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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #20183

Re: State and the standard ...

From anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl)
Newsgroups comp.lang.forth
Subject Re: State and the standard ...
Date 2013-03-02 17:37 +0000
Organization Institut fuer Computersprachen, Technische Universitaet Wien
Message-ID <2013Mar2.183709@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> (permalink)
References <alpine.BSF.2.00.1302281120350.94888@yoko.controlq.com>

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Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> writes:
>How might one describe a standardized language similar to Forth in such a 
>way as to avoid the run-time/compile-time semantics, but still allow 
>create/does type extensibility?  Am I missing something obvious?

CREATE/DOES> has very little to do with that.

The issue is that you write

1 2 +

and can then wrap it in a colon def

: foo 1 2 + ;

and you write exactly the same sequence "1 2 +".  You can also extract
sequences from colon definitions and run them in the text interpreter.

But that does not work for all code.  One part where it breaks down is
parsing words like "'".  If you put

' + execute

in a colon definition, you don't get the same behaviour.  Some people,
like Andrew Haley and Elizabeth Rather, just accept that and say that
everybody should accept that.  Other people try to keep this property
even for parsing and control-flow words; one of the techniques used is
STATE-smart words, but they lead to problems, because they do not
always check STATE when the text interpreter sees them.  There are
three approaches to that

1) Some take it as a confirmation of their view that we should just
forget about that desired property and be happy with ' ['] and .( .".

2) Some say that the problems of STATE-smart words do not happen in
(their) practice, so we should not worry about them.

3) Some look for (and have found) better solutions that allow
implementing words like S" without getting the problems of STATE-smart
words.

- anton
-- 
M. Anton Ertl  http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
     New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
   EuroForth 2013: http://www.euroforth.org/ef13/

