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Groups > sci.physics > #897142
| From | Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | sci.physics, sci.electronics.design |
| Subject | Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" |
| Date | 2026-10-06 06:08 +0000 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <11a239q$1lr4h$1@dont-email.me> (permalink) |
| References | (3 earlier) <119tds3$3rti9$1@dont-email.me> <emwwS.28316$00H5.26847@fx18.ams4> <q2b5cltqaq1lnqm5785p6rvv1sc3idms71@4ax.com> <119vgm9$lfp1$1@dont-email.me> <uql7clptntikc9mi5ifkom4ovf1na2ktnk@4ax.com> |
Cross-posted to 2 groups.
>Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j>wrote:
>>Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>
>> >Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j>wrote:
>> >>Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid>
>> >wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 10/4/2026 7:38 PM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> >> >> Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j>wrote:
>> >> >>> Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote:
>> >> >>> On 10/2/2026 11:13 PM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> >> >>>> From:
>> >> >>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/09/260930020329.htm
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS"
>> >> >>>> Date:
>> >> >>>> October 2, 2026
>> >> >>>> Source:
>> >> >>>> University of Cambridge
>> >> >>>> Summary:
>> >> >>>> Mysterious 97-million-year-old magnetic fossils may be the oldest evidence of
>> >> >>>> an animal using Earth's magnetic field like a built-in GPS.
>> >> >>>> Their sophisticated magnetic structure could have helped an unknown ocean
>> >> >>>> creature navigate thousands of kilometers with surprising precision.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Please forgive me for not knowing enough about the construction of an-
>> >> >>> tennae, but I thought Tupandactylus was an obvious and probably older
>> >> >>> example.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> See picture at
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupandactylus
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> and the top of the head, filled in, was used to detect electromagnetic
>> >> >>> fields, presumably the one belonging to the planet Earth, and fly with
>> >> >>> precision over long distances.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> You are perfectly validated if you feel like correcting me on this in-
>> >> >>> terpretation of the evidence, and when you do, please feel free to sug-
>> >> >>> gest a book on antennae construction, both electromechanical, and bio-
>> >> >>> logical.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Earth has a magnetic field. Light is an electromagnetic
>> >> >> wave. There is no such thing as an "electromagnetic
>> >> >> field".
>> >>
>> >> Forgive me for this historical ignorance, but wasn't the term /electro-
>> >> magnetic/ coined to underline the fact that electronics and magnetism
>> >> was the same thing?
>> >>
>> >> How can you have a "field" of one, and not the other? Please explain
>> >> that like I was five hundred years old.
>> >
>> >Electricity and magnetism are different but closely
>> >related. An electric field can be created by positive
>> >and negative charges (eg proton/electron) separated by a
>> >distance. A magnetic field is created by moving charge.
>> >
>> >If you have oscillating electric and magnetic fields in
>> >sync, they form an electromagnetic *wave* which has
>> >additional properties, carries energy, and propagates in
>> >a certain direction, and is quantized into individual
>> >photons. Light, for example. Fields in a wave exist
>> >without the presence of charge or motion.
>> >
>> >If you have separated charge without motion, you have an
>> >electric field without magnetic field. If you have a
>> >charged particle moving alone, magnetic field without
>> >electric.
>> >
>> >A permanent magnet has a field caused by the unpaired
>> >spin of one of the electrons in an iron atom. The "spin"
>> >is moving charge that creates a magnetic field, and it
>> >isn't cancelled out by adjacent electrons as it is in
>> >other atoms.
>> >
>> >HTH.
>> >
>> >> >> You don't use an antenna to detect a magnetic field.
>> >> >> Something like a compass needle made of iron will do.
>> >> >> Birds use magnetite in their brains. There are more
>> >> >> complicated 3-axis magnetometers that work
>> >> >> electronically.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I'm not sure from whence the idea that the Tupa's crest
>> >> >> has anything to do with magnetic field detection. I will
>> >> >> only observe that sciencedaily.com seems to thrive on the
>> >> >> woo-woo side of human thought. Better clickbait, you
>> >> >> know.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> But here's my point: You can detect the geomagnetic
>> >> >> field in 3 dimensions, sure. And let's say Tupa and
>> >> >> modern birds both do. The only information that gives
>> >> >> you is, what direction is the magnetic north/south pole
>> >> >>from here. It doesn't tell you where you are. It's not
>> >> >> like a GPS at all, as has been pointed out.
>> >> >
>> >> > No, look at he magnetioc curve around earth
>> >> > https://duckduckgo.com/?q=magnetic+field+around+earth+picture
>> >> >
>> >> > The curvature is different when going from the equator towards the poles.
>> >> > That gives both altitude and position and of course the north south sngle
>> >> > for a moving 'bird'.
>> >
>> >How does the bird detect curvature at one point? It
>> >requires accurately measuring a field change at multiple
>> >points a known distance apart.
