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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #60699 > unrolled thread
| Started by | gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2017-06-13 09:01 -0700 |
| Last post | 2017-06-16 07:42 -0700 |
| Articles | 15 — 7 participants |
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When forth powered desktop pc? gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2017-06-13 09:01 -0700
Re: When forth powered desktop pc? Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2017-06-13 19:39 +0300
Re: When forth powered desktop pc? gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2017-06-13 12:57 -0700
Re: When forth powered desktop pc? Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2017-06-14 10:17 +0300
Re: When forth powered desktop pc? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-06-14 22:39 +1000
Re: When forth powered desktop pc? gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2017-06-14 08:10 -0700
Re: When forth powered desktop pc? gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2017-06-14 08:08 -0700
Re: When forth powered desktop pc? "Robert L." <No_spamming@noWhere_7073.org> - 2017-06-13 20:13 +0000
Re: When forth powered desktop pc? gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2017-06-13 19:32 -0700
Re: When forth powered desktop pc? Rod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem> - 2017-06-14 20:00 -0400
Re: When forth powered desktop pc? gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2017-06-15 11:14 -0700
Re: When forth powered desktop pc? minforth@arcor.de - 2017-06-15 11:57 -0700
Re: When forth powered desktop pc? gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2017-06-16 06:47 -0700
Re: When forth powered desktop pc? Konstantin Tcholokachvili <tcholoka@gmail.com> - 2017-06-16 07:26 -0700
Re: When forth powered desktop pc? gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2017-06-16 07:42 -0700
| From | gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-13 09:01 -0700 |
| Subject | When forth powered desktop pc? |
| Message-ID | <ec2119d7-9a3e-44b3-9c86-8d494ea60291@googlegroups.com> |
when?
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| From | Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-13 19:39 +0300 |
| Message-ID | <ohp49k$655$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #60699 |
On 13/06/2017 19:01, gavino himself wrote: > when? When you pay someone to make it.
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| From | gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-13 12:57 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <06d29835-331e-4bca-b51c-d5bb7b05bcec@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #60702 |
On Tuesday, June 13, 2017 at 12:39:42 PM UTC-4, Ron Aaron wrote: > On 13/06/2017 19:01, gavino himself wrote: > > when? > > When you pay someone to make it. IM no g144 expert! nor colorforth!
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| From | Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-14 10:17 +0300 |
| Message-ID | <ohqnnl$q6b$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #60705 |
On 06/13/17 22:57, gavino himself wrote: > On Tuesday, June 13, 2017 at 12:39:42 PM UTC-4, Ron Aaron wrote: >> On 13/06/2017 19:01, gavino himself wrote: >>> when? >> >> When you pay someone to make it. > > IM no g144 expert! nor colorforth! Exactly. That's why you PAY SOMEONE who *is* an expert. Although, in the many years you've been posting here, you surely could have learned nuclear physics or anything else you had a mind to learn. Even Forth.
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| From | "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-14 22:39 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <ohraoe$i55$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #60711 |
Ron Aaron wrote: > On 06/13/17 22:57, gavino himself wrote: > > On Tuesday, June 13, 2017 at 12:39:42 PM UTC-4, Ron Aaron wrote: > >> On 13/06/2017 19:01, gavino himself wrote: > >>> when? > >> > >> When you pay someone to make it. > > > > IM no g144 expert! nor colorforth! > > Exactly. That's why you PAY SOMEONE who *is* an expert. > > Although, in the many years you've been posting here, you surely could > have learned nuclear physics or anything else you had a mind to learn. > > Even Forth. Gavino is a libertarian. Learning Forth would put him at the bottom of the food chain.
