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Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities

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Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> writes:
>On Sat, 27 Feb 2016 07:15:05 GMT
>anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) wrote:
>
>> Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> writes:
>
>> >Buffer overflows work in C because C uses a combined data stack and
>> >return stack, i.e., stack frame.  
>> 
>> No.
>
>Yes, that's why such attacks work in C, going all the way
>back to the original Morris worm.
>
>> Separating the return addresses is not sufficient to preventing
>> arbitrary code execution.
>
>True, but that wasn't in the scope of your original post.

Everything one can do with a buffer overflow attack was in the scope
of my original posting; I mentioned return-address stuff as an
example, but an example does not define the scope (at least not for
me).

>> If return addresses were separate, attackers would overwrite
>> function pointers.
>
>Yes, if they can find them.  The entire reason that overflow
>attacks are used is because:
>
>1) they're easy, and
>2) they work
>
>Searching for pointers to functions in code, which may or may
>not be over-writable, and which may or may not be executable,
>isn't easy.  Accessing a stack with control-flow data or saved
>return address via a register or simple function, such as the
>return stack in Forth or a stack frame for most C implementations,
>is much easier.

The function pointers are in the data, and finding one is as easy as
finding a return address: Once you have found an unprotected buffer,
just trace all the memory reads from the area behind the buffer, and
if one of them (directly or indirectly) leads to an indirect branch
(whether plain indirect jump, indirect call, or a return), that's your
point of entrance.

>Then, you may need to separate buffer space and/or variable space
>from code space and (fixed) data space.

Now what if you have an array containing xts?  Where do you put it?
More and more complicated separation regimes make things a little
harder for the attacker, but they tend to work around such measures.
I think it's better to avoid the buffer overflow in the first place.

- anton
-- 
M. Anton Ertl  http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
     New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
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Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-02-26 13:38 +0000
  Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2016-02-26 16:05 +0000
  Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-02-26 17:18 -0500
    Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2016-02-26 22:53 -0800
    Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-02-27 07:15 +0000
      Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-02-27 04:54 -0600
      Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2016-02-27 14:27 +0000
        Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-02-27 15:31 +0000
          Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2016-03-01 16:30 +0000
            Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-03-02 10:04 +0000
              Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2016-03-02 08:41 -0500
              Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2016-03-02 23:22 +0000
                Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2016-03-02 22:57 -0800
                Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-03-03 13:50 +0000
                Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2016-03-04 21:01 +0000
                Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-03-06 10:55 +0000
      Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-02-27 11:31 -0500
        Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-02-27 17:14 +0000
  Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2016-02-27 18:59 +0200
    Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-02-27 17:04 +0000
      Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2016-02-27 19:18 +0200
        Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-02-28 14:21 +0000
  Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-03-02 21:18 -1000
    Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2016-03-03 10:23 +0000
      Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-03-03 14:22 +0000
    Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-03-03 04:53 -0600
      Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2016-03-03 13:15 +0000
        Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-03-04 04:34 -0600
          Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-03-04 04:56 -0600
            Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2016-03-04 12:07 +0000
              Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-03-04 09:48 -0600
              Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-03-04 17:11 +0000
          Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2016-03-04 11:55 +0000
    Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-03-03 11:33 +0000
      Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-03-04 20:55 -0500
    Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2016-03-05 02:55 -0800
      Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-03-10 22:39 -0800
        Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-03-12 12:44 +0000

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