Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #234771

Re: Whatever Happened To Document-Centric Computing?

From	John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	alt.folklore.computers
Subject	Re: Whatever Happened To Document-Centric Computing?
Date	2026-05-11 08:23 -0700
Organization	A place where nothing fits quite right
Message-ID	<20260511082323.00002595@gmail.com> (permalink)
References	<10tr29n$n8tt$5@dont-email.me>

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On Sun, 10 May 2026 22:53:44 -0000 (UTC)
Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

> Did all this turn out to be too complex for users to manage? Or was it
> merely killed by the usual war-of-competing-proprietary-standards,
> with Microsoft in one corner with its OLE 2.0 architecture, and Apple
> in the other with OpenDoc?

It's been a minute and I never dug into the nitty-gritty, but AFAICT it
was a bit of both. I don't doubt vendors' instincts for lock-in played
a part, but I think it was as much (if not more) that creating a robust
& extensible framework for tying together multiple disparate-but-inter-
operable components is Hard, Actually.

It's easy to *say* "the spreadsheet part," but in order to implement
that in a real-world context you have to define what a spreadsheet is,
and that entails defining all the things it *isn't.* Say you discover
later that there's a need for [spreadsheet] to include XYZ frobnitzen
that weren't part of the initial spec (or, with commercial interests
involved, that Marketing *decides* there's a need.) Now the conceptual
scope of [spreadsheet] is larger than the [spreadsheet] standard...

Do you let vendors go ahead and implement it in their own [spreadsheet]
components however they will? Then you lose interoperability, since XYZ
will be limited to the internal scope of a [spreadsheet] and get lost
if you try to bring it across into something else (the old "rich text
doesn't copy/paste correctly" problem.)

Do you let vendor X take the lead, and everyone else copies their work?
Then XYZ is liable to pick up their idiosyncracies, and may not mesh
well with other vendors' way of doing things.

Do you try to wrangle a standards body into defining the XYZ extension?
Then you push back the implementation of XYZ months or years, all while
the *need* for XYZ goes unfulfilled in the meantime - *or* you move
ahead with one of the first two options and try to reconcile standard &
implementation after the fact, which inevitably turns into a clownshow.

And the mechanics of implementing "very many arbitrary interoperable
components" as a design strategy are their *own* challenge, especially
if they're sharing a process space or otherwise have the means to make
Stuff happen automagically. Just look at how many security issues OLE,
ActiveX, and VBScript have been responsible for, and that's largely
within the range of *one vendor's* products.

It's a lovely *idea,* but I'm not surprised few parties have had the
appetite to tackle the challenges of bringing it to fruition.

