Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]
Groups > comp.lang.forth > #27505
| From | anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.forth |
| Subject | Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? |
| Date | 2013-12-29 14:49 +0000 |
| Organization | Institut fuer Computersprachen, Technische Universitaet Wien |
| Message-ID | <2013Dec29.154905@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> (permalink) |
| References | (8 earlier) <7x61qbzck5.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <2013Dec27.165339@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <l9n1j5$h15$1@dont-email.me> <2013Dec28.185308@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <l9n4qj$4jb$1@dont-email.me> |
Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> writes:
>On 28/12/2013 17:53, Anton Ertl wrote:
>> Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> writes:
>>> Why do you say SAVE-INPUT and RESTORE-INPUT are a failure?
>>
>> They do not provide any guaranteed functionality, and it's unclear
>> what functionality they should guarantee. E.g., the following is
>> arguably a compliant, but useless implementation:
>>
>> : save-input 0 ;
>> : restore-input drop true ;
>>
>> So I have been quite reluctant to use it.
>>
>> Also, the specification of RESTORE-INPUT with both a flag and an
>> ambiguous condition points to the technical deficits of this kind of
>> interface.
>>
>> - anton
>>
>
>So why don't we attempt to correct these deficiencies. In practice they
>have worked on most Forths I have tried, the only exception being Win32
>Forth where it didn't always work and possibly still doesn't.
>
>Why not e.g.
>- forbid the useless implementation
>- SAVE-INPUT returns n=0 (or negative) if the input is non-restorable
>- remove the ambiguous condition from RESTORE-INPUT and replace it with
>a value for the returned flag e.g.
> -1 for non-restorable
> +1 for current input source incorrect
>
>If a system can't do these things it shouldn't provide SAVE-INPUT and
>RESTORE-INPUT.
>
>I suppose that would require an RfD, is it worth it?
Yes, you could write an RfD to tighten the specification of SAVE-INPUT
and RESTORE-INPUT, and this may be the best way to go forward from
where we are, if you want a standardized useful SAVE-INPUT
RESTORE-INPUT. Is it worth it? I don't know, but if you find your
uses of SAVE-INPUT RESTORE-INPUT useful, it would be nice if we had a
standard that actually specifies what you find useful.
As for removing the ambiguous condition, I am not sure if that is
feasible. I think this also covers the case where the data on the
stack does not come from SAVE-INPUT or where the data coming from
SAVE-INPUT was changed in some way.
But let's step one step back. If we did not already have SAVE-INPUT
RESTORE-INPUT in the standard, how would we best specify a word or
words that provide the functionality that you use SAVE-INPUT
RESTORE-INPUT for? Would a wrapper word (i.e., a word takes the stuff
you write between SAVE-INPUT and RESTORE-INPUT as xt) be useful for
you?
If so, I think it would be much easier to specify than an
appropriately tightended SAVE-INPUT RESTORE-INPUT. And that's one
reason why we are seeing more words with wrapper-style interfaces
(another reason is exceptions).
