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Groups > comp.lang.c > #400919

Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.

From cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross)
Newsgroups comp.lang.c
Subject Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.
Date 2026-08-07 18:32 +0000
Organization PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC
Message-ID <11558bh$t9g$1@reader1.panix.com> (permalink)
References <114nji9$li5u$1@news.xmission.com> <1153hcv$ba35$1@kst.eternal-september.org> <1154dvr$ah4$1@reader1.panix.com> <115550j$rpsl$1@kst.eternal-september.org>

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In article <115550j$rpsl$1@kst.eternal-september.org>,
Keith Thompson  <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> wrote:
>cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) writes:
>> In article <1153hcv$ba35$1@kst.eternal-september.org>,
>> Keith Thompson  <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) writes:
>>>[...]
>>>> Cast the value when using as the index:
>>>>
>>>> 	while (*s) ++counts[(unsignd char)*s++];
>>>>
>>>> Note that this is already required for the `is*` functions
>>>> defined in `ctype.h` (except, IIRC, `isascii`).
>>>
>>>isascii() is not defined by ISO C, or even by POSIX.
>>
>> Ah, right you are.  `isascii` was marked obsolescent in POSIX
>> Issue 7 (2018) and removed in Issue 8 (2024); it never made it
>> into standardized C, and was dropped during the initial work
>> leading up to ANSI C (the C89 rationale discusses it), though it
>> remains broadly implemented, presumably for compatibility with
>> older code.
>>
>>>isblank() is
>>>another common extension.  For implementations that support them,
>>>I don't think they're handled differently from the other is*()
>>>functions.  Most implementations handle values from SCHAR_MIN to
>>>UCHAR_MAX without error, but the behavior is undefined for any
>>>value other than EOF outside the range 0..UCHAR_MAX.
>>
>> Before removal from POSIX, `isascii` was specified as defined
>> for all integer values.
>> https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/functions/isascii.html
>>
>> I imagine that `isblank` would be implemented similarly to the
>> others, however.
>
>Interesting.  The 2018 POSIX specification says that "The isascii()
>function is defined on all integer values.", but for isblank() and
>isdigit() it says "The c argument is an int, the value of which the
>application shall ensure is a character representable as an unsigned
>char or equal to the value of the macro EOF. If the argument has any
>other value, the behavior is undefined.".  (I presume the same applies
>to the other ISO-C-defined functions, but I haven't checked them all.)

I think that's right.  I have a vague memory of lore that said
one should write, `if (isascii(c) && iswhatever(c))` (or the
equivalent for logically negative tests), though I can no longer
remember _where_ I saw that.  Of course, once localization is in
play, let alone portability to EBCDIC or whatever, it's less
relevant if not outright wrong.

>isascii() is (was?) a special case, probably because it's easier to
>implement without using a lookup table.  In glibc:
>
>#define __isascii(c)    (((c) & ~0x7f) == 0)

Yes, `isascii` is easy.  Not so much for other locales, let
alone for Unicode generally or UTF-8.  As ASCII specifically has
slid from relevance, and localization led to widespread
adoption of UTF-8 and other encodings, one can see how it was
merely an anachronism to be removed.

	- Dan C.