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| From | gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-14 08:10 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <f9275d31-e018-4f5f-be4a-2fc35fec60d2@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #60719 |
On Wednesday, June 14, 2017 at 8:38:42 AM UTC-4, HAA wrote: > Ron Aaron wrote: > > On 06/13/17 22:57, gavino himself wrote: > > > On Tuesday, June 13, 2017 at 12:39:42 PM UTC-4, Ron Aaron wrote: > > >> On 13/06/2017 19:01, gavino himself wrote: > > >>> when? > > >> > > >> When you pay someone to make it. > > > > > > IM no g144 expert! nor colorforth! > > > > Exactly. That's why you PAY SOMEONE who *is* an expert. > > > > Although, in the many years you've been posting here, you surely could > > have learned nuclear physics or anything else you had a mind to learn. > > > > Even Forth. > > Gavino is a libertarian. Learning Forth would put him at the bottom of the > food chain. I am not I am an objectivist, since Gary Johnson is basically a democrat. A real free market person is against all marrige not just gay. Get government to stop regulating things and just enforce property and free production and trade. Thorium atomic, no climate change, big cheap houses, women fixed at 10 and charged 500k for kid I am a liberal, deregulate!
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| From | gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-14 08:08 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <8830e3e3-a9f3-4eea-944f-11a6df6d75b6@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #60711 |
On Wednesday, June 14, 2017 at 3:17:36 AM UTC-4, Ron Aaron wrote: > On 06/13/17 22:57, gavino himself wrote: > > On Tuesday, June 13, 2017 at 12:39:42 PM UTC-4, Ron Aaron wrote: > >> On 13/06/2017 19:01, gavino himself wrote: > >>> when? > >> > >> When you pay someone to make it. > > > > IM no g144 expert! nor colorforth! > > Exactly. That's why you PAY SOMEONE who *is* an expert. > > Although, in the many years you've been posting here, you surely could > have learned nuclear physics or anything else you had a mind to learn. > > Even Forth. What are you doing lately with forth ron? do you run any e commerce kinda wesbites? What do you think of werc.cat-v.org? https://shirakumo.github.io/radiance-homepage/ happstack.com?
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| From | "Robert L." <No_spamming@noWhere_7073.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-13 20:13 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <ohph1v$1rbu$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #60699 |
On 6/13/2017, gavino himself wrote:
> when?
(use srfi-1)
(use srfi-41) ;; streams
(for-each print
(stream->list 9
(stream-map
(lambda(i s) (format "~a. ~a" i s))
(stream-scan + 0 (stream-from 1))
(list->stream
(circular-list
(string-intersperse
(flatten (zip '("When" "get" "of") '("Gavin S." "brain" "man?")))
" "))))))
0. When Gavin S. get brain of man?
1. When Gavin S. get brain of man?
3. When Gavin S. get brain of man?
6. When Gavin S. get brain of man?
10. When Gavin S. get brain of man?
15. When Gavin S. get brain of man?
21. When Gavin S. get brain of man?
28. When Gavin S. get brain of man?
36. When Gavin S. get brain of man?
--
When the Israeli bombers and torpedo-planes were sent to attack and destroy the
ship, the Jewish commander, seeing that it was an American vessel, had
misgivings and reported to the High Command, which simply repeated the orders
to attack and sink the Liberty. www.revilo-oliver.com/rpo/Bit_of_Good_News.html
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| From | gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-13 19:32 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <3b344e85-826d-4ba7-a533-925fda7be44f@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #60706 |
On Tuesday, June 13, 2017 at 4:13:58 PM UTC-4, Robert L. wrote:
> On 6/13/2017, gavino himself wrote:
>
> > when?
>
> (use srfi-1)
> (use srfi-41) ;; streams
>
> (for-each print
> (stream->list 9
> (stream-map
> (lambda(i s) (format "~a. ~a" i s))
> (stream-scan + 0 (stream-from 1))
> (list->stream
> (circular-list
> (string-intersperse
> (flatten (zip '("When" "get" "of") '("Gavin S." "brain" "man?")))
> " "))))))
>
>
> 0. When Gavin S. get brain of man?
> 1. When Gavin S. get brain of man?
> 3. When Gavin S. get brain of man?
> 6. When Gavin S. get brain of man?
> 10. When Gavin S. get brain of man?
> 15. When Gavin S. get brain of man?
> 21. When Gavin S. get brain of man?
> 28. When Gavin S. get brain of man?
> 36. When Gavin S. get brain of man?
>
> --
> When the Israeli bombers and torpedo-planes were sent to attack and destroy the
> ship, the Jewish commander, seeing that it was an American vessel, had
> misgivings and reported to the High Command, which simply repeated the orders
> to attack and sink the Liberty. www.revilo-oliver.com/rpo/Bit_of_Good_News.html
can forth outperform php ruby python java c?
ada?
gnoga.com
swi prolog?
is forth the best?
is it really simpler?
gforth?
