Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.lang.forth > #60764

Re: When forth powered desktop pc?

Show all headers | View raw

On Tue, 13 Jun 2017 19:32:20 -0700 (PDT)
gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> wrote:

> can forth outperform php ruby python java c?

Outperform?  Unlikely.

All high-level languages are converted to assembly.  (Actually, it's
converted to the processor's binary instruction format, but this is
usually referred to as "assembly" since no one programs in binary.)
So, the best outcome is the most optimized assembly for the given
task.  A good compiler will generate very optimized assembly.  If you
have two high-level languages whose compilers generate excellently
optimized assembly, how can one outperform the other?  They'll both
basically generate the exact same code for the same task.  I.e., you're
limited by the assembly language of the microprocessor, if you have a
good optimizing compiler for your high-level language.  If you don't
have a good optimizing compiler, then you're limited by the compiler or
your ability to code efficiently.

> is forth the best?

The best is the language which most accurately and easily expresses the
problem you're attempting to solve via your program.  This can be
measured in various ways.  One way is called the "code density" of
a language.  There are all sorts of metrics to measure code density,
e.g., "function points."

> is it really simpler?

In certain aspects, Forth really is simpler than the C language.  That's
not a good thing.  Simplicity can mean much more work for you.  In
Forth, you must keep track of items on a stack, i.e., stack juggling.
C does much of this for you and hides much of it too.  So, the question
you should ask is: "is it really easier?"  I'd argue that *NOT* having
to handle certain types of simplicity makes the language simpler, as in
less work.  Let's call that being easier.  Personally, one reason I
don't like assembly is because of the simplicity.  There is no easy way
to implement variables in many assembly languages.  The variable may be
in memory where you need to reference it by a memory address, or it may
be in a register where you need to reference it by a register name, or
it may be on the stack where you need to reference it by an offset to
another register, usually.  There is no unified method to access a
variable in assembly, i.e., you can't access it by name no matter where
the value is located, unlike a high-level language.  Arguably, assembly
is simpler, but it's not easier.  Whereas, with a high-level language
like C, variables are available.  Variables make my life easier, hence
simpler.

> I dont think I can learn coloforth...

Why?  Unavailable?  Too complex?  Colorblind?  Low IQ?  Handicapped?
Medicated?  What?


Rod Pemberton
-- 
The Paris Agreement is irrelevant. A carbon tax is futile. The only
solution is technology. Please tell Elon Musk that he is not being a
technology visionary.

Back to comp.lang.forth | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

When forth powered desktop pc? gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2017-06-13 09:01 -0700
  Re: When forth powered desktop pc? Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2017-06-13 19:39 +0300
    Re: When forth powered desktop pc? gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2017-06-13 12:57 -0700
      Re: When forth powered desktop pc? Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2017-06-14 10:17 +0300
        Re: When forth powered desktop pc? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-06-14 22:39 +1000
          Re: When forth powered desktop pc? gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2017-06-14 08:10 -0700
        Re: When forth powered desktop pc? gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2017-06-14 08:08 -0700
  Re: When forth powered desktop pc? "Robert L." <No_spamming@noWhere_7073.org> - 2017-06-13 20:13 +0000
    Re: When forth powered desktop pc? gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2017-06-13 19:32 -0700
      Re: When forth powered desktop pc? Rod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem> - 2017-06-14 20:00 -0400
        Re: When forth powered desktop pc? gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2017-06-15 11:14 -0700
          Re: When forth powered desktop pc? minforth@arcor.de - 2017-06-15 11:57 -0700
            Re: When forth powered desktop pc? gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2017-06-16 06:47 -0700
          Re: When forth powered desktop pc? Konstantin Tcholokachvili <tcholoka@gmail.com> - 2017-06-16 07:26 -0700
            Re: When forth powered desktop pc? gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2017-06-16 07:42 -0700

csiph-web