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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #135152
| From | Ruvim <ruvim.pinka@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.forth |
| Subject | text translator (was: non-parsing `TO` considered harmful) |
| Date | 2026-06-08 15:53 +0000 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <1106oij$3bas0$1@dont-email.me> (permalink) |
| References | (7 earlier) <2026Jun6.181724@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <110229l$23vm4$1@dont-email.me> <2026Jun7.152335@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <1104ame$2m7kj$1@dont-email.me> <2026Jun8.070429@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> |
On 2026-06-08 05:04, Anton Ertl wrote:
> Ruvim <ruvim.pinka@gmail.com> writes:
>> On 2026-06-07 13:23, Anton Ertl wrote:
[...]
>>> Any word that is not the text interpreter and that uses "STATE @" is
>>> deficient.
>>>
>>
>> I would classify my word `to(` is a text interpreter. Is it still deficient?
>
> Yes, because it is no text interpreter, and playing Humpty-Dumpty does
> not change that. E.g.,
>
> to( : foo 1 + . ; 2 foo )
>
> does not print 3.
Ah, you meant the Forth text interpreter. I see.
I understood/meant the term "text interpreter" in a more general sense.
I usually prefer to use the term "translator" for that (see bellow),
since interpretation often implies execution.
>> [...]
>>>>>
>>>>> So here's the implementation (untested):
>>>>>
>>>>> : to(
>>>>> 0 0 2>r begin
>>>>> parse-name dup 0= abort" unfinished TO("
>>>>> 2dup 2>r
>>>>> s" )" str= until
>>>>> 2r> 2drop \ get rid of ")"
>>>>> begin
>>>>> 2r> dup while
>>>>> [: "to " type ;] >string-execute evaluate
>>>>> \ freeing the strings is left as exercise to the reader
>>>>> repeat
>>>>> 2drop \ get rid of 0 0
>>>>> ; immediate
>>>>
[...]
>>> 2) No STATE @ deficiency.
>>
>> Your definition also contains `STATE @`, but indirectly, inside
>> `evaluate`.
>
> Yes, good point, as mentioned: Accidental capture of identifiers is
> not to only problem of EVALUATE-based macros, even in this case.
> The problem is that the text interpreter inside the EVALUATE
> invocations use the STATE at the run-time of TO(, not at the parsing
> time.
That is, the execution semantics of `to(` uses `STATE` and that is a
problem. In the same time, the execution semantics of `evaluate` also
uses `STATE`, and that is not a problem. Correct?
Why do you think it is a problem in the first place, but not in the
second place?
There are words that translate a fragment of the input source (a lexical
block) into some other form according to their own rules. I call them
text translators (or, translators of the input source).
For example, the standard word `code` can be implemented as a text
translator. <https://forth-standard.org/standard/tools/CODE>
Moreover, in this sense, all immediate parsing words are text translators.
Translation (as a process) can depend on STATE, as well as on other
pieces of the lexical context.
It is totally unclear why do you think that a text translator should not
use STATE.
--
Ruvim
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Coroutines in Forth Gerry Jackson <do-not-use@swldwa.uk> - 2026-04-05 23:25 +0100
Re: Coroutines in Forth Gerry Jackson <do-not-use@swldwa.uk> - 2026-04-05 23:30 +0100
Re: Coroutines in Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-04-05 17:16 -0700
Re: Coroutines in Forth Gerry Jackson <do-not-use@swldwa.uk> - 2026-04-06 19:58 +0100
Re: Coroutines in Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-04-22 11:13 -0700
Re: Coroutines in Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-22 22:05 +0200
Re: Coroutines in Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-07 13:23 +0200
Re: Coroutines in Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-06 13:51 +0200
Re: Coroutines in Forth Gerry Jackson <do-not-use@swldwa.uk> - 2026-04-06 22:20 +0100
Re: Coroutines in Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-07 13:35 +0200
Re: Coroutines in Forth Gerry Jackson <do-not-use@swldwa.uk> - 2026-04-07 20:55 +0100
Re: Coroutines in Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-08 12:34 +0200
Re: Coroutines in Forth Gerry Jackson <do-not-use@swldwa.uk> - 2026-04-08 12:32 +0100
non-parsing `TO` considered harmful Ruvim <ruvim.pinka@gmail.com> - 2026-06-04 22:26 +0000
Re: non-parsing `TO` considered harmful Ruvim <ruvim.pinka@gmail.com> - 2026-06-06 12:54 +0000
Re: non-parsing `TO` considered harmful anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-06-06 16:17 +0000
Re: non-parsing `TO` considered harmful Ruvim <ruvim.pinka@gmail.com> - 2026-06-06 21:09 +0000
Re: non-parsing `TO` considered harmful anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-06-07 13:23 +0000
Re: non-parsing `TO` considered harmful Ruvim <ruvim.pinka@gmail.com> - 2026-06-07 17:44 +0000
Re: non-parsing `TO` considered harmful anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-06-08 05:04 +0000
text translator (was: non-parsing `TO` considered harmful) Ruvim <ruvim.pinka@gmail.com> - 2026-06-08 15:53 +0000
Recognizers vs Parsing words (was: non-parsing `TO` considered harmful) Ruvim <ruvim.pinka@gmail.com> - 2026-06-09 10:25 +0000
Re: Recognizers vs Parsing words Ruvim <ruvim.pinka@gmail.com> - 2026-06-10 19:45 +0000
compilation of compilation (was: non-parsing `TO` considered harmful) Ruvim <ruvim.pinka@gmail.com> - 2026-06-08 07:28 +0000