I dont think I can learn coloforth...
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| From | Rod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-14 20:00 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <20170614200034.4dbdfa54@_> |
| In reply to | #60709 |
On Tue, 13 Jun 2017 19:32:20 -0700 (PDT) gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> wrote: > can forth outperform php ruby python java c? Outperform? Unlikely. All high-level languages are converted to assembly. (Actually, it's converted to the processor's binary instruction format, but this is usually referred to as "assembly" since no one programs in binary.) So, the best outcome is the most optimized assembly for the given task. A good compiler will generate very optimized assembly. If you have two high-level languages whose compilers generate excellently optimized assembly, how can one outperform the other? They'll both basically generate the exact same code for the same task. I.e., you're limited by the assembly language of the microprocessor, if you have a good optimizing compiler for your high-level language. If you don't have a good optimizing compiler, then you're limited by the compiler or your ability to code efficiently. > is forth the best? The best is the language which most accurately and easily expresses the problem you're attempting to solve via your program. This can be measured in various ways. One way is called the "code density" of a language. There are all sorts of metrics to measure code density, e.g., "function points." > is it really simpler? In certain aspects, Forth really is simpler than the C language. That's not a good thing. Simplicity can mean much more work for you. In Forth, you must keep track of items on a stack, i.e., stack juggling. C does much of this for you and hides much of it too. So, the question you should ask is: "is it really easier?" I'd argue that *NOT* having to handle certain types of simplicity makes the language simpler, as in less work. Let's call that being easier. Personally, one reason I don't like assembly is because of the simplicity. There is no easy way to implement variables in many assembly languages. The variable may be in memory where you need to reference it by a memory address, or it may be in a register where you need to reference it by a register name, or it may be on the stack where you need to reference it by an offset to another register, usually. There is no unified method to access a variable in assembly, i.e., you can't access it by name no matter where the value is located, unlike a high-level language. Arguably, assembly is simpler, but it's not easier. Whereas, with a high-level language like C, variables are available. Variables make my life easier, hence simpler. > I dont think I can learn coloforth... Why? Unavailable? Too complex? Colorblind? Low IQ? Handicapped? Medicated? What? Rod Pemberton -- The Paris Agreement is irrelevant. A carbon tax is futile. The only solution is technology. Please tell Elon Musk that he is not being a technology visionary.
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| From | gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-15 11:14 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <e834a5ff-eed7-4127-a964-320f17d9f5f4@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #60764 |
On Wednesday, June 14, 2017 at 7:59:24 PM UTC-4, Rod Pemberton wrote: > On Tue, 13 Jun 2017 19:32:20 -0700 (PDT) > gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> wrote: > > > can forth outperform php ruby python java c? > > Outperform? Unlikely. > > All high-level languages are converted to assembly. (Actually, it's > converted to the processor's binary instruction format, but this is > usually referred to as "assembly" since no one programs in binary.) > So, the best outcome is the most optimized assembly for the given > task. A good compiler will generate very optimized assembly. If you > have two high-level languages whose compilers generate excellently > optimized assembly, how can one outperform the other? They'll both > basically generate the exact same code for the same task. I.e., you're > limited by the assembly language of the microprocessor, if you have a > good optimizing compiler for your high-level language. If you don't > have a good optimizing compiler, then you're limited by the compiler or > your ability to code efficiently. > > > is forth the best? > > The best is the language which most accurately and easily expresses the > problem you're attempting to solve via your program. This can be > measured in various ways. One way is called the "code density" of > a language. There are all sorts of metrics to measure code density, > e.g., "function points." > > > is it really simpler? > > In certain aspects, Forth really is simpler than the C language. That's > not a good thing. Simplicity can mean much more work for you. In > Forth, you must keep track of items on a stack, i.e., stack juggling. > C does much of this for you and hides much of it too. So, the question > you should ask is: "is it