Thread

Whatever Happened To Document-Centric Computing? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-10 22:53 +0000
  Re: Whatever Happened To Document-Centric Computing? John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-11 08:23 -0700
    Re: Whatever Happened To Document-Centric Computing? Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2026-05-18 17:34 +0100
      Re: Whatever Happened To Document-Centric Computing? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-18 20:58 +0000
      Re: Whatever Happened To Document-Centric Computing? Jeffrey Bagely <6cf6e82302@darkc0de.one> - 2026-08-03 23:24 +0000
        Re: Whatever Happened To Document-Centric Computing? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-03 23:53 +0000
          Re: Whatever Happened To Document-Centric Computing? Jeffrey Bagely <6cf6e82302@darkc0de.one> - 2026-08-04 00:48 +0000
            Re: Whatever Happened To Document-Centric Computing? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-04 02:56 +0000
              Re: Whatever Happened To Document-Centric Computing? Jeffrey Bagely <6cf6e82302@darkc0de.one> - 2026-08-04 03:08 +0000
            Re: Whatever Happened To Document-Centric Computing? Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2026-08-04 15:33 +0100
              Re: Whatever Happened To Document-Centric Computing? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-08-04 14:45 +0000
              Re: Whatever Happened To Document-Centric Computing? Jeffrey Bagely <6cf6e82302@darkc0de.one> - 2026-08-04 21:31 +0000
                Re: Whatever Happened To Document-Centric Computing? Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2026-08-05 00:19 +0100
                Re: Whatever Happened To Document-Centric Computing? Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-16 21:53 +0800
                Re: Whatever Happened To Document-Centric Computing? Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2026-08-18 11:09 +0100
                Re: Whatever Happened To Document-Centric Computing? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-05 00:29 +0000
                Re: Whatever Happened To Document-Centric Computing? Jeffrey Bagely <6cf6e82302@darkc0de.one> - 2026-08-05 03:18 +0000
                Re: Whatever Happened To Document-Centric Computing? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-05 04:39 +0000
              Re: Whatever Happened To Document-Centric Computing? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-05 00:31 +0000
                Re: Whatever Happened To Document-Centric Computing? Jeffrey Bagely <6cf6e82302@darkc0de.one> - 2026-08-05 03:22 +0000
                Re: Whatever Happened To Document-Centric Computing? Jeffrey Bagely <6cf6e82302@darkc0de.one> - 2026-08-05 03:24 +0000
                Re: Whatever Happened To Document-Centric Computing? Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2026-08-05 18:46 +0100
                Re: Whatever Happened To Document-Centric Computing? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-05 21:38 +0000
                Re: Whatever Happened To Document-Centric Computing? Jeffrey Bagely <6cf6e82302@darkc0de.one> - 2026-08-05 21:55 +0000
                Re: Whatever Happened To Document-Centric Computing? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-06 03:30 +0000
                Re: Whatever Happened To Document-Centric Computing? Anton Antimo <anton@safunu.org> - 2026-08-06 15:13 -0300
                Re: Whatever Happened To Document-Centric Computing? Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2026-08-07 10:16 +0100
                Re: Whatever Happened To Document-Centric Computing? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-07 21:46 +0000
                Re: Whatever Happened To Document-Centric Computing? John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-08-10 08:46 -0700
                Re: Whatever Happened To Document-Centric Computing? Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2026-08-12 12:28 +0100
                Re: Whatever Happened To Document-Centric Computing? John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-08-18 15:38 -0700
                UNIX certification (was: Whatever Happened To Document-Centric Computing?) Geoff Clare <geoff@clare.See-My-Signature.invalid> - 2026-08-06 13:54 +0100
                Re: UNIX certification (was: Whatever Happened To Document-Centric Computing?) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-06 23:58 +0000
                Re: UNIX certification (was: Whatever Happened To Document-Centric Computing?) Geoff Clare <geoff@clare.See-My-Signature.invalid> - 2026-08-07 13:17 +0100
                Re: UNIX certification (was: Whatever Happened To Document-Centric Computing?) Bob Eager <throwaway0008@eager.cx> - 2026-08-07 17:18 +0000
                Re: UNIX certification Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2026-08-08 12:16 +0100
                Re: UNIX certification Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2026-08-08 18:41 -0400
                Re: UNIX certification (was: Whatever Happened To Document-Centric Computing?) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-13 23:23 +0000
                Re: UNIX certification (was: Whatever Happened To Document-CentricComp "Phigan" <phigan@mutinybbs.com.remove-51d-this> - 2026-08-14 01:38 -0400
                Re: UNIX certification (was: Whatever Happened To Document-CentricComp Bob Eager <throwaway0008@eager.cx> - 2026-08-14 12:14 +0000
                Re: UNIX certification (was: Whatever Happened To Document-CentricComp Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-08-14 21:18 +0000
                Re: UNIX certification (was: Whatever Happened To Document-CentricComp scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-08-14 21:31 +0000
                Re: UNIX certification (was: Whatever Happened To Document-CentricComp "Phigan" <phigan@mutinybbs.com.remove-110l-this> - 2026-08-16 10:14 -0400
                Re: UNIX certification (was: Whatever Happened To Document-CentricComp drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2026-08-16 21:33 +0000
                Re: UNIX certification (was: Whatever Happened To Document-CentricComp Bob Eager <throwaway0008@eager.cx> - 2026-08-16 22:44 +0000
                Re: UNIX certification (was: Whatever Happened To Document-CentricComp scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-08-17 14:24 +0000
                Re: UNIX certification (was: Whatever Happened To Document-CentricComp Bob Eager <throwaway0008@eager.cx> - 2026-08-17 14:32 +0000
                Re: UNIX certification (was: Whatever Happened To Document-CentricComp Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-08-14 20:52 -0700
                Re: UNIX certification (was: Whatever Happened To Document-CentricComp Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-15 04:21 +0000
                Multics (ws: Re: UNIX certification (was: Whatever Happened To Document-CentricComp) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-16 21:36 +0800
                Re: Multics (ws: Re: UNIX certification (was: Whatever Happened To Document-CentricComp) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-08-16 07:32 -0700
                Re: UNIX certification (was: Whatever Happened To Document-CentricComp Geoff Clare <geoff@clare.See-My-Signature.invalid> - 2026-08-14 13:29 +0100
                Re: UNIX certification (was: Whatever Happened To  Document-CentricComp vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> - 2026-08-16 12:26 +0000
                Re: UNIX certification (was: Whatever Happened To Document-CentricComp Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-08-14 07:31 -0700
                Re: UNIX certification (was: Whatever Happened ToDocument-CentricComp "Phigan" <phigan@mutinybbs.com.remove-110l-this> - 2026-08-16 10:12 -0400
                Princess Irulan (was: Re: UNIX certification (was: Whatever Happened To Document-CentricComp) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-16 21:33 +0800
                Re: UNIX certification (was: Whatever Happened To Document-Centric Computing?) Geoff Clare <geoff@clare.See-My-Signature.invalid> - 2026-08-14 13:20 +0100
                Re: UNIX certification (was: Whatever Happened To Document-Centric Computing?) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-16 22:16 +0000
                Re: UNIX certification antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-08-21 12:56 +0000
                Re: UNIX certification Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-21 22:29 +0000
                System calls in assembly (was: Re: UNIX certification) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-16 21:40 +0800
    Extensible, interoperable standards (Document-Centric Computing) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-05-18 20:56 -0700
      Re: Extensible, interoperable standards (Document-Centric Computing) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-19 05:49 +0000
  Re: Whatever Happened To Document-Centric Computing? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2026-05-12 20:16 -0400
    Re: Whatever Happened To Document-Centric Computing? Jonathan Lamothe <jonathan@jlamothe.net> - 2026-05-18 10:31 -0400
  Re: Whatever Happened To Document-Centric Computing? David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-08-04 16:20 +0100

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