Recognizer API v.2025-09-11 (was: non-parsing `TO` considered harmful) Ruvim <ruvim.pinka@gmail.com> - 2026-06-14 12:41 +0000
Re: Recognizer API v.2025-09-11 (was: non-parsing `TO` considered harmful) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-06-15 17:17 +0000
Re: Recognizer API v.2025-09-11 Ruvim <ruvim.pinka@gmail.com> - 2026-06-16 17:34 +0000
Re: Recognizer API v.2025-09-11 anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-06-17 05:05 +0000
Setters and getters in APIs (was: Recognizer API v.2025-09-11) Ruvim <ruvim.pinka@gmail.com> - 2026-06-19 16:17 +0000
Re: Setters and getters in APIs (was: Recognizer API v.2025-09-11) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-06-20 15:51 +0000
Re: non-parsing `TO` considered harmful Stephen Pelc <stephen@vfxforth.com> - 2026-06-07 11:59 +0000
Re: non-parsing `TO` considered harmful anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-06-07 15:25 +0000
Re: Coroutines in Forth Stephen Pelc <stephen@vfxforth.com> - 2026-04-09 10:12 +0000
non-parsing `TO` considered harmful Ruvim <ruvim.pinka@gmail.com> - 2026-06-04 22:30 +0000
VFX Forth problems Ruvim <ruvim.pinka@gmail.com> - 2026-06-05 16:24 +0000
Re: Coroutines in Forth marcel hendrix <mhx@iae.nl> - 2026-07-09 09:50 +0200
Re: Coroutines in Forth albert@SPENARNC.XS4ALL.NL - 2026-07-10 01:48 +0200
Re: Coroutines in Forth Stephen Pelc <stephen@vfxforth.com> - 2026-06-07 11:53 +0000
non-parsing `TO` considered harmful (was: Coroutines in Forth) Ruvim <ruvim.pinka@gmail.com> - 2026-06-07 13:31 +0000
Re: non-parsing `TO` considered harmful Travis Bemann <tabemann@gmail.com> - 2026-08-28 20:36 -0500
Re: Coroutines in Forth Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-10 19:01 +0200
Re: Coroutines in Forth dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-04-11 11:54 +1000
Re: Coroutines in Forth Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-05-01 13:07 +0200
Re: Coroutines in Forth peter <peter.noreply@tin.it> - 2026-04-11 09:49 +0200
Re: Coroutines in Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-11 22:03 +0200
Re: Coroutines in Forth dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-04-12 12:49 +1000
Re: Coroutines in Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-12 12:13 +0200
Re: Coroutines in Forth Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-12 17:39 +0200
Re: Coroutines in Forth dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-04-13 10:54 +1000
Re: Coroutines in Forth Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-13 19:24 +0200
Re: Coroutines in Forth Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-12 13:48 +0200
Re: Coroutines in Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-13 12:13 +0200
Re: Coroutines in Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-04-22 11:18 -0700
Re: Coroutines in Forth dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-04-23 11:13 +1000
Re: Coroutines in Forth Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-23 12:37 +0200
Re: Coroutines in Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-04-24 10:36 -0700
Re: Coroutines in Forth dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-04-25 12:12 +1000
Re: Coroutines in Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-04-24 23:31 -0700
Re: Coroutines in Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-25 10:45 +0200
Re: Coroutines in Forth dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-04-25 22:06 +1000
Re: Coroutines in Forth Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-25 15:11 +0200
Re: Coroutines in Forth dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-04-26 13:33 +1000
Re: Coroutines in Forth Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-26 16:28 +0200
Re: Coroutines in Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-04-25 21:46 -0700
FP stack depth limitations (was: Coroutines in Forth) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-04-26 05:55 +0000
Re: FP stack depth limitations Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-04-26 00:28 -0700
Re: FP stack depth limitations dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-04-26 19:55 +1000
Re: FP stack depth limitations (was: Coroutines in Forth) peter <peter.noreply@tin.it> - 2026-04-26 09:57 +0200
Re: FP stack depth limitations (was: Coroutines in Forth) albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-26 14:34 +0200
Re: Coroutines in Forth Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-25 15:01 +0200
Re: Coroutines in Forth Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-05-01 13:13 +0200
Forth, C, hardware, and programming virtues (was: Coroutines in Forth) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-04-25 05:26 +0000
Re: Forth, C, hardware, and programming virtues Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-04-24 23:55 -0700
Re: Forth, C, hardware, and programming virtues anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-04-25 08:21 +0000
Re: Forth, C, hardware, and programming virtues albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-25 11:27 +0200
Re: Forth, C, hardware, and programming virtues Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-25 15:43 +0200
Re: Forth, C, hardware, and programming virtues anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-04-25 17:21 +0000
