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Re: Self-taught C

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On 2012-02-09, Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> wrote:
> On Feb 9, 1:31 pm, Rui Maciel <rui.mac...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Malcolm McLean wrote:
>> > X is fundamentally misdesigned, because the idea is that the "client",
>> > which means sever, sends a stream of bytes over a network to the "X
>> > sever", which means client. However virtually no systems work like
>> > that, and in fact it's hard to get interactivity if the client is
>> > remote.
>>
>> If I'm not mistaken, the X window system was developed with remote clients
>> in mind and in a time where remote clients were the norm.  So, with that in
>> mind, I don't agree that X was fundamentally misdesigned.
>>
>> Fast-forward 30 years, nowadays we have clients sending and receiving
>> streams of bytes over a network to/from a server in order to provide a
>> graphical user interface, but instead of the X window system we have the
>> world wide web.  So, although it's a slightly different abstraction level,
>> it's essentially the same thing.
>>
> The problem is that the messages were wrong. In X the server sends a
> message "A key was pressed" and the client has to send back a mesage
> "please draw the letter X in such and such a font in that window". So
> of course the poor user would hammer the key again, then get a row of
> xes, then press delete several times, delete the lot, then tap the x
> key once, deliberately and smartly, and go for a coffee until he could
> type in the next character.

I sat in a lab full of X window terminals at university and don't remember
any of these problems.

X does require a fairly low latency connection to the server in order
to be useful.

> With the web interface the server says "put up an edit box". The
> client then allows the user to enter text. It then tells the server
> "the user has finished putting text into the boxes you told me to put
> up, and here's what he wrote".

But this basically brings you back to a command line interface. You can't
compare a window system with detailed mouse and keyboard events to form
submission (which requires some kind of GUI underneath it). That is completely
moronic.

If form submission were enough, we wouldn't have Javascript for developing
"desktop-like" apps (which don't even come close, usually). Javascript can
render the browser unresponsive, and is a gaping security hole.

I use the NoScript FireFox extension to explicitly allow Javascript
on a site-by-site basis.

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Self-taught C Sleepy Duke <josh.izzard@gmail.com> - 2012-02-03 09:24 -0800
  Re: Self-taught C "Bl0ckeduser ." <bl0ckedusersoft@gmail.com> - 2012-02-03 11:54 -0800
    Re: Self-taught C Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-05 04:34 -0800
  Re: Self-taught C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2012-02-04 05:38 -0800
    Re: Self-taught C Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2012-02-08 16:42 +0000
      Re: Self-taught C James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-02-08 11:50 -0500
        Re: Self-taught C Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2012-02-13 22:07 +0000
          Re: Self-taught C James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-02-13 17:25 -0500
      Re: Self-taught C Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-09 00:42 -0800
        Re: Self-taught C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2012-02-09 05:05 -0800
          Re: Self-taught C Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-02-09 13:31 +0000
            Re: Self-taught C Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-09 06:39 -0800
            Re: Self-taught C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2012-02-09 07:53 -0800
              Re: Self-taught C blp@cs.stanford.edu (Ben Pfaff) - 2012-02-09 09:32 -0800
                Re: Self-taught C Patrick Scheible <kkt@zipcon.net> - 2012-02-09 12:34 -0800
                Re: Self-taught C James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-02-09 16:06 -0500
                Re: Self-taught C Patrick Scheible <kkt@zipcon.net> - 2012-02-09 14:17 -0800
                Re: Self-taught C James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-02-09 17:46 -0500
                Re: Self-taught C "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2012-02-18 01:08 +0000
                Re: Self-taught C "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2012-02-19 18:23 +0100
                Re: Self-taught C blp@cs.stanford.edu (Ben Pfaff) - 2012-02-09 14:38 -0800
                Re: Self-taught C jgk@panix.com (Joe keane) - 2012-02-09 21:52 +0000
                Re: Self-taught C Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2012-02-09 16:08 -0600
              Re: Self-taught C Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2012-02-09 16:16 -0600
                Re: Self-taught C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-02-10 00:39 +0000
                Re: Self-taught C Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2012-02-10 10:50 -0600
                Re: Self-taught C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-02-10 22:21 +0000
              Re: Self-taught C Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2012-02-09 23:45 +0000
                Re: Self-taught C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2012-02-09 16:32 -0800
                Re: Self-taught C Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-02-10 11:24 +0000
                Re: Self-taught C Phil Carmody <thefatphil_demunged@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-02-21 23:19 +0200
                Re: Self-taught C Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> - 2012-02-22 08:54 +0100
              Re: Self-taught C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-02-10 00:38 +0000
            Re: Self-taught C Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2012-02-10 00:07 -0500
            Re: Self-taught C jgk@panix.com (Joe keane) - 2012-02-10 20:34 +0000
          Re: Self-taught C Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2012-02-09 23:36 +0000
          Re: Self-taught C Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2012-02-09 22:14 -0700
            Re: Self-taught C gwowen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2012-02-10 03:49 -0800
        Re: Self-taught C Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2012-02-13 22:12 +0000
      Re: Self-taught C Willem <willem@toad.stack.nl> - 2012-02-14 14:50 +0000
        Re: Self-taught C 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2012-02-14 09:49 -0800
  Re: Self-taught C Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-05 04:32 -0800
    Re: Self-taught C gwowen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2012-02-06 04:23 -0800
      Re: Self-taught C Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2012-02-06 22:34 -0700
        Re: Self-taught C Fritz Wuehler <fritz@spamexpire-201202.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> - 2012-02-07 10:26 +0100
          Re: Self-taught C Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-07 02:18 -0800
            Re: Self-taught C Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2012-02-07 22:28 +0000
          Re: Self-taught C JohnF <john@please.see.sig.for.email.com> - 2012-02-08 04:05 +0000
    Re: Self-taught C Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-02-08 10:31 +0000
      Re: Self-taught C Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-09 00:51 -0800
      Re: Self-taught C Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2012-02-09 21:26 -0500
  Re: Self-taught C James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-02-07 07:53 -0500
  Re: Self-taught C notbob <notbob@nothome.com> - 2012-02-07 14:29 +0000
    Re: Self-taught C Barry Schwarz <schwarzb@dqel.com> - 2012-02-07 09:26 -0800
      Re: Self-taught C notbob <notbob@nothome.com> - 2012-02-07 17:45 +0000
        Re: Self-taught C notbob <notbob@nothome.com> - 2012-02-07 18:07 +0000
          Re: Self-taught C Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-09 00:56 -0800
  Re: Self-taught C Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-09 00:53 -0800

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