation (was: Almost Ready to Repeat the Cycle) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-10-23 07:55 +0000
              Re: Binary translation BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-10-23 03:50 -0500
                Re: Binary translation anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-10-23 16:21 +0000
                Re: Binary translation jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2026-10-23 23:51 +0100
              Re: Binary translation antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-10-25 00:10 +0000
                Re: Binary translation aph@littlepinkcloud.invalid - 2026-10-25 19:49 +0000
          Re: Almost Ready to Repeat the Cycle Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-10-22 15:45 -0400
            Binary translation (was: Almost Ready to Repeat the Cycle) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-10-23 08:13 +0000
              Re: Binary translation (was: Almost Ready to Repeat the Cycle) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-10-23 12:24 +0300
                Re: Binary translation (was: Almost Ready to Repeat the Cycle) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-10-23 16:41 +0000
              Re: Binary translation (was: Almost Ready to Repeat the Cycle) jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2026-10-23 23:51 +0100
            Re: Almost Ready to Repeat the Cycle quadibloc@invalid.com (John Savard) - 2026-10-23 14:53 +0000
              Re: Almost Ready to Repeat the Cycle quadibloc@invalid.com (John Savard) - 2026-10-23 15:08 +0000
          Re: Almost Ready to Repeat the Cycle jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2026-10-23 17:22 +0100
            Re: Almost Ready to Repeat the Cycle anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-10-23 21:20 +0000

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