Re: Forth, C, hardware, and programming virtues dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-04-26 15:21 +1000
Re: Forth, C, hardware, and programming virtues Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-26 15:08 +0200
Re: Forth, C, hardware, and programming virtues albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-26 00:34 +0200
Re: Forth, C, hardware, and programming virtues Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-26 15:10 +0200
locals (was: Coroutines in Forth) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-04-25 04:47 +0000
Re: locals Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-04-24 23:21 -0700
Re: locals anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-04-25 06:43 +0000
Re: locals albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-25 11:43 +0200
Re: locals anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-04-25 10:22 +0000
Re: locals peter <peter.noreply@tin.it> - 2026-04-25 16:07 +0200
Re: locals Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-25 17:38 +0200
Re: locals albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-26 01:13 +0200
Re: locals anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-04-26 14:03 +0000
Re: locals peter <peter.noreply@tin.it> - 2026-04-27 09:31 +0200
Re: locals anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-04-27 07:53 +0000
Re: locals peter <peter.noreply@tin.it> - 2026-04-27 11:52 +0200
Re: locals albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-26 00:51 +0200
Re: locals Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-04-25 22:40 -0700
Re: locals albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-26 14:55 +0200
Re: locals anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-04-26 09:50 +0000
Re: locals Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-26 16:22 +0200
Re: locals anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-04-26 17:04 +0000
Re: locals dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-04-27 11:51 +1000
Re: locals Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-28 08:21 +0200
Re: locals Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-28 08:22 +0200
Re: locals dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-04-27 11:12 +1000
Re: locals Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-28 14:34 +0200
Re: locals Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-28 14:34 +0200
Re: locals Gerry Jackson <do-not-use@swldwa.uk> - 2026-04-29 12:44 +0100
Re: locals Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-29 14:37 +0200
Re: locals Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-29 14:44 +0200
Re: locals Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-05-01 23:50 -0700
Re: locals anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-05-02 10:34 +0000
Re: locals Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-05-01 23:54 -0700
Re: locals dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-05-02 17:36 +1000
Re: locals Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-05-02 01:11 -0700
Re: locals anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-05-02 15:58 +0000
Re: Coroutines in Forth Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-04-07 09:28 -0500
Re: Coroutines in Forth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-04-07 16:12 +0000
Re: Coroutines in Forth Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-04-07 18:06 -0500
Re: Coroutines in Forth Gerry Jackson <do-not-use@swldwa.uk> - 2026-04-08 11:43 +0100
Re: Coroutines in Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-08 13:16 +0200
Re: Coroutines in Forth Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-04-08 11:47 -0500
Re: Coroutines in Forth Gerry Jackson <do-not-use@swldwa.uk> - 2026-04-08 21:48 +0100
Re: Coroutines in Forth Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-04-09 07:06 -0500
Re: Coroutines in Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-09 16:41 +0200
Re: Coroutines in Forth Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-04-09 13:34 -0500
Re: Coroutines in Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-10 01:23 +0200
Re: Coroutines in Forth Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-04-09 21:34 -0500
Re: Coroutines in Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-09 13:01 +0200
Re: Coroutines in Forth Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-04-09 07:01 -0500
Re: Coroutines in Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-09 16:10 +0200
Re: Coroutines in Forth Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-04-09 13:29 -0500
Re: Coroutines in Forth Gerry Jackson <do-not-use@swldwa.uk> - 2026-04-08 21:26 +0100
Re: Coroutines in Forth Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-08 14:22 +0200
Re: Coroutines in Forth Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-28 15:31 +0200
Re: Coroutines in Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-29 10:49 +0200
Re: Coroutines in Forth Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-29 15:22 +0200
Re: Coroutines in Forth Gerry Jackson <do-not-use@swldwa.uk> - 2026-04-08 11:33 +0100
Re: Coroutines in Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-08 13:07 +0200
Re: Coroutines in Forth Gerry Jackson <do-not-use@swldwa.uk> - 2026-04-08 22:05 +0100
Re: Coroutines in Forth albert <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2026-06-21 01:26 +0200
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