really easier?" I'd argue that *NOT* having > to handle certain types of simplicity makes the language simpler, as in > less work. Let's call that being easier. Personally, one reason I > don't like assembly is because of the simplicity. There is no easy way > to implement variables in many assembly languages. The variable may be > in memory where you need to reference it by a memory address, or it may > be in a register where you need to reference it by a register name, or > it may be on the stack where you need to reference it by an offset to > another register, usually. There is no unified method to access a > variable in assembly, i.e., you can't access it by name no matter where > the value is located, unlike a high-level language. Arguably, assembly > is simpler, but it's not easier. Whereas, with a high-level language > like C, variables are available. Variables make my life easier, hence > simpler. > > > I dont think I can learn coloforth... > > Why? Unavailable? Too complex? Colorblind? Low IQ? Handicapped? > Medicated? What? > > > Rod Pemberton > -- > The Paris Agreement is irrelevant. A carbon tax is futile. The only > solution is technology. Please tell Elon Musk that he is not being a > technology visionary. colorforth run on amd64? any web browser in colorforth? MY iq is high but I have never done much real programming...mostly bash n awk
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| From | minforth@arcor.de |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-15 11:57 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <ef5f699d-3571-4564-8639-c682f7ea7ec1@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #60789 |
Am Donnerstag, 15. Juni 2017 20:14:37 UTC+2 schrieb gavino himself: > On Wednesday, June 14, 2017 at 7:59:24 PM UTC-4, Rod Pemberton wrote: > > On Tue, 13 Jun 2017 19:32:20 -0700 (PDT) > > gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > can forth outperform php ruby python java c? > > > > Outperform? Unlikely. > > > > All high-level languages are converted to assembly. (Actually, it's > > converted to the processor's binary instruction format, but this is > > usually referred to as "assembly" since no one programs in binary.) > > So, the best outcome is the most optimized assembly for the given > > task. A good compiler will generate very optimized assembly. If you > > have two high-level languages whose compilers generate excellently > > optimized assembly, how can one outperform the other? They'll both > > basically generate the exact same code for the same task. I.e., you're > > limited by the assembly language of the microprocessor, if you have a > > good optimizing compiler for your high-level language. If you don't > > have a good optimizing compiler, then you're limited by the compiler or > > your ability to code efficiently. > > > > > is forth the best? > > > > The best is the language which most accurately and easily expresses the > > problem you're attempting to solve via your program. This can be > > measured in various ways. One way is called the "code density" of > > a language. There are all sorts of metrics to measure code density, > > e.g., "function points." > > > > > is it really simpler? > > > > In certain aspects, Forth really is simpler than the C language. That's > > not a good thing. Simplicity can mean much more work for you. In > > Forth, you must keep track of items on a stack, i.e., stack juggling. > > C does much of this for you and hides much of it too. So, the question > > you should ask is: "is it really easier?" I'd argue that *NOT* having > > to handle certain types of simplicity makes the language simpler, as in > > less work. Let's call that being easier. Personally, one reason I > > don't like assembly is because of the simplicity. There is no easy way > > to implement variables in many assembly languages. The variable may be > > in memory where you need to reference it by a memory address, or it may > > be in a register where you need to reference it by a register name, or > > it may be on the stack where you need to reference it by an offset to > > another register, usually. There is no unified method to access a > > variable in assembly, i.e., you can't access it by name no matter where > > the value is located, unlike a high-level language. Arguably, assembly > > is simpler, but it's not easier. Whereas, with a high-level language > > like C, variables are available. Variables make my life easier, hence > > simpler. > > > > > I dont think I can learn coloforth... > > > > Why? Unavailable? Too complex? Colorblind? Low IQ? Handicapped? > > Medicated? What? > > > > > > Rod Pemberton > > -- > > The Paris Agreement is irrelevant. A carbon tax is futile. The only > > solution is technology. Please tell Elon Musk that he is not being a > > technology visionary. > > colorforth run on amd64? > any web browser in colorforth? > MY iq is high but I have never done much real programming...mostly bash n awk I think you got bash-ed somewhere, too, posting tons of awk-ward questions in prograsmmer forums. low eq perhaps, too?