- anton
--
M. Anton Ertl http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
EuroForth 2013: http://www.euroforth.org/ef13/
Back to comp.lang.forth | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread
What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2013-12-17 23:56 -0800
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? mhx@iae.nl - 2013-12-18 01:14 -0800
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-12-18 01:34 -0800
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2013-12-18 02:33 -0800
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2013-12-18 14:36 +0100
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2013-12-18 06:24 -0800
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2013-12-19 02:54 +0100
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2013-12-18 22:12 -0800
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? mhx@iae.nl - 2013-12-18 05:43 -0800
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-12-18 11:21 +0000
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2013-12-18 04:31 -0800
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2013-12-18 04:49 -0800
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2013-12-18 05:12 -0800
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-12-18 08:26 -1000
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-12-18 11:03 -0800
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2013-12-18 11:21 -0800
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2013-12-18 11:19 -0800
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-12-18 10:08 -1000
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-12-18 21:58 +0100
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? "Ed" <invalid@invalid.com> - 2013-12-19 14:15 +1100
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-12-19 13:32 +0000
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? "Ed" <invalid@invalid.com> - 2013-12-20 21:07 +1100
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-12-20 12:35 +0000
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-12-20 13:02 +0000
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? "Ed" <invalid@invalid.com> - 2013-12-22 14:19 +1100
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-12-22 10:15 +0000
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? "Ed" <invalid@invalid.com> - 2013-12-24 12:30 +1100
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-12-24 16:48 +0000
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? "Ed" <invalid@invalid.com> - 2013-12-28 11:08 +1100
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-12-28 11:40 +0000
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-12-26 18:03 +0000
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-12-26 10:34 -0800
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-12-27 15:53 +0000
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2013-12-28 17:26 +0000
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-12-28 17:53 +0000
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2013-12-28 18:21 +0000
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-12-29 14:49 +0000
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2013-12-29 20:45 +0000
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-12-30 17:08 +0000
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2013-12-30 20:00 +0000
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-12-28 18:04 +0000
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2013-12-28 18:47 +0000
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2013-12-28 19:12 +0000
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? "Ed" <invalid@invalid.com> - 2013-12-28 11:09 +1100
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-12-28 13:45 +0000
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Elizabeth D Rather <erather@forth.com> - 2013-12-18 19:04 -1000
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-12-19 09:25 +0000
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-12-19 05:00 -0800
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2013-12-18 23:41 -0800
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2013-12-19 01:00 -0800
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2013-12-19 02:47 -0800
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2013-12-19 11:23 +0000
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2013-12-19 03:52 -0800
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-12-19 15:58 +0000
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-12-19 10:05 -0800
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-12-19 20:07 +0000
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-12-19 12:33 -0800
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-12-19 20:33 +0000
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-12-19 20:52 +0000
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-12-19 18:52 -0800
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-12-28 12:52 -0600
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-12-28 11:47 -0800
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-12-29 07:39 -0600
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-12-29 08:11 -0800
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-12-29 15:25 +0000
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-12-29 08:15 -0800
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-12-29 16:03 +0000
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2013-12-29 20:54 +0000
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? mhx@iae.nl - 2013-12-29 13:38 -0800
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-12-30 17:04 +0000
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2013-12-30 20:05 +0000
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-12-30 16:49 -0800
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-01-02 17:27 +0000
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-12-29 16:40 -0600
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-12-30 16:51 +0000
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-12-30 11:15 -0600
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-12-30 17:37 +0000
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-12-30 12:07 -0600
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-12-20 13:50 +0000
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-12-19 21:49 -0800
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-12-20 08:56 +0000
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-04-03 19:13 -0700
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2014-03-11 05:35 +0000
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-03-11 12:59 +0100
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-03-11 23:44 -0700
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Julian Fondren <ayrnieu@gmail.com> - 2014-03-12 11:48 -0700
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-03-12 20:21 +0100
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-03-12 23:35 -0700
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2014-03-14 14:25 +0000
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-03-14 16:36 +0100
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? mhx@iae.nl - 2014-03-14 11:27 -0700
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-03-16 17:38 -0700
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-03-17 03:35 -0400
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-03-17 20:36 -0700
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-03-18 13:13 +0000
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-03-18 14:28 +0000
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-03-18 10:10 -0700
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-03-25 12:54 -0700
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-03-25 23:09 -0700
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-03-26 13:49 +0000
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-03-26 22:07 +0100
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-03-20 22:11 -0700
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-03-28 22:18 -0700
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2014-03-29 10:57 +0000
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-03-13 16:42 +0000
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-03-11 12:51 +0000
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2014-03-11 14:54 +0000
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2013-12-19 21:36 -0800
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-12-20 16:56 +0000
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2013-12-19 23:24 -0800
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? mhx@iae.nl - 2013-12-20 02:05 -0800
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-12-20 12:41 +0000
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-12-20 17:46 +0000
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2013-12-21 08:11 -0800
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-12-23 10:07 +0000
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-12-23 19:31 +0100
Re: What about code blocks (not Forth blocks)? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-12-26 17:45 +0000
csiph-web