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Groups > comp.theory > #131496

Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable

From Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com>
Newsgroups comp.theory, comp.lang.c++, comp.lang.c, comp.ai.philosophy
Subject Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable
Date 2025-10-04 05:02 +0000
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <20251003212353.43@kylheku.com> (permalink)
References (4 earlier) <10bn5ot$1bje3$1@dont-email.me> <20251003144904.146@kylheku.com> <10bphd5$24fi1$1@dont-email.me> <20251003155144.914@kylheku.com> <10bpnsl$25vc4$1@dont-email.me>

Cross-posted to 4 groups.

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On 2025-10-03, olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/3/2025 6:25 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
>> So anyway, in the diagonal trick used for reasoning about halting,
>> the self-reference is much more like:
>> 
>>    This sentence has four words.
>> 
>> than it is like:
>> 
>>    This sentence is false.
>> 
>
> Incorrect.
>
> For the set of H/P pairs of
> decider H and input P:
> If H says halts then P loops
> If H says loops then P halts
> making H(P) always incorrect.

Nope, it's like (from my Lisp session):

  7> (len "This string has thirty-eight characters")
  39

Oops, the sentence is wrong; let's fix it to "nine":

  8> (len "This string has thirty-nine characters")
  38

Oops, now it's thirty-eight like it said originally ...

But we can just regard either sentence as incorrect and be done with it;
there is no issue assigning a truth value.

The sentence is talking self-referentially about a property other than
its truth value, so the pathological ingredient from the Liar Paradox is
absent.

-- 
TXR Programming Language: http://nongnu.org/txr
Cygnal: Cygwin Native Application Library: http://kylheku.com/cygnal
Mastodon: @Kazinator@mstdn.ca

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Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-02 15:59 -0500
  Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-02 17:19 -0400
    Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-02 16:56 -0500
      Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2025-10-05 16:46 -0400
  Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-02 23:31 +0000
    Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-02 18:40 -0500
      Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-02 23:54 +0000
        Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-02 19:35 -0500
          Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-03 21:50 +0000
            Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-03 17:01 -0500
              Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-03 15:06 -0700
                Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-10-04 12:05 +0300
                Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-04 20:10 -0700
            Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-03 17:06 -0500
              Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-03 23:25 +0000
                Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-03 18:57 -0500
                Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-04 05:02 +0000
                Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-04 07:56 -0500
                Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-10-04 16:01 +0100
                Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-04 10:20 -0500
                Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-04 15:36 +0000
                Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-04 11:35 -0500
                Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-04 16:49 +0000
                Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-05 07:52 -0500
                Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-10-04 17:44 +0100
                Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-10-04 15:32 +0100
          Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-10-04 00:11 +0100
            Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-03 18:28 -0500
              Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-03 23:52 +0000
                Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-10-04 01:06 +0100
                Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-03 19:11 -0500
                Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-04 05:04 +0000
                Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-04 08:04 -0500
                Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-10-04 14:04 +0000
                Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-04 10:43 -0500
                Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-04 16:55 +0000
                Conventional HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable --- embedded_H olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-05 07:58 -0500
                Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-05 08:17 -0500
                Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2025-10-05 16:50 -0400
                Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-10-04 16:06 +0100
                Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-04 10:22 -0500
                Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-04 20:21 -0700
                Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-04 16:24 +0000
                Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-04 20:17 -0700
          Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-10-04 12:00 +0300
            Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-04 22:56 -0500
              Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-10-05 05:31 +0100
              Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-10-05 12:47 +0300
                Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-05 09:35 -0500
                Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-10-05 16:28 +0100
                Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-10-06 12:07 +0300
  Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-10-03 13:12 +0300
    Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-03 08:20 -0500
      Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-10-04 12:13 +0300
        Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-04 23:06 -0500
  Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable Wuns Haerst <Wuns.Haerst@wurstfabrik.at> - 2025-10-04 17:23 +0200
    Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-04 10:25 -0500
    Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-04 10:27 -0500
  Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2025-10-05 16:46 -0400

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