Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities

From	Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
Subject	Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities
Date	2016-02-27 18:59 +0200
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<naskf0$tts$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	<2016Feb26.143842@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>

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On 26/02/2016 15:38, Anton Ertl wrote:
> A frequent source of vulnerabilities in C is buffer overflows:

Not just C...

> So what else can we do?  The idea I am going to explore here is to
> limit the part where you have to take special care to a small part of
> the program; that goes nicely with the idea that you write an
> application-specific wordset and use that to program the application.

I realize you're taking about ANS Forth, but this category of problems
is one which I've worked on eliminating in 8th's design.  The solutions
used there won't necessarily apply to Forth, but I'll mention for your
consideration:

The user is never* given direct access to memory (* except via the FFI,
which remains and will probably always remain an Achilles heel).  So it
is impossible to poke values into arbitrary memory.

The return stack is not accessible at all.  The "r@" etc words use an
auxiliary stack and have nothing to do with the return stack.  So it's
not possible to subvert the return stack by overwriting somehow with the
"r" words.

String/buffer/array access cannot ever access beyond the limits of the
item (or, in the case of an array, simply grows the array).  So it is
impossible to create a buffer and write off the end of it.

There is no facility for in-memory assembly (because you cannot poke
bytes into executable memory).

Again: I realize these are not going to be useful to ANS Forth, but
perhaps they can give some ideas of things which might be explored in
other ways?

Thread

Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-02-26 13:38 +0000
  Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2016-02-26 16:05 +0000
  Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-02-26 17:18 -0500
    Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2016-02-26 22:53 -0800
    Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-02-27 07:15 +0000
      Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-02-27 04:54 -0600
      Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2016-02-27 14:27 +0000
        Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-02-27 15:31 +0000
          Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2016-03-01 16:30 +0000
            Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-03-02 10:04 +0000
              Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2016-03-02 08:41 -0500
              Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2016-03-02 23:22 +0000
                Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2016-03-02 22:57 -0800
                Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-03-03 13:50 +0000
                Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2016-03-04 21:01 +0000
                Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-03-06 10:55 +0000
      Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-02-27 11:31 -0500
        Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-02-27 17:14 +0000
  Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2016-02-27 18:59 +0200
    Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-02-27 17:04 +0000
      Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2016-02-27 19:18 +0200
        Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-02-28 14:21 +0000
  Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-03-02 21:18 -1000
    Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2016-03-03 10:23 +0000
      Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-03-03 14:22 +0000
    Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-03-03 04:53 -0600
      Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2016-03-03 13:15 +0000
        Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-03-04 04:34 -0600
          Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-03-04 04:56 -0600
            Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2016-03-04 12:07 +0000
              Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-03-04 09:48 -0600
              Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-03-04 17:11 +0000
          Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2016-03-04 11:55 +0000
    Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-03-03 11:33 +0000
      Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-03-04 20:55 -0500
    Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2016-03-05 02:55 -0800
      Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-03-10 22:39 -0800
        Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-03-12 12:44 +0000

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