Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.lang.c > #400750

Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.

From bart <bc@freeuk.com>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c
Subject Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.
Date 2026-08-03 17:04 +0100
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <114qe6e$1ebd0$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References <114nji9$li5u$1@news.xmission.com> <PeMbS.103022$aXr.22087@fx18.ams4> <114orut$nmkv$1@news.xmission.com> <Of2cS.34633$ZjVb.9403@fx12.ams4>

Show all headers | View raw

On 03/08/2026 16:14, Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote:
> On 03/08/2026 9:47 AM, Kenny McCormack wrote:
>> In article <PeMbS.103022$aXr.22087@fx18.ams4>,
>> Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson  <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> wrote:
>> ...
>>> And why did acc define it signed in the first place?  Maybe the CPU only
>>> had signed bytes, or they were faster than unsigned?  I wouldn't know as
>>> this is a made up example.
>>
>> Thank you for your response.   I hope to see more responses on this 
>> thread.
>>
>> But, just out of curiosity, why do you way that "this is a made up 
>> example" ?
>> To what are you referring and why do you think it was "made up" ?
>>
> 
> Because I did not bother to dig up my RISC OS computer, and see what
> that C compiler did about the signedness of chars.
> 
> It's a high chance that GCC, when ported to ARM for the first time,
> was compatible with whatever C compiler the original /Acorn/ team
> used, or made.

When I implemented C on Windows, I made 'char' unsigned (actually it was 
an alias for 'unsigned char'), as I thought a signed char was wrong.

However, I ran into problems with programs that assumed a signed char. 
So I made it an alias for 'signed char' instead.

Sometimes you just have to follow either the platform or existing 
practice, but it means crass choices like this persist.

A more interesting fact for me is that signed 'char' is incompatible 
with 'signed char', and unsigned 'char' is incompatible with 'unsigned 
char', which introduces problems of its own. (Eg. what type does 'puts' 
take if called via an FFI where the C 'char' type does not exist.)


> I believe I have a continuation of that C compiler on my RISC OS
> machine.  So assuming it still works, I can boot it up, and check
> what it does.
> 
> That said, I'm in no hurry, and I'm not sure it still works.  It's
> a /Pinebook/ that boots into RISC OS 5.

According to Godbolt, C for ARM64 uses an unsigned 'char'. I hope 
because they realised that a signed 'char' makes no sense by itself.

> So, that's the reason I believe default ARM char is unsigned.  I'm
> sure other regulars will be extremely happy to correct me, so let
> them.  They enjoy that sport.
> 
> I'm also adding comp.sys.acorn.misc,so the regulars there have a
> chance at correcting this historical tidbit.

Please don't; why are you so obsessed with cross-posting everything in 
half-a-dozen unrelated groups?

Why do you think they would be experts in the history of the C language 
or C compilers anyway? None of the threads there over the last two years 
give any evidence of that.

Also, just because some application, library, system or language happens 
to be implemented in language X, (or some computer that happens to run 
some programs written in X!) doesn't mean it it topical in a newsgroup 
devoted to that language.

Most newsgroups are pretty much dead anyway and are either wastelands or 
cesspits; I hope you're not trying to turn this into the latter.

If you want a more appreciative (and younger) audience, try Reddit.

