Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]


Groups > comp.lang.forth > #26770

Re: ?DUP

From anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl)
Newsgroups comp.lang.forth
Subject Re: ?DUP
Date 2013-10-31 12:09 +0000
Organization Institut fuer Computersprachen, Technische Universitaet Wien
Message-ID <2013Oct31.130928@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> (permalink)
References (5 earlier) <GvidnWdxN85RL_PPnZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d@supernews.com> <2013Oct29.125121@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <ur-dnbVptuRbte3PnZ2dnUVZ_vCdnZ2d@supernews.com> <2013Oct30.092213@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <OY-dnTKqvdwb2OzPnZ2dnUVZ_vWdnZ2d@supernews.com>

Show all headers | View raw


Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> writes:
>Anton Ertl <anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> wrote:
>> Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> writes:
>>>Anton Ertl <anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> wrote:
>>>> Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> writes:
>>>>>Anton Ertl <anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> wrote:
>> 
>>>> [Context omitted by Andrew Haley in an attempt to alter the meaning
>>>> and topic of this part of the discussion:]
>>>
>>>Yes, right.  That must be the reason.  Not the interminable length of
>>>the discussion.  Oh no.
>> 
>> You expect me to believe that you are not capable of following a line
>> of reasoning that's 16 lines long and fully cited?
>
>I don't know what you are referring to.
>
>I was not attempting to alter the meaning and topic of this part of
>the discussion; I was assuming that others don't need to see it
>repeated.  I thought the text I snipped wasn't essential.  I try to
>snip, as do you.  My intention was not malign.

The problem was not the snipping, but the combination of snipping and
changing the topic; the snipping made it non-obvious that you were not
replying to what I had written, but to a straw man.

>>>> Not "optimizing" ROT would not simplify the compiler.
>>>
>>>Why not?  Surely if you don't recognize ROT, but simply code it as a
>>>call to a definition, the optimizer is simpler.
>> 
>> Even a definition of ROT as a colon definition would result in
>> optimizing ROT.
>
>Why would not the same reasoning apply to optimizing ?DUP ?

Because ?DUP cannot just be performed at compile time on the
compile-time representation of the run-time stack, because what ?DUP
does to the stack depends on run-time values.

>> A direct definition would look maybe like this:
>> 
>> c: rot rot ; : rot rot ;
>
>This only makes sense if the compiler already has a built-in
>definition for ROT  .  Which makes the compiler more complex...

The Forth system on which the compiler is running (build system in gcc
terminology, I think) certainly has a built-in definition for ROT.
This does not make the compiler more complex, because it's the build
system's ROT, not the compiler's ROT.

For more explanations, see my answer to Rod Pemberton.  If there are
any questions remaining after that, I would be happy to answer them.

- anton
-- 
M. Anton Ertl  http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
     New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
   EuroForth 2013: http://www.euroforth.org/ef13/

Back to comp.lang.forth | Previous | NextPrevious in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread


Thread

Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-10-14 16:18 -0400
  Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-10-14 10:34 -1000
    Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-10-14 15:41 -0500
    Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-10-14 20:32 -0700
      Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-10-15 17:14 -0400
    Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-10-15 16:22 +0000
  Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-10-14 15:42 -0500
    Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2013-10-16 11:16 +0200
  Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-10-15 16:09 +0000
  Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2013-10-15 18:51 -0700
    Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-10-16 03:47 -0500
    Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-10-16 12:27 +0000
      Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-10-25 14:20 -0400
        Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-10-25 12:08 -0700
          Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-10-26 02:34 -0400
            Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-10-26 00:13 -0700
              Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-10-25 21:49 -1000
                Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-10-26 01:26 -0700
                Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-10-26 05:45 -0500
                Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-10-26 13:48 +0000
                Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-10-26 14:28 -0500
                Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-10-27 12:41 +0000
                Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-10-27 08:31 -0500
                ?DUP (was: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-10-28 15:19 +0000
                Re: ?DUP Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-10-28 13:54 -0500
                Re: ?DUP "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnohavenotit.cnm> - 2013-10-28 16:30 -0400
                Re: ?DUP "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-10-28 11:11 -1000
                Re: ?DUP anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-10-29 11:51 +0000
                Re: ?DUP Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-10-29 16:48 +0100
                Re: ?DUP anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-10-29 16:10 +0000
                Re: ?DUP albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-10-29 16:24 +0000
                Re: ?DUP Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-10-29 20:00 +0100
                Re: ?DUP anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-10-30 07:44 +0000
                Re: ?DUP Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-10-29 16:29 -0500
                Re: ?DUP "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnohavenotit.cnm> - 2013-10-29 18:58 -0400
                Re: ?DUP Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-10-30 03:15 -0500
                Re: ?DUP albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-10-30 01:14 +0000
                Re: ?DUP anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-10-30 08:22 +0000
                Re: ?DUP "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnohavenotit.cnm> - 2013-10-30 08:03 -0400
                Re: ?DUP anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-10-30 12:24 +0000
                Re: ?DUP Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-10-30 12:44 -0500
                Re: ?DUP "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-10-30 22:43 +0000
                Re: ?DUP anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-10-31 12:09 +0000
                Re: ?DUP Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-10-31 12:23 -0500
                Re: ?DUP (was: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack) "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnohavenotit.cnm> - 2013-10-28 16:30 -0400
                Re: ?DUP "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-10-28 11:16 -1000
                Re: ?DUP Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-10-29 01:58 +0100
                Re: ?DUP Stefan Mauerhofer <smauerhofer@androsoft.ch> - 2013-10-28 18:41 -0700
                Re: ?DUP Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-10-29 04:37 -0500
                Re: ?DUP m.a.m.hendrix@tue.nl - 2013-10-29 04:27 -0700
                Re: ?DUP anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-10-29 12:51 +0000
              Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-10-26 09:45 +0000
                Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-10-26 11:30 +0000
                Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-10-26 08:05 -0500
                Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack mhx@iae.nl - 2013-10-26 06:09 -0700
                Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@nohavenotit.com> - 2013-10-27 03:01 -0400
                Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-10-26 22:23 -1000
            Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-10-26 09:39 +0000
              Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-10-26 09:44 +0000
  Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack "Ed" <invalid@invalid.com> - 2013-10-18 14:09 +1000
    Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-10-17 21:21 -1000
      Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack "Ed" <invalid@invalid.com> - 2013-10-19 12:14 +1000
        Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-10-18 17:17 -1000
          Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-10-19 02:58 -0700
          Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack "Ed" <invalid@invalid.com> - 2013-10-27 22:33 +1100
            Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack mhx@iae.nl - 2013-10-27 06:21 -0700
              Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack "Ed" <invalid@invalid.com> - 2013-10-29 22:40 +1100
            Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-10-27 08:23 -0500
  Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack Stefan Mauerhofer <smauerhofer@androsoft.ch> - 2013-10-28 18:38 -0700

csiph-web