Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)?

From	anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl)
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
Subject	Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)?
Date	2014-03-18 13:13 +0000
Organization	Institut fuer Computersprachen, Technische Universitaet Wien
Message-ID	<2014Mar18.141309@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> (permalink)
References	(7 earlier) <lfqc4l$hlm$1@online.de> <05495091-14c4-4940-9573-70b188ef98c5@googlegroups.com> <lfv3h1$fa$1@dont-email.me> <lfv7l8$ujk$1@online.de> <7xeh20rxd5.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

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Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> writes:
>1) "Lambda lifting": the inner function is syntactically converted to a
>top-level function that takes some extra parameters to get the values of
>the locals of outer functions that it references.  These parameters are
>added to the calls the inner function's call sites.  A later
>optimization pass can in some cases get rid of them for efficiency.

That's similar to what we are doing by keeping the stuff on the stack.
We do it manually, though.

>2) "Shallow binding" in old-fashioned dynamically scoped Lisps
>(including Emacs Lisp til recently).  Basically each name has a static
>dictionary entry with a cell containing its current value.  If you
>re-bind the symbol at a nested level, the old value (and the address of
>the value cell) get pushed on a control stack.  When the scope exits,
>those stack entries are unwound so the old value is restored.
>
>The latter is quite efficient and easy to implement, and was used in
>lots of significant Lisp systems, though it gave way to lexical scope as
>it was deemed to get confusing as programs got larger.  It might be ok
>for Forth which is focused more on small programs anyway.

That can be done manually in Forth easily.

As for being ok: We have already had cases where the 90% solution led
to problems, e.g., STATE-smartness.  If the programmer chooses to go
there, ok, but then we don't need something that looks like local
variables: A programmer can easily get that effect by using global
variables.

So IMO for non-local access to local variables, if we choose to
support that, the way to go is lexical scoping.  It even won out in
Lisp, even though dynamic scoping was firmly entrenched there.

- anton
-- 
M. Anton Ertl  http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
     New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
   EuroForth 2013: http://www.euroforth.org/ef13/

Thread

What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2013-12-17 23:56 -0800
  Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? mhx@iae.nl - 2013-12-18 01:14 -0800
    Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-12-18 01:34 -0800
    Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2013-12-18 02:33 -0800
      Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2013-12-18 14:36 +0100
        Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2013-12-18 06:24 -0800
          Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2013-12-19 02:54 +0100
            Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2013-12-18 22:12 -0800
      Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? mhx@iae.nl - 2013-12-18 05:43 -0800
  Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-12-18 11:21 +0000
    Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2013-12-18 04:31 -0800
      Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2013-12-18 04:49 -0800
        Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2013-12-18 05:12 -0800
  Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-12-18 08:26 -1000
    Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-12-18 11:03 -0800
      Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2013-12-18 11:21 -0800
    Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2013-12-18 11:19 -0800
      Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-12-18 10:08 -1000
        Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-12-18 21:58 +0100
          Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? "Ed" <invalid@invalid.com> - 2013-12-19 14:15 +1100
            Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-12-19 13:32 +0000
              Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? "Ed" <invalid@invalid.com> - 2013-12-20 21:07 +1100
                Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-12-20 12:35 +0000
                Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-12-20 13:02 +0000
                Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? "Ed" <invalid@invalid.com> - 2013-12-22 14:19 +1100
                Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-12-22 10:15 +0000
                Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? "Ed" <invalid@invalid.com> - 2013-12-24 12:30 +1100
                Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-12-24 16:48 +0000
                Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? "Ed" <invalid@invalid.com> - 2013-12-28 11:08 +1100
                Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-12-28 11:40 +0000
                Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-12-26 18:03 +0000
                Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-12-26 10:34 -0800
                Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-12-27 15:53 +0000
                Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2013-12-28 17:26 +0000
                Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-12-28 17:53 +0000
                Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2013-12-28 18:21 +0000
                Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-12-29 14:49 +0000
                Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2013-12-29 20:45 +0000
                Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-12-30 17:08 +0000
                Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2013-12-30 20:00 +0000
                Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-12-28 18:04 +0000
                Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2013-12-28 18:47 +0000
                Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2013-12-28 19:12 +0000
                Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? "Ed" <invalid@invalid.com> - 2013-12-28 11:09 +1100
                Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-12-28 13:45 +0000
          Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Elizabeth D Rather <erather@forth.com> - 2013-12-18 19:04 -1000
            Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-12-19 09:25 +0000
            Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-12-19 05:00 -0800
        Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2013-12-18 23:41 -0800
        Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2013-12-19 01:00 -0800
        Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2013-12-19 02:47 -0800
          Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2013-12-19 11:23 +0000
            Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2013-12-19 03:52 -0800
  Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-12-19 15:58 +0000
    Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-12-19 10:05 -0800
      Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-12-19 20:07 +0000
        Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-12-19 12:33 -0800
          Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-12-19 20:33 +0000
            Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-12-19 20:52 +0000
            Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-12-19 18:52 -0800
          Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-12-28 12:52 -0600
            Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-12-28 11:47 -0800
              Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-12-29 07:39 -0600
                Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-12-29 08:11 -0800
            Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-12-29 15:25 +0000
              Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-12-29 08:15 -0800
                Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-12-29 16:03 +0000
                Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2013-12-29 20:54 +0000
                Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? mhx@iae.nl - 2013-12-29 13:38 -0800
                Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-12-30 17:04 +0000
                Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2013-12-30 20:05 +0000
                Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-12-30 16:49 -0800
                Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-01-02 17:27 +0000
              Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-12-29 16:40 -0600
                Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-12-30 16:51 +0000
                Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-12-30 11:15 -0600
                Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-12-30 17:37 +0000
                Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-12-30 12:07 -0600
        Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-12-20 13:50 +0000
      Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-12-19 21:49 -0800
        Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-12-20 08:56 +0000
          Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-04-03 19:13 -0700
        Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2014-03-11 05:35 +0000
          Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-03-11 12:59 +0100
            Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-03-11 23:44 -0700
              Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Julian Fondren <ayrnieu@gmail.com> - 2014-03-12 11:48 -0700
                Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-03-12 20:21 +0100
                Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-03-12 23:35 -0700
                Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2014-03-14 14:25 +0000
                Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-03-14 16:36 +0100
                Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? mhx@iae.nl - 2014-03-14 11:27 -0700
                Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-03-16 17:38 -0700
                Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-03-17 03:35 -0400
                Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-03-17 20:36 -0700
                Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-03-18 13:13 +0000
                Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-03-18 14:28 +0000
                Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-03-18 10:10 -0700
                Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-03-25 12:54 -0700
                Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-03-25 23:09 -0700
                Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-03-26 13:49 +0000
                Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-03-26 22:07 +0100
                Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-03-20 22:11 -0700
                Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-03-28 22:18 -0700
                Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2014-03-29 10:57 +0000
                Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-03-13 16:42 +0000
          Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-03-11 12:51 +0000
            Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2014-03-11 14:54 +0000
    Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2013-12-19 21:36 -0800
      Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-12-20 16:56 +0000
    Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2013-12-19 23:24 -0800
      Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? mhx@iae.nl - 2013-12-20 02:05 -0800
      Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-12-20 12:41 +0000
        Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-12-20 17:46 +0000
          Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2013-12-21 08:11 -0800
            Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-12-23 10:07 +0000
              Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-12-23 19:31 +0100
                Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-12-26 17:45 +0000

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