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Re: the hourglass problem

Cross-posted to 4 groups.

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On Sun, 1 Jan 2012, Patricia Shanahan wrote:
> On 1/1/2012 7:48 PM, William Elliot wrote:
>> On Sat, 31 Dec 2011, Dave Dodson wrote:
>>> On Dec 31, 9:21 pm, William Elliot <ma...@rdrop.com> wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 31 Dec 2011, RichD wrote:
>> 
>>>>> You're given a 7 minute, and a 4 minute, sand
>>>>> hourglass. Measure a 9 minute interval, in the first
>>>>> 9 minutes. (no 'setup' period)
>>>> 
>>>> Can't be done without a setup.
>>> 
>>> How about this: Start both timers. When the four-minute timer runs out
>>> (at 4 minutes), turn it over. When the seven-minute timer runs out (at
>>> 7 minutes), turn it over. When the four-minute timer runs out again
>>> (at 8 minutes), turn the seven-minute timer over. It will run out at 9
>>> minutes.
>> 
>> Beside having a set up period, I dispute its correctness.
>> Here's what I saw.
>> 
>> Set off 7 and 4, reset 4, reset 7, reset 4, reset 4.
>> Mark end of second 7 as start. Forth 4 has two minutes
>> to go. At end of forth 4, again set off 7.
>
> I don't think "reset" is an operation for a sand hourglass.
> The operations are:
>
> 1. Turning it over.
> 2. Observing the sand finishing flowing from one chamber to the other.
>
>> As that had set up period of 14 minutes, it was discarded.
>
> Here's the 9 minute sequence from above, reformatted and with a little
> more explanation:
>
> Time 0: start both timers.
> Time 4: four-minute timer expires, turn it over.
> Time 7: seven-minute time expires, turn it over.

This is a 7 minute set up that's taken as the starting point.
The four minute timers has one more minute to go.  After it's
done restart it two times for a total of 9 minutes from the
starting point.

> Time 8: four-minute time expires again. Turn over the seven-minute timer.
> Time 9: The one-minute's worth of sand that had passed through the
> seven-minute timer between Time 7 and Time 8 finishes flowing back, and
> the seven-minute timer expires again.
>
> This depends on the idea that if an M minute timer is started with all
> the sand in one chamber, run for N<=M minutes, and then turned over, it
> will expire in another N minutes.
>
> Patricia
>

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Thread

the hourglass problem RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2011-12-31 18:03 -0800
  Re: the hourglass problem William Elliot <marsh@rdrop.com> - 2011-12-31 19:21 -0800
    Re: the hourglass problem Dave Dodson <dave_and_darla@Juno.com> - 2011-12-31 19:41 -0800
      Re: the hourglass problem William Elliot <marsh@rdrop.com> - 2012-01-01 19:48 -0800
        Re: the hourglass problem Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-01-01 20:44 -0800
          Re: the hourglass problem William Elliot <marsh@rdrop.com> - 2012-01-01 23:08 -0800
            Re: the hourglass problem Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-01-02 07:55 -0800
              Re: the hourglass problem Dr Nick <3-nospam@temporary-address.org.uk> - 2012-01-02 16:17 +0000
                Re: the hourglass problem Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2012-01-03 03:37 -0600
    Re: the hourglass problem Remysun <remysun2000@yahoo.com> - 2012-01-02 17:10 -0800
      Re: the hourglass problem "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2012-01-03 01:12 +0000
  Re: the hourglass problem root <NoEMail@home.org> - 2012-01-01 05:51 +0000
    Re: the hourglass problem William Elliot <marsh@rdrop.com> - 2012-01-01 20:04 -0800
      Re: the hourglass problem Duncan Booth <duncan.booth@invalid.invalid> - 2012-01-02 11:42 +0000
    Re: the hourglass problem RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2012-01-03 15:05 -0800
      Re: the hourglass problem Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2012-01-03 15:19 -0800
        Re: the hourglass problem PT <ptanenbaum@consultant.com> - 2012-01-04 12:28 -0800
          Re: the hourglass problem Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2012-01-04 13:44 -0800
        Re: the hourglass problem Dave Dodson <dave_and_darla@Juno.com> - 2012-01-04 22:55 -0800
          Re: the hourglass problem Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2012-01-04 23:55 -0800
            Re: the hourglass problem "Harry Vaderchi" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2012-01-05 10:06 +0000
              Re: the hourglass problem "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2012-01-05 13:44 +0000
                Re: the hourglass problem Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-01-05 08:13 -0800
                Re: the hourglass problem Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2012-01-05 11:55 -0800
                Re: the hourglass problem JohnF <john@please.see.sig.for.email.com> - 2012-01-06 04:40 +0000
            Re: the hourglass problem Dave <dave_and_darla@Juno.com> - 2012-01-05 15:37 -0800
              Re: the hourglass problem Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2012-01-05 16:02 -0800
  Re: the hourglass problem Duncan Booth <duncan.booth@invalid.invalid> - 2012-01-02 11:50 +0000
  Re: the hourglass problem Frederick Williams <freddywilliams@btinternet.com> - 2012-01-02 17:18 +0000
    Re: the hourglass problem msb@vex.net (Mark Brader) - 2012-01-02 17:40 -0600
      Re: the hourglass problem RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2012-01-02 17:37 -0800
        Re: the hourglass problem msb@vex.net (Mark Brader) - 2012-01-02 23:45 -0600
        Re: the hourglass problem "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> - 2012-01-03 10:06 +0100
        Re: the hourglass problem Thomas Mlynarczyk <thomas@mlynarczyk-webdesign.de> - 2012-01-03 12:51 +0100
          Re: the hourglass problem Nicolas Neuss <lastname@scipolis.de> - 2012-01-03 18:07 +0100
            Re: the hourglass problem Thomas Mlynarczyk <thomas@mlynarczyk-webdesign.de> - 2012-01-03 21:58 +0100
        Re: the hourglass problem Frederick Williams <freddywilliams@btinternet.com> - 2012-01-03 13:22 +0000
      Re: the hourglass problem "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2012-01-03 12:59 +0000
    Re: the hourglass problem Thomas Mlynarczyk <thomas@mlynarczyk-webdesign.de> - 2012-01-03 12:47 +0100
  Re: the hourglass problem Frederick Williams <freddywilliams@btinternet.com> - 2012-01-05 14:09 +0000
    Re: the hourglass problem Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-01-05 08:17 -0800
      Re: the hourglass problem Frederick Williams <freddywilliams@btinternet.com> - 2012-01-05 16:27 +0000
      Re: the hourglass problem Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2012-01-05 11:57 -0800
      Re: the hourglass problem JohnF <john@please.see.sig.for.email.com> - 2012-01-06 06:42 +0000

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