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| From | gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-16 06:47 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <8e21a06e-ea78-4323-97c3-490638356b55@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #60790 |
On Thursday, June 15, 2017 at 2:57:29 PM UTC-4, minf...@arcor.de wrote: > Am Donnerstag, 15. Juni 2017 20:14:37 UTC+2 schrieb gavino himself: > > On Wednesday, June 14, 2017 at 7:59:24 PM UTC-4, Rod Pemberton wrote: > > > On Tue, 13 Jun 2017 19:32:20 -0700 (PDT) > > > gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > can forth outperform php ruby python java c? > > > > > > Outperform? Unlikely. > > > > > > All high-level languages are converted to assembly. (Actually, it's > > > converted to the processor's binary instruction format, but this is > > > usually referred to as "assembly" since no one programs in binary.) > > > So, the best outcome is the most optimized assembly for the given > > > task. A good compiler will generate very optimized assembly. If you > > > have two high-level languages whose compilers generate excellently > > > optimized assembly, how can one outperform the other? They'll both > > > basically generate the exact same code for the same task. I.e., you're > > > limited by the assembly language of the microprocessor, if you have a > > > good optimizing compiler for your high-level language. If you don't > > > have a good optimizing compiler, then you're limited by the compiler or > > > your ability to code efficiently. > > > > > > > is forth the best? > > > > > > The best is the language which most accurately and easily expresses the > > > problem you're attempting to solve via your program. This can be > > > measured in various ways. One way is called the "code density" of > > > a language. There are all sorts of metrics to measure code density, > > > e.g., "function points." > > > > > > > is it really simpler? > > > > > > In certain aspects, Forth really is simpler than the C language. That's > > > not a good thing. Simplicity can mean much more work for you. In > > > Forth, you must keep track of items on a stack, i.e., stack juggling. > > > C does much of this for you and hides much of it too. So, the question > > > you should ask is: "is it really easier?" I'd argue that *NOT* having > > > to handle certain types of simplicity makes the language simpler, as in > > > less work. Let's call that being easier. Personally, one reason I > > > don't like assembly is because of the simplicity. There is no easy way > > > to implement variables in many assembly languages. The variable may be > > > in memory where you need to reference it by a memory address, or it may > > > be in a register where you need to reference it by a register name, or > > > it may be on the stack where you need to reference it by an offset to > > > another register, usually. There is no unified method to access a > > > variable in assembly, i.e., you can't access it by name no matter where > > > the value is located, unlike a high-level language. Arguably, assembly > > > is simpler, but it's not easier. Whereas, with a high-level language > > > like C, variables are available. Variables make my life easier, hence > > > simpler. > > > > > > > I dont think I can learn coloforth... > > > > > > Why? Unavailable? Too complex? Colorblind? Low IQ? Handicapped? > > > Medicated? What? > > > > > > > > > Rod Pemberton > > > -- > > > The Paris Agreement is irrelevant. A carbon tax is futile. The only > > > solution is technology. Please tell Elon Musk that he is not being a > > > technology visionary. > > > > colorforth run on amd64? > > any web browser in colorforth? > > MY iq is high but I have never done much real programming...mostly bash n awk > > I think you got bash-ed somewhere, too, posting tons of awk-ward questions > in prograsmmer forums. low eq perhaps, too? Elon Musk should be tortured to death!! He is crony communist who stole billions nof tax money and then used financial system to keep patents and sell shares. All of the money is owed the taxpayers and soalr city -10B failure. Paypal semi scam by israel. He is not a free market guy. FAR from it. Awk is awesome. check this out werc.cat-v.org
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| From | Konstantin Tcholokachvili <tcholoka@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-16 07:26 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <6be3d4a3-1c33-4aa5-97af-640d331b4042@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #60789 |
On Thursday, June 15, 2017 at 8:14:37 PM UTC+2, gavino himself wrote: > colorforth run on amd64? Yes, it's on the way: https://github.com/narke/Iridescence
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| From | gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-16 07:42 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <f02ff036-638b-48da-be95-5d854adc8821@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #60830 |
On Friday, June 16, 2017 at 10:26:48 AM UTC-4, Konstantin Tcholokachvili wrote: > On Thursday, June 15, 2017 at 8:14:37 PM UTC+2, gavino himself wrote: > > colorforth run on amd64? > > Yes, it's on the way: https://github.com/narke/Iridescence nice
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