Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack

From	Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid>
Subject	Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
References	(5 earlier) <l4fnpl$fju$1@dont-email.me> <7xbo2co681.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <k4CdnQLNyIKW6fbPnZ2dnUVZ_sadnZ2d@supernews.com> <3_idnWekjL7WAPbPnZ2dnUVZ_qmdnZ2d@supernews.com> <2013Oct26.154815@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>
Message-ID	<EOadnQ8On7VBivHPnZ2dnUVZ_r-dnZ2d@supernews.com> (permalink)
Date	2013-10-26 14:28 -0500

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Anton Ertl <anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> wrote:
> Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> writes:
>>That's suprising to me too.  ?DUP WHILE is natural and elegant when
>>iterating over lists, for example.
> 
> ?DUP IF can save an ELSE DROP, and, depending on layout style,q up to
> two lines.  So i can understand the urge to use ?DUP IF there.
> 
> ?DUP WHILE only saves a DROP.  Natural and elegant?

Sure, it reduces stack noise.  What's not to like?  ;-)

> Maybe in the Bizarro World.

It's just natural and idiomatic for me.  I'd feel weird not using ?DUP .
That's almost certainly because the primary influence on my Forth is
Forth, Inc, and they've always used ?DUP .

> As for putting the burden on the compiler to correct for the
> programmer's use of ?DUP: This is Forth.  We argue even about good
> practices if they complicate the compiler.  Why should we complicate
> the compiler for "?DUP"?  Better let the programmers fix the
> programs.

There's no need: as well as not panicking about the compiler, it's
also good Forth style (IMO, YMMV, ect.)  not to panic about
microseconds which don't matter.  Having said that,  ?DUP IF  avoids
a couple of trips through NEXT , and this is a speed advantage in some
implementatons.  We shouldn't overgeneralize, because implementations
vary so much.

However, if you're going to write a full optimizing compiler, it's a
bit pathetic not to be able to turn  ?DUP IF ... THEN   into
DUP IF  ...  ELSE DROP  THEN .  I suppose it makes sense if that's
an idiom you don't use.

Andrew.

Thread

Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-10-14 16:18 -0400
  Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-10-14 10:34 -1000
    Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-10-14 15:41 -0500
    Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-10-14 20:32 -0700
      Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-10-15 17:14 -0400
    Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-10-15 16:22 +0000
  Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-10-14 15:42 -0500
    Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2013-10-16 11:16 +0200
  Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-10-15 16:09 +0000
  Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2013-10-15 18:51 -0700
    Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-10-16 03:47 -0500
    Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-10-16 12:27 +0000
      Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-10-25 14:20 -0400
        Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-10-25 12:08 -0700
          Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-10-26 02:34 -0400
            Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-10-26 00:13 -0700
              Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-10-25 21:49 -1000
                Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-10-26 01:26 -0700
                Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-10-26 05:45 -0500
                Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-10-26 13:48 +0000
                Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-10-26 14:28 -0500
                Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-10-27 12:41 +0000
                Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-10-27 08:31 -0500
                ?DUP (was: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-10-28 15:19 +0000
                Re: ?DUP Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-10-28 13:54 -0500
                Re: ?DUP "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnohavenotit.cnm> - 2013-10-28 16:30 -0400
                Re: ?DUP "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-10-28 11:11 -1000
                Re: ?DUP anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-10-29 11:51 +0000
                Re: ?DUP Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-10-29 16:48 +0100
                Re: ?DUP anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-10-29 16:10 +0000
                Re: ?DUP albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-10-29 16:24 +0000
                Re: ?DUP Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-10-29 20:00 +0100
                Re: ?DUP anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-10-30 07:44 +0000
                Re: ?DUP Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-10-29 16:29 -0500
                Re: ?DUP "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnohavenotit.cnm> - 2013-10-29 18:58 -0400
                Re: ?DUP Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-10-30 03:15 -0500
                Re: ?DUP albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-10-30 01:14 +0000
                Re: ?DUP anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-10-30 08:22 +0000
                Re: ?DUP "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnohavenotit.cnm> - 2013-10-30 08:03 -0400
                Re: ?DUP anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-10-30 12:24 +0000
                Re: ?DUP Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-10-30 12:44 -0500
                Re: ?DUP "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-10-30 22:43 +0000
                Re: ?DUP anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-10-31 12:09 +0000
                Re: ?DUP Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-10-31 12:23 -0500
                Re: ?DUP (was: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack) "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnohavenotit.cnm> - 2013-10-28 16:30 -0400
                Re: ?DUP "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-10-28 11:16 -1000
                Re: ?DUP Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-10-29 01:58 +0100
                Re: ?DUP Stefan Mauerhofer <smauerhofer@androsoft.ch> - 2013-10-28 18:41 -0700
                Re: ?DUP Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-10-29 04:37 -0500
                Re: ?DUP m.a.m.hendrix@tue.nl - 2013-10-29 04:27 -0700
                Re: ?DUP anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-10-29 12:51 +0000
              Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-10-26 09:45 +0000
                Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-10-26 11:30 +0000
                Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-10-26 08:05 -0500
                Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack mhx@iae.nl - 2013-10-26 06:09 -0700
                Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@nohavenotit.com> - 2013-10-27 03:01 -0400
                Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-10-26 22:23 -1000
            Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-10-26 09:39 +0000
              Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-10-26 09:44 +0000
  Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack "Ed" <invalid@invalid.com> - 2013-10-18 14:09 +1000
    Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-10-17 21:21 -1000
      Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack "Ed" <invalid@invalid.com> - 2013-10-19 12:14 +1000
        Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-10-18 17:17 -1000
          Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-10-19 02:58 -0700
          Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack "Ed" <invalid@invalid.com> - 2013-10-27 22:33 +1100
            Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack mhx@iae.nl - 2013-10-27 06:21 -0700
              Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack "Ed" <invalid@invalid.com> - 2013-10-29 22:40 +1100
            Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-10-27 08:23 -0500
  Re: Floating Point : To Stack or Not To Stack Stefan Mauerhofer <smauerhofer@androsoft.ch> - 2013-10-28 18:38 -0700

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