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Re: a most bizarre conversation

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> 
> 
>> Her and I had a session yesterday.  Spent some time LOOKING at the db 
>> levels we work.   I've just layed down the reality with her. I'm not 
>> working at ****** stage levels ********  over about 90 db.   Just ain't 
>> happening.   I'm not going to wear hear plugs so we can just play 
>> louder ON STAGE.
> 
> 90 dB is plenty. But all SPL figures are best stated in terms of 
> distance from the source i.e. 90 dB at 1 meter at 1 Watt. But that's 
> only for speaker parameters - for the important hearing protecting 
> purpose, all that's needed is the SPL and the distance from the source.
> 
>> The FOH and the stage level are two separate things.
> 
> Or at least they should be ;)
> 
>> So stop whinning about the FOH levels. No more asking " a friend " if 
>> we're loud enough. I'm done with that.
> 
> Unless she can actually hear the FOH system from the perspective of the 
> audience, what possible basis can she have for evaluating its level in 
> the first place?
> 
>> It occurs to me, she simply can't wrap her mind around the the stage 
>> level and the FOH level being different.
> 
>> Because she doesn't want to.
> 
> That's it, but why?
> 
>> She did make reference at one point that her own voice was drowning out 
>> the music.  Huh.  Well, how about you back off a little on the vocal 
>> level ?   That's the stickler.  She's worked with loud bar bands so 
>> long, so much, that she's stuck in a singing style of VERY LOUD. 
>> There's not easing off, at least so far. Oh she, can, I've seen her do 
>> it, but she doesn't want to.
> 
>> Again, that phrase, because she doesn't want to.
> 
> Practicing the new technique is what's needed there.
> 
>> Or, simply get the stage level down to where you don't need them.
> 
> THAT would be Ideal!!! I just HATE the notion of playing under some 
> kind  of Handicap, where 'work-arounds' and other compensating and 
> mitigating techniques are used...particularly if they wouldn't even be 
> necessary if things were done RIGHT in the first place!!!
> 
>> There's no reason musicians can't play at tolerable stage levels.
> 
> None at all. It just  takes the right ATTITUDE!
> 
>> Turn the stuff down and mic things for the FOH sound.  They just don't want to.
> 
> Whatever makes it sound BEST - THAT *should* be the  attitude!
> 
>> We talked about that.  I'm ok with her using a wedge IF she keeps it 
>> pointed at her head.
> 
> That's always been how I prefer to use monitors - point them right at 
> *my* ears, and keep them close enough to where only minimal power is 
> needed for them to be effective...which is why I like the small ones 
> and really have no use for the monsters with the 15" speakers and more.
> 
>> No angling it off to one side, cranking it up, and then complaing she 
>> can't hear it.  Point it directly at HER head, then adjust it to 
>> whatever level she wants.
> 
> Besides, that's effectively making it part of the FOH system - even in 
> a similar power range, which is Silly.
> 
>> Don't point it off towards the back wall, or the drums, or ME .... then 
>> insist on cranking it up because " I can't hear it ".
> 
> Monitors work best when they're Personal...the idea is NOT to share them!
> 
>> Yes, imagine the rewards of actually supplying what the customer wants.
> 
> Any other way is counterproductive.
> 
>> She cares because her bar and ex muso friends tell her we're not loud 
>> enough for their low brow tastes.   Obviously she shares their 
>> preference for loud music.
> 
> Now all they have to do is learn to use an SPL meter. Then they can 
> actually Know the levels before deciding ;)
> 
>> Got a newly fried JBL apart on my bench right now thanks to  " I can't 
>> hear it " thinking.
> 
> I wouldn't fry equipment for anyone - neither they nor their Stupid 
> comments are worth it!!!
> 
>> I told her I'd try and fix it, or she can throw it away.  Haven't 
>> looked at it in about two weeks, just because of other more pressing 
>> issues. Eventually I guess we'll get it going again. Not a biggie, she 
>> has another of these she can toast on her path to learning how monitors 
>> work.
> 
> That's not learning, only ruining gear ;)
> You'd have a better chance with 6th graders, because they'd at least be 
> up for learning ;)
> 
>> She'll learn to back of the volume, or she won't.
> 
> It's easy enough, just turn counterclockwise rather than clockwise ;)
> 
>> What's bizarre is I have several musician friends who think just like 
>> her, loud or nothing.
> 
> At that's probably all that's left of there hearing - Nothing...from 
> being too loud for too long!
> But why be so loud, and Stupid alone?  So they try to get other FOOLS 
> to repeat history - nothing new under the sun.
> 
>> Of course, none of them are currently in working bands.
> 
> Maybe they can't even hear what they play anymore.
> 
>> Lots of talk about putting something together, bla bla.  They might.  
>> Then they'll play a handfull of gigs, be crazy loud as before, lose all 
>> the repeat bookings, and be back where they are now, talking about 
>> putting a band together.
> 
> Or they'll play so badly, because they can't hear, that every new gig 
> will be their last. I know of a band like that. No one but drunks, and 
> maybe even deaf ones at that, will tolerate them. It's truly Tragic, 
> but then Stupidity always is!
> 
>> She knows that.
> 
> So then she therefore also knows that the proverbial ball is in her 
> court and that it's her move.
> 
>> We can lose any of our jobs at any time.  Go in, screw up bad enough, 
>> and it's over, contracts or not.
> 
> I'd think so. I recall even hearing about a big name band that made 
> such a train wreck of a concert that they weren't even paid for it, and 
> when they tried to take their employer to court to try to collect, 
> after the evidence was presented, the court sided with the employer 
> finding them not liable for payment ;)
> 
>> Management is complaining.  As are some of the audience.
> 
> So they find it too loud too?
> 
>> Wanna see something amazing ?   Tell a musician or a chick singer they 
>> are too loud.  Then, just stand back and watch the reaction.
> 
> They probably wouldn't understand what that means ;)
> 
>> That's what she's going thru now. It would be major entertainment if it 
>> wasn't such a serious thing.
> 
> I've found that such situations are far too Disgusting to be funny.
> Kind of reminds me of some of the accounts of the details regarding 
> plane crashes - if it weren't for the tragedy, it might even be funny, 
> in a Silly, Stupid way.
> 
>> Well .....   yesterday didn't go too bad.  We don't play this weekend. 
>> I have some solo gigs next week, then the band is back at it on the 
>> weekend. We have two more gigs on this years deal at the SD.  If we get 
>> thru those without getting fired, then who knows.  It's all up to her 
>> maturity level. Can she work as an adult, or will her stubborn child 
>> inside blow it up ?
> 
> JimD
> 
> Depends on what kind of child ;)
> An episode, specifically "The Bellero shield" of one of my all time 
> favorite programs, "The Outer Limits", mentioned that courage, such as 
> to boldly explore and experiment, are reserved "for very small children 
> and very dedicated scientists". That's my attitude - both of those, and 
> it results in a certain level of maturity to preserve it without 
> becoming overcome with panic. If she were to adopt THAT kind of 
> maturity, it would no doubt bear some awesome results!
> 
> Ouisie


