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Groups > comp.theory > #131338

Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable

From Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com>
Newsgroups comp.theory, comp.lang.c++, comp.lang.c, comp.ai.philosophy
Subject Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable
Date 2025-10-02 23:54 +0000
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <20251002164524.463@kylheku.com> (permalink)
References <10bmp4e$18mno$1@dont-email.me> <20251002162027.571@kylheku.com> <10bn2h1$1atqn$1@dont-email.me>

Cross-posted to 4 groups.

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On 2025-10-02, olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/2/2025 6:31 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
>> On 2025-10-02, olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> void P()
>>> {
>>>     if H(P)  // returns 1 for halts 0 for loops
>>>       HERE: goto HERE;
>>> }
>>>
>>> For *any* decider H and input P
>>> If H says halts then P loops
>>> If H says loops then P halts
>>> Making this HP diagonal case unsatisfiable.
>> 
>> You stil don't get it: there isn't one diagonal case.
>
> You still didn't pay close enough attention.
> For *any* decider H and input P

But, literally, if you have the quantification "for any decider H and
any input P", you are spanning the entire table, not just the diagonal!
So your argumentation is then wrong.

You need, "For all rows of the table i, Hi does not correctly
decide the corresponding case Pi in column i".

We quantify just one independent variable; the other is dependent. Pi is
built on Hi; it is dependent.

If we quantify over H, we cannot quantify over /any/ P; it is pinned
We choose a Hi, go to the diagonal in H's row, and then in that
column we find Pi.

You keep insisting that nobody is looking at the details
of what you are saying, but your details are sloppy as hell,
which raises the suspicion that you don't understand things.

People who understand a subject show it by being crisply accurate
in all their details (except teaching the subject to those who are
missing a chunk of background, needing to simplify certain aspects).

The reason you are not a good communicator, as you have acknowledged,
is that you don't know the subject matter. Your writing about stuff
you know is decent enough.

-- 
TXR Programming Language: http://nongnu.org/txr
Cygnal: Cygwin Native Application Library: http://kylheku.com/cygnal
Mastodon: @Kazinator@mstdn.ca

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Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-02 15:59 -0500
  Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-02 17:19 -0400
    Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-02 16:56 -0500
      Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2025-10-05 16:46 -0400
  Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-02 23:31 +0000
    Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-02 18:40 -0500
      Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-02 23:54 +0000
        Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-02 19:35 -0500
          Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-03 21:50 +0000
            Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-03 17:01 -0500
              Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-03 15:06 -0700
                Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-10-04 12:05 +0300
                Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-04 20:10 -0700
            Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-03 17:06 -0500
              Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-03 23:25 +0000
                Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-03 18:57 -0500
                Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-04 05:02 +0000
                Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-04 07:56 -0500
                Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-10-04 16:01 +0100
                Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-04 10:20 -0500
                Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-04 15:36 +0000
                Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-04 11:35 -0500
                Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-04 16:49 +0000
                Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-05 07:52 -0500
                Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-10-04 17:44 +0100
                Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-10-04 15:32 +0100
          Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-10-04 00:11 +0100
            Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-03 18:28 -0500
              Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-03 23:52 +0000
                Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-10-04 01:06 +0100
                Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-03 19:11 -0500
                Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-04 05:04 +0000
                Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-04 08:04 -0500
                Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-10-04 14:04 +0000
                Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-04 10:43 -0500
                Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-04 16:55 +0000
                Conventional HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable --- embedded_H olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-05 07:58 -0500
                Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-05 08:17 -0500
                Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2025-10-05 16:50 -0400
                Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-10-04 16:06 +0100
                Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-04 10:22 -0500
                Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-04 20:21 -0700
                Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-04 16:24 +0000
                Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-04 20:17 -0700
          Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-10-04 12:00 +0300
            Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-04 22:56 -0500
              Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-10-05 05:31 +0100
              Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-10-05 12:47 +0300
                Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-05 09:35 -0500
                Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-10-05 16:28 +0100
                Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-10-06 12:07 +0300
  Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-10-03 13:12 +0300
    Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-03 08:20 -0500
      Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-10-04 12:13 +0300
        Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-04 23:06 -0500
  Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable Wuns Haerst <Wuns.Haerst@wurstfabrik.at> - 2025-10-04 17:23 +0200
    Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-04 10:25 -0500
    Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-04 10:27 -0500
  Re: Conventional notion of the HP diagonal case is succinctly proven unsatisfiable Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2025-10-05 16:46 -0400

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