Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities

From	anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl)
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
Subject	Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities
Date	2016-02-27 15:31 +0000
Organization	Institut fuer Computersprachen, Technische Universitaet Wien
Message-ID	<2016Feb27.163105@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> (permalink)
References	<2016Feb26.143842@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <20160226171816.2a1470dc@_> <2016Feb27.081505@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <nasbol$614$1@dont-email.me>

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Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> writes:
>Am Sat, 27 Feb 2016 07:15:05 +0000 schrieb Anton Ertl:
>Having a dictionary layout similar to a Flash system (write-once code in 
>one segment, write-many buffers and variables in another segment) could 
>prevent accidential overwriting of code.

I am not sure that accidental overwriting of data is better (even if
it is not code addresses).

As for vulnerabilities: In Gforth the native code is separated from
the data, but the headers, including the code address, are mixed with
the data, and that is enough to allow arbitrary code execution.  If
you have

create buf 100 allot
variable foo

and the attacker can write beyond the end of BUF, you don't even need
to store an xt in FOO and later EXECUTE it to get arbitrary code
execution; overwriting the code address of FOO is enough if FOO is
later text-interpreted, EXECUTEd, or somesuch.

Separate headers help against that, but there is still the issue of
xts in the data.  So the way to deal with that is to get rid of the
buffer overflows; trying to prevent arbitrary code execution while
leaving the buffer overflows does not work in the general case (and
rarely in specific cases).

>The thing that helps Forth a lot more against buffer overflow 
>is that the length of a buffer operation is always explicit.

It probably reduces the number of such vulnerabilities, but the
programmer can still make a mistake when passing the buffer length.
Storing the buffer length (not content length) before the start of the
buffer, and letting all words that write to a buffer check that length
should reduce the number of such vulnerabilities further.
Disadvantage: We would need variants of buffer-writing words that do
that check, just like the C11 people have all these ..._s library
functions.  The word counters will not like it.

- anton
-- 
M. Anton Ertl  http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
     New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
   EuroForth 2015: http://www.rigwit.co.uk/EuroForth2015/

Thread

Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-02-26 13:38 +0000
  Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2016-02-26 16:05 +0000
  Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-02-26 17:18 -0500
    Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2016-02-26 22:53 -0800
    Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-02-27 07:15 +0000
      Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-02-27 04:54 -0600
      Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2016-02-27 14:27 +0000
        Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-02-27 15:31 +0000
          Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2016-03-01 16:30 +0000
            Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-03-02 10:04 +0000
              Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2016-03-02 08:41 -0500
              Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2016-03-02 23:22 +0000
                Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2016-03-02 22:57 -0800
                Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-03-03 13:50 +0000
                Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2016-03-04 21:01 +0000
                Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-03-06 10:55 +0000
      Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-02-27 11:31 -0500
        Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-02-27 17:14 +0000
  Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2016-02-27 18:59 +0200
    Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-02-27 17:04 +0000
      Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2016-02-27 19:18 +0200
        Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-02-28 14:21 +0000
  Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-03-02 21:18 -1000
    Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2016-03-03 10:23 +0000
      Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-03-03 14:22 +0000
    Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-03-03 04:53 -0600
      Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2016-03-03 13:15 +0000
        Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-03-04 04:34 -0600
          Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-03-04 04:56 -0600
            Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2016-03-04 12:07 +0000
              Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-03-04 09:48 -0600
              Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-03-04 17:11 +0000
          Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2016-03-04 11:55 +0000
    Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-03-03 11:33 +0000
      Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-03-04 20:55 -0500
    Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2016-03-05 02:55 -0800
      Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-03-10 22:39 -0800
        Re: Avoiding memory access vulnerabilities anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-03-12 12:44 +0000

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