I'm quietly resigning myself to going on as a solo gig after she blows 
this trio up. That's ok with me.  I told her point blank, face to face 
last week that this is her problem, of her making. If she wants to blow 
the band up over refusing to let of of the volume thing, then it's on 
her head.

Only time will tell if that sunk in.

We can't work the better places and do it like we're in some low end biker bar.


JimD

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Thread

a most bizarre conversation Jim D <Not@ThisAddress.com> - 2019-03-31 03:25 -0400
  Re: a most bizarre conversation Jim D <Not@ThisAddress.com> - 2019-03-31 22:26 -0400
    Re: a most bizarre conversation "Ouisie" <someone@anywheret.net> - 2019-04-01 12:58 -0500
      Re: a most bizarre conversation Jim D <Not@ThisAddress.com> - 2019-04-03 09:53 -0400
        Re: a most bizarre conversation "Ouisie" <someone@anywheret.net> - 2019-04-03 15:24 -0500
          Re: a most bizarre conversation Jim D <Not@ThisAddress.com> - 2019-04-05 11:12 -0400
            Re: a most bizarre conversation "Ouisie" <someone@anywheret.net> - 2019-04-08 13:29 -0500
              Re: a most bizarre conversation Jim D <Not@ThisAddress.com> - 2019-04-10 12:06 -0400
                Re: a most bizarre conversation "Ouisie" <someone@anywheret.net> - 2019-04-14 16:51 -0500
                Re: a most bizarre conversation Jim D <Not@ThisAddress.com> - 2019-04-16 13:08 -0400
                Re: a most bizarre conversation "Ouisie" <someone@anywheret.net> - 2019-04-16 15:21 -0500
                Re: a most bizarre conversation Jim D <Not@ThisAddress.com> - 2019-04-18 11:55 -0400
                Re: a most bizarre conversation "Ouisie" <someone@anywheret.net> - 2019-04-20 19:00 -0500
                Re: a most bizarre conversation Jim D <Not@ThisAddress.com> - 2019-04-21 10:09 -0400
                Re: a most bizarre conversation "Ouisie" <someone@anywheret.net> - 2019-04-21 14:45 -0500
                Re: a most bizarre conversation Jim D <Not@ThisAddress.com> - 2019-04-22 14:58 -0400
                Re: a most bizarre conversation "Ouisie" <someone@anywheret.net> - 2019-04-22 16:45 -0500
                Re: a most bizarre conversation Jim D <Not@ThisAddress.com> - 2019-04-25 09:43 -0400
                Re: a most bizarre conversation "Ouisie" <someone@anywheret.net> - 2019-04-27 20:45 -0500
                Re: a most bizarre conversation Jim D <Not@ThisAddress.com> - 2019-05-13 10:52 -0400
                Re: a most bizarre conversation "Ouisie" <someone@anywheret.net> - 2019-05-13 18:38 -0500

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