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Default signedness of 'plain' char. gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2026-08-02 14:17 +0000
  Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-03 02:45 +0800
    Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2026-08-03 01:47 +0000
      Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-03 23:14 +0800
        Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-08-03 17:04 +0100
          The Spanish Inquisition (was: Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-04 00:23 +0800
            Re: The Spanish Inquisition bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-08-03 18:03 +0100
              Re: The Spanish Inquisition Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-04 01:26 +0800
        Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2026-08-04 13:13 +0100
          Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-05 07:30 +0000
            Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-05 18:18 +0800
              Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-08-05 17:20 +0100
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-05 21:57 +0000
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-08-05 15:29 -0700
  Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-08-03 09:56 +0200
    Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-08-03 13:56 -0500
  Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-08-03 13:48 +0000
  Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-08-03 14:47 +0000
  Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2026-08-03 14:47 +0000
    Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2026-08-03 15:04 +0000
      Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-08-03 16:58 -0700
        Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2026-08-04 15:10 +0000
          Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-08-04 15:50 +0000
          Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-05 03:00 +0000
          Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-08-05 09:01 +0200
      Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-08-04 18:10 +0000
        Compilers targetting the C64 (was: Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-05 03:17 +0800
        Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-08-04 16:25 -0500
        Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-05 02:57 +0000
          Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2026-08-05 00:19 -0500
            Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-05 18:57 +0800
            Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-08-05 14:33 +0000
            Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-08-05 22:38 +0000
        Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-08-04 21:36 -0700
          Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-08-06 00:21 +0000
  Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-03 13:20 -0700
    Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-08-03 22:06 +0100
      Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-03 14:25 -0700
        Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-08-03 18:38 -0500
          Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-03 19:34 -0700
            Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-08-05 04:40 -0500
          Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-05 07:22 +0000
            Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-08-05 04:02 -0500
              Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-08-05 12:35 +0200
              Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-05 18:49 +0800
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-05 12:39 -0700
                Dear Chris (was: Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-06 20:15 +0800
                Re: Dear Chris bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-08-06 15:05 +0100
                Re: Dear Chris Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-06 23:16 +0800
                Re: Dear Chris David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-08-06 20:10 +0200
              Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-05 21:54 +0000
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-08-06 04:49 -0500
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-07 00:10 +0000
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-08-07 09:56 +0200
            Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2026-08-05 13:33 -0400
              Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-05 21:50 +0000
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-08-06 10:34 +0200
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-08-09 15:19 -0500
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-09 20:33 +0000
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-09 18:04 -0700
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-10 02:45 +0000
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-10 02:24 -0700
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-09 18:03 -0700
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-08-10 08:58 +0200
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-08-10 15:17 -0500
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-08-10 15:19 -0700
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-08-10 17:31 -0500
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-10 23:48 +0000
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2026-08-10 20:03 -0400
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-08-10 20:44 -0500
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2026-08-11 11:17 -0400
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-08-11 14:54 -0500
                Re: Quaternions (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-12 03:36 +0000
                Re: Quaternions (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-08-12 01:24 -0500
                Re: Quaternions (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-12 07:47 +0000
                Re: Quaternions (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-12 12:52 -0700
                Re: Quaternions (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-12 12:56 -0700
                Re: Quaternions (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-13 02:16 +0000
                Re: Quaternions (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-12 21:04 -0700
                Re: Quaternions (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-08-12 23:07 -0500
                Re: Quaternions (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-13 05:00 +0000
                Re: Quaternions (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-08-13 04:37 -0500
                Re: Quaternions (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-13 14:36 -0700
                Re: Quaternions (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-08-13 23:07 -0500
                Re: Quaternions (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-13 23:44 +0000
                Re: Quaternions (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-13 18:50 -0700
                Re: Quaternions (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-14 02:41 +0000
                Re: Quaternions (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-08-13 23:47 -0500
                Re: Quaternions (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-14 04:59 +0000
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-11 13:47 -0700
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-08-13 23:50 -0500
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-14 05:59 +0000
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-08-14 03:16 -0500
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-14 08:32 +0000
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-14 12:36 -0700
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-15 03:16 +0000
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-14 22:38 -0700
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-16 00:08 +0000
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-14 12:17 -0700
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-08-11 13:46 +0000
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-11 13:49 -0700
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-08-11 08:58 +0200
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-08-11 04:03 -0500
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-08-10 20:29 -0400
                Re: Vectors! Quaternions! (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-11 03:58 +0000
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-08-11 09:06 +0200
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-08-10 21:15 -0700
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-11 04:52 +0000
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-08-11 06:45 -0700
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-11 14:01 -0700
            Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-05 12:36 -0700
    Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-05 07:18 +0000
  Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2026-08-05 18:30 -0500
    Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-08-05 16:41 -0700
      Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-08-06 01:24 +0100
        Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-08-05 17:46 -0700
        Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-08-06 22:59 +0000
          Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-08-06 19:54 -0700
            Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-08-07 11:02 +0000
              Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-08-07 10:35 -0700
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-08-07 18:32 +0000
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-08-07 20:55 +0200
              Use of isascii() back in early days (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-08-07 20:51 +0200
                Re: Use of isascii() back in early days (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-08-07 13:03 -0700
                Re: Use of isascii() back in early days (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-08-07 13:32 -0700
                Re: Use of isascii() back in early days (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-08-07 21:44 +0000
                Re: Use of isascii() back in early days (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-08-07 23:47 +0200
                Re: Use of isascii() back in early days (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-08-07 15:26 -0700
      Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-08-06 22:57 +0000
        Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-08-06 18:23 -0700
          Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-08-07 11:47 +0000
    Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-08-06 14:40 +0000
      Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-08-06 15:33 -0700

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