Back to comp.lang.c | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

Default signedness of 'plain' char. gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2026-08-02 14:17 +0000
  Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-03 02:45 +0800
    Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2026-08-03 01:47 +0000
      Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-03 23:14 +0800
        Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-08-03 17:04 +0100
          The Spanish Inquisition (was: Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-04 00:23 +0800
            Re: The Spanish Inquisition bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-08-03 18:03 +0100
              Re: The Spanish Inquisition Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-04 01:26 +0800
        Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2026-08-04 13:13 +0100
          Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-05 07:30 +0000
            Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-05 18:18 +0800
              Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-08-05 17:20 +0100
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-05 21:57 +0000
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-08-05 15:29 -0700
  Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-08-03 09:56 +0200
    Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-08-03 13:56 -0500
  Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-08-03 13:48 +0000
  Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-08-03 14:47 +0000
  Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2026-08-03 14:47 +0000
    Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2026-08-03 15:04 +0000
      Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-08-03 16:58 -0700
        Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2026-08-04 15:10 +0000
          Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-08-04 15:50 +0000
          Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-05 03:00 +0000
          Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-08-05 09:01 +0200
      Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-08-04 18:10 +0000
        Compilers targetting the C64 (was: Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-05 03:17 +0800
        Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-08-04 16:25 -0500
        Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-05 02:57 +0000
          Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2026-08-05 00:19 -0500
            Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-05 18:57 +0800
            Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-08-05 14:33 +0000
            Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-08-05 22:38 +0000
        Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-08-04 21:36 -0700
          Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-08-06 00:21 +0000
  Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-03 13:20 -0700
    Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-08-03 22:06 +0100
      Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-03 14:25 -0700
        Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-08-03 18:38 -0500
          Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-03 19:34 -0700
            Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-08-05 04:40 -0500
          Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-05 07:22 +0000
            Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-08-05 04:02 -0500
              Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-08-05 12:35 +0200
              Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-05 18:49 +0800
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-05 12:39 -0700
                Dear Chris (was: Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-06 20:15 +0800
                Re: Dear Chris bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-08-06 15:05 +0100
                Re: Dear Chris Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-06 23:16 +0800
                Re: Dear Chris David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-08-06 20:10 +0200
              Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-05 21:54 +0000
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-08-06 04:49 -0500
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-07 00:10 +0000
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-08-07 09:56 +0200
            Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2026-08-05 13:33 -0400
              Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-05 21:50 +0000
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-08-06 10:34 +0200
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-08-09 15:19 -0500
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-09 20:33 +0000
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-09 18:04 -0700
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-10 02:45 +0000
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-10 02:24 -0700
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-09 18:03 -0700
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-08-10 08:58 +0200
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-08-10 15:17 -0500
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-08-10 15:19 -0700
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-08-10 17:31 -0500
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-10 23:48 +0000
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2026-08-10 20:03 -0400
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-08-10 20:44 -0500
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2026-08-11 11:17 -0400
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-08-11 14:54 -0500
                Re: Quaternions (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-12 03:36 +0000
                Re: Quaternions (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-08-12 01:24 -0500
                Re: Quaternions (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-12 07:47 +0000
                Re: Quaternions (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-12 12:52 -0700
                Re: Quaternions (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-12 12:56 -0700
                Re: Quaternions (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-13 02:16 +0000
                Re: Quaternions (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-12 21:04 -0700
                Re: Quaternions (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-08-12 23:07 -0500
                Re: Quaternions (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-13 05:00 +0000
                Re: Quaternions (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-08-13 04:37 -0500
                Re: Quaternions (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-13 14:36 -0700
                Re: Quaternions (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-08-13 23:07 -0500
                Re: Quaternions (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-13 23:44 +0000
                Re: Quaternions (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-13 18:50 -0700
                Re: Quaternions (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-14 02:41 +0000
                Re: Quaternions (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-08-13 23:47 -0500
                Re: Quaternions (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-14 04:59 +0000
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-11 13:47 -0700
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-08-13 23:50 -0500
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-14 05:59 +0000
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-08-14 03:16 -0500
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-14 08:32 +0000
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-14 12:36 -0700
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-15 03:16 +0000
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-14 22:38 -0700
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-16 00:08 +0000
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-14 12:17 -0700
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-08-11 13:46 +0000
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-11 13:49 -0700
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-08-11 08:58 +0200
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-08-11 04:03 -0500
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-08-10 20:29 -0400
                Re: Vectors! Quaternions! (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-11 03:58 +0000
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-08-11 09:06 +0200
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-08-10 21:15 -0700
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-11 04:52 +0000
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-08-11 06:45 -0700
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-11 14:01 -0700
            Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-05 12:36 -0700
    Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-05 07:18 +0000
  Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2026-08-05 18:30 -0500
    Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-08-05 16:41 -0700
      Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-08-06 01:24 +0100
        Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-08-05 17:46 -0700
        Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-08-06 22:59 +0000
          Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-08-06 19:54 -0700
            Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-08-07 11:02 +0000
              Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-08-07 10:35 -0700
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-08-07 18:32 +0000
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-08-07 20:55 +0200
              Use of isascii() back in early days (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-08-07 20:51 +0200
                Re: Use of isascii() back in early days (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-08-07 13:03 -0700
                Re: Use of isascii() back in early days (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-08-07 13:32 -0700
                Re: Use of isascii() back in early days (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-08-07 21:44 +0000
                Re: Use of isascii() back in early days (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-08-07 23:47 +0200
                Re: Use of isascii() back in early days (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-08-07 15:26 -0700
      Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-08-06 22:57 +0000
        Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-08-06 18:23 -0700
          Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-08-07 11:47 +0000
    Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-08-06 14:40 +0000
      Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-08-06 15:33 -0700

csiph-web