>>
>> By moving, it can move in 3 ways
>> up-down, left-right and back-forward
>>
>> That 3D freedom, when it can feel the inner magnet's effect on it's neurons,
>> can tell it where it is.
>
>No it can't. It can only detect the strength and
>direction of the magnetic field right here, right now, at
>one point.
>
>> A bit like looking around where you are.
>
>Not at all like looking around. You can't "see" a
>magnetic field in the distance.
>
>To get a differential measurement you have to travel a
>long way, remember the last measurement accurately, and
>know how far you've gone in what direction.
That ia the point I was making, the birds fly (move in 3D) 'look around'.
>Even if you can do all that faithfully, it still doesn't
>tell you where you are.
Birds often fly in flogs, many together
Some 'have been there before'
Sun position, time, (sextant) brain internal clock..
https://www.panteltje.nl/pub/davis_sextant_IMG_6556.JPG
If a few lenses can do it for us, nature very likely already dit it for ages.
We have eyes, birds and many if not most animals too.
Time: tides, flowers, other creatures, so much more shows time,
stars do with high precision.
Do NOT under-estimate nature,. we are just scratching the surface
Memory!
There are also sea ceatures that travel halfway around the world
some use sonar.
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97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-02 15:13 +0000
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-02 23:34 +0800
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-02 16:57 +0000
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-10-03 10:33 +0000
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-10-03 15:36 +0200
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-03 16:07 +0000
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> - 2026-10-03 18:23 +0200
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-04 07:24 +0000
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Old McDonald <eieio@patch.corn> - 2026-10-04 11:37 -0700
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-10-05 18:04 +1100
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-10-03 19:03 +0200
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-04 07:24 +0000
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-03 17:16 +0000
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-04 02:17 +0800
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-10-04 05:24 +1100
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-04 02:29 +0800
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-04 02:30 +0800
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-10-04 16:39 +1100
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2026-10-03 16:15 -0500
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-04 07:28 +0000
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j> - 2026-10-04 02:10 -0700
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-04 11:38 +0000
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-05 01:51 +0800
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-10-04 18:02 +0000
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-05 02:10 +0800
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-10-04 18:27 +0000
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-10-04 11:18 -0700
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-05 02:29 +0800
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-10-04 18:43 +0000
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-10-05 10:07 -0700
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-06 04:41 +0800
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j> - 2026-10-04 13:13 -0700
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-05 06:39 +0000
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j> - 2026-10-05 10:19 -0700
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-06 06:08 +0000
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j> - 2026-10-05 23:42 -0700
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-06 07:17 +0000
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j> - 2026-10-06 00:36 -0700
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-06 14:07 +0000
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2026-10-06 08:13 -0700
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j> - 2026-10-06 10:22 -0700
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-10-06 10:52 -0700
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2026-10-06 07:33 -0700
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j> - 2026-10-06 10:10 -0700
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-06 17:42 +0000
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2026-10-06 19:46 -0700
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-10-03 01:46 +1000
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Old McDonald <eieio@patch.corn> - 2026-10-02 10:37 -0700
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-10-03 16:03 +1000
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Old McDonald <eieio@patch.corn> - 2026-10-03 00:08 -0700
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-10-04 03:51 +1100
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-10-02 19:31 +0200
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-03 06:50 +0000
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-10-04 05:15 +1100
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-04 02:25 +0800
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j> - 2026-10-04 02:46 -0700
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-04 19:56 +0800
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j> - 2026-10-04 13:22 -0700
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j> - 2026-10-05 19:33 -0700
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-06 12:05 +0800
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-10-06 16:28 +1100
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j> - 2026-10-06 00:16 -0700
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-10-06 16:22 +1100
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j> - 2026-10-06 00:07 -0700
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-10-06 23:26 +1100
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j> - 2026-10-06 10:38 -0700
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-06 09:28 +0000
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-10-06 23:34 +1100
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Someone <864c855e3d64399dc06fa30ebb75526c2c2e73db7216b16a3d4cf03e8a52ec3b@example.com> - 2026-10-02 18:45 +0000
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-03 08:56 +0000
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-10-04 03:57 +1100
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-10-03 10:21 -0700
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-10-04 05:00 +1100
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-10-03 14:02 -0700
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-10-04 16:25 +1100
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-10-04 10:13 -0700
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-10-05 17:24 +1100
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-10-05 09:07 -0700
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-10-05 10:16 -0700
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-10-06 17:39 +1100
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-10-06 08:05 -0700
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> - 2026-10-05 20:05 +0200
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> - 2026-10-05 20:18 +0200
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-10-05 12:50 -0700
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-10-06 17:46 +1100
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-10-06 08:07 -0700
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-10-06 17:28 +1100
Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-10-06 08:17 -0700
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