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Thread

State and the standard ... Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2013-02-28 11:35 -0500
  Re: State and the standard ... "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotz.cnm> - 2013-03-01 20:46 -0500
    Re: State and the standard ... Elizabeth D Rather <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-01 19:33 -1000
    Re: State and the standard ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-02 03:33 -0600
      Re: State and the standard ... "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotz.cnm> - 2013-03-03 18:09 -0500
        Re: State and the standard ... "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-03 15:01 -1000
        Re: State and the standard ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-04 03:06 -0600
        Re: State and the standard ... Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2013-03-04 11:38 +0100
  Re: State and the standard ... stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-03-02 11:34 +0000
    Re: State and the standard ... "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2013-03-02 13:47 +0100
    Re: State and the standard ... Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-02 14:07 +0100
    Re: State and the standard ... Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2013-03-02 12:38 -0500
      Re: State and the standard ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-02 15:50 -0600
        Re: State and the standard ... albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-02 22:11 +0000
          Re: State and the standard ... Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-03 02:51 +0100
            Re: State and the standard ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-03 14:56 +0000
              Re: State and the standard ... Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-03 22:42 +0100
                Re: State and the standard ... stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-03-03 22:02 +0000
                Re: State and the standard ... Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-03-04 00:19 -0800
                Re: State and the standard ... Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-05 00:14 +0100
                Re: State and the standard ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-08 16:34 +0000
                Re: State and the standard ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-07 18:04 +0000
                Re: State and the standard ... Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-08 01:31 +0100
                Re: State and the standard ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-08 14:41 +0000
                Re: State and the standard ... Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-09 17:04 +0100
                Re: State and the standard ... Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-03-08 02:19 -0800
                Re: State and the standard ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-08 04:25 -0600
                Re: State and the standard ... Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-03-08 03:35 -0800
                Re: State and the standard ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-08 06:58 -0600
                Re: State and the standard ... Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2013-03-08 20:57 +0100
          Re: State and the standard ... Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2013-03-03 11:25 -0500
            Re: State and the standard ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-03 15:13 -0600
              Re: State and the standard ... Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2013-03-04 20:55 +0100
                Re: State and the standard ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-04 15:17 -0600
                Re: State and the standard ... Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2013-03-05 00:27 +0100
                Re: State and the standard ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-04 18:41 -0600
                Re: State and the standard ... "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotz.cnm> - 2013-03-04 20:49 -0500
                Re: State and the standard ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-05 02:59 -0600
                Re: State and the standard ... Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-05 06:58 -0800
      Re: State and the standard ... Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-03-02 14:50 -0800
        Re: State and the standard ... Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2013-03-03 11:06 -0500
      Re: State and the standard ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-03 14:17 +0000
    Re: State and the standard ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-02 17:55 +0000
      Re: State and the standard ... Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-02 20:24 +0100
        Re: State and the standard ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-03 14:25 +0000
        Re: State and the standard ... Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2013-03-03 16:27 +0100
          Re: State and the standard ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-03 15:15 -0600
            Re: State and the standard ... Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-03-03 13:41 -0800
              Re: State and the standard ... Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-03-10 00:51 -0800
                Re: State and the standard ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-10 04:35 -0500
                Re: State and the standard ... Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-03-10 20:56 -0700
                Re: State and the standard ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-11 03:47 -0500
                Re: State and the standard ... Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-03-13 23:48 -0700
                Re: State and the standard ... "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-13 21:01 -1000
                Re: State and the standard ... Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-03-14 00:23 -0700
                Re: State and the standard ... Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2013-03-14 09:18 +0100
                Re: State and the standard ... Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2013-11-21 14:26 +0100
                Re: State and the standard ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-14 03:34 -0500
                Re: State and the standard ... albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-14 11:25 +0000
                Re: State and the standard ... Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-03-11 01:51 -0700
                Re: State and the standard ... Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-03-10 03:03 -0700
            Re: State and the standard ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-07 18:00 +0000
          Re: State and the standard ... Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-03 22:49 +0100
            Re: State and the standard ... "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2013-03-05 00:18 +0100
              Re: State and the standard ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-04 18:44 -0600
          intelligent COMPILE, and smart COMPILE, anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-04 17:52 +0000
            Re: intelligent COMPILE, and smart COMPILE, Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-05 00:49 +0100
              Re: intelligent COMPILE, and smart COMPILE, stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-03-05 10:55 +0000
      Re: State and the standard ... albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-02 22:22 +0000
  Re: State and the standard ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-02 17:37 +0000
    Re: State and the standard ... "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotz.cnm> - 2013-03-03 18:08 -0500
      Re: State and the standard ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-08 16:26 +0000
  Re: State and the standard ... Michael L Gassanenko <m_l_g3@yahoo.com> - 2013-03-04 23:08 -0800
    Re: State and the standard ... Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2013-03-05 10:47 -0500
      Re: State and the standard ... "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-05 08:11 -1000
        Re: State and the standard ... Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2013-03-05 13:44 -0500
          Re: State and the standard ... "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-05 09:26 -1000
            Re: State and the standard ... Michael L Gassanenko <m_l_g3@yahoo.com> - 2013-03-07 04:24 -0800
              Re: State and the standard ... Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2013-03-07 09:42 -0500
              Re: State and the standard ... "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-07 08:16 -1000
                Re: State and the standard ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-08 17:14 +0000
                Re: State and the standard ... "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-08 08:57 -1000
                Re: State and the standard ... Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-09 17:31 +0100
                Re: State and the standard ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-09 12:28 -0600
                Re: State and the standard ... Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-09 21:41 +0100
          Re: State and the standard ... "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-06 17:51 -0500
            Re: State and the standard ... "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-06 13:13 -1000
        Re: State and the standard ... "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-06 17:51 -0500
          Re: State and the standard ... "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-06 13:12 -1000
      Re: State and the standard ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-05 18:18 -0600
        Re: State and the standard ... Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2013-03-06 08:22 -0800
      Re: State and the standard ... "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-06 17:49 -0500
        Re: State and the standard ... Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2013-03-06 17:56 -0500
        Re: State and the standard ... Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2013-03-06 18:17 -0500
          Re: State and the standard ... "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-08 04:22 -0500

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