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Groups > misc.phone.mobile.iphone > #201948

Re: What makes each of us want to replace a mobile device nowadays

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On 25/08/2026 02:31, Maria Sophia wrote:
> Your Name wrote:
>>> 6. Dump android and iOS for something where you have control and the
>>> device doesn't spy on you. Probably the only viable device at present
>>> is a Fairphone 6 with e/OS.
>>>
>>> Thinking about it, this should be at the top of the list. :-)
>>
>> "e/OS" is simply yet another version of Android. Since Google makes
>> Android, the supposed "de-Googled" e/OS is simply impossible idiotic
>> nonense conning the gullible tin foil hat brigade - by deffinition,
>> Google will always be part of any Android version.
> 
> While that's OT, it's simply not true, so the record needs correction.
>    *Android is an open-source operating system project (AOSP)*
> 
> While Google develops and maintains AOSP, Google does not own every
> Android-derived operating system, nor does an Android-derived OS
> necessarily contain Google's proprietary services.
> 
> In particular, /e/OS is deliberately built from AOSP and removes Google's
> proprietary components. The /e/OS project describes itself as a "fully
> deGoogled mobile operating system," replacing Google's services with its
> own/open alternatives.
> 
> The important distinction is:
> 
> AOSP = Google's open-source Android codebase.
> 
> Google Mobile Services (GMS) = Google's proprietary package of
> services/apps, including things such as Google Play Services and the Play
> Store.
> 
> /e/OS = Android/AOSP-derived, but designed to operate without GMS and
> Google's normal tracking/service infrastructure.
> 
> So saying "Google makes Android, therefore Google must always be part of
> any Android version" is roughly analogous to saying that because Linux was
> originally created by Linus Torvalds, every Linux distribution must contain
> something owned or controlled by Linus Torvalds.

I don't think that the analogy here is correct. Torvalds created Linux 
from the start. It was not a commercial enterprise. Google developed 
Android, after purchasing it from the creators, and continues to 
maintain it.

Perhaps a better analogy would be Google and Chromium/Chrome. To quote 
from the wiki, "Chromium is a free and open-source web browser project, 
primarily developed and maintained by Google". So perhaps it could be 
said that it is equivalent to AOSP. As of about two years ago (and again 
quoting from the wiki) "The Chromium browser codebase contains over 36 
million source lines of code, excluding comments and blank lines". 
That's rather a lot of code for anyone to check.

There are quite a few differences between the free and open-source 
Chromium, and Google's Chrome. Probably the most important is the 
tracking that Google built into Chrome.

Now, and maybe this is a step too far, there are a number of "Android" 
OSs which claim to have removed Google's "spyware" (you can use your own 
name!) from Android. If AOSP is clean, why is there a necessity to 
remove anything? Or is it a similar situation to Chromium? If Chromium 
is a FOSS browser, why has it been deemed necessary for someone to build 
"UnGoogled Chromium"? Well, we know that it's to remove all 
Google-specific web services. So are there any services in Android that 
we don't know about, and companies like Graphene and Lineage 
weren't/aren't able to find? How would we know?

This is completely OT, but it shows that if it /can/ be done, someone 
will try to do it!
<https://www.techspot.com/news/113581-aliexpress-silently-running-audio-browser-fingerprint-track-device.html>

Until recently, GrapheneOS was only available for Pixels. I always 
thought it odd that the *only* phone a deGoogled Android OS was 
available for was a phone made by Google! Never mind the software; what 
about the hardware? What about firmware updates? How would you know that 
some chip inside a Pixel isn't calling home once a month? From 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_(operating_system)#Privacy_and_GDPR_compliance>:

"Two years later, in 2021, researcher Douglas Leith, using a sort of 
data interception, showed that several data are sent from Android device 
to Google's servers, even when the phone is sleeping (IDLE) with no 
Google account registered into it."

By the way, that was with a Pixel! Oh, and it wasn't calling home once a 
month - it was every few minutes. (See 
<https://www.tomsguide.com/news/android-ios-data-collection>)
> The ancestry doesn't imply that.
> 
> There is, however, a legitimate criticism buried underneath that perhaps
> /e/OS isn't an entirely independent operating-system architecture.
> 
> For sure, it remains Android-derived and applications written for Android
> are generally what make it useful. But that's very different from:
> 
>       "Google will always be part of any Android version."
> 
> That statement is simply false.

I'm afraid you would never be able to prove that it wasn't false without 
spending a vast amount of time and effort examining /every/ bit of code 
in Android, both FOSS and proprietary.

-- 
Jeff

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Thread

What makes each of us want to replace a mobile device nowadays Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-08-24 17:14 +0200
  Re: What makes each of us want to replace a mobile device nowadays Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-24 17:59 +0100
    Re: What makes each of us want to replace a mobile device nowadays Ch1ffr3punk <ch1ffr3punk@gmail.com> - 2026-08-24 17:06 +0000
    Re: What makes each of us want to replace a mobile device nowadays Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-08-25 10:51 +1200
      Re: What makes each of us want to replace a mobile device nowadays Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-08-25 03:31 +0200
        Re: What makes each of us want to replace a mobile device nowadays Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-25 10:56 +0100
          Re: What makes each of us want to replace a mobile device nowadays Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-25 12:23 +0100
        Re: What makes each of us want to replace a mobile device nowadays "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-25 14:35 +0200
          Re: What makes each of us want to replace a mobile device nowadays Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-08-25 16:26 +0200
      Re: What makes each of us want to replace a mobile device nowadays Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-25 09:35 +0100
  Re: What makes each of us want to replace a mobile device nowadays badgolferman <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> - 2026-08-24 17:54 +0000
    Re: What makes each of us want to replace a mobile device nowadays "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-24 20:49 +0200
      Re: What makes each of us want to replace a mobile device nowadays Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-08-25 10:49 +1200
        Re: What makes each of us want to replace a mobile device nowadays "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-25 01:59 +0200
          Re: What makes each of us want to replace a mobile device nowadays Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-08-25 12:48 +1200
            Re: What makes each of us want to replace a mobile device nowadays "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-25 14:27 +0200
  Re: What makes each of us want to replace a mobile device nowadays Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> - 2026-08-24 22:00 +0100
    Re: What makes each of us want to replace a mobile device nowadays Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-08-25 10:46 +1200
  Re: What makes each of us want to replace a mobile device nowadays "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-25 02:00 +0200
  Re: What makes each of us want to replace a mobile device nowadays Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-08-25 03:47 +0200
  Re: What makes each of us want to replace a mobile device nowadays Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2026-08-25 13:47 +0000

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