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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #135135

Re: non-parsing `TO` considered harmful

From anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl)
Newsgroups comp.lang.forth
Subject Re: non-parsing `TO` considered harmful
Date 2026-06-06 16:17 +0000
Organization Institut fuer Computersprachen, Technische Universitaet Wien
Message-ID <2026Jun6.181724@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> (permalink)
References (2 earlier) <nnd$7d2e6a4e$3bd4aa4f@294189cda32d8f1f> <10r3nfo$33464$1@dont-email.me> <nnd$1df5c626$6d97c61c@066801e65fcbf8a0> <10vsu39$neci$1@dont-email.me> <110159o$1rm6n$1@dont-email.me>

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Ruvim <ruvim.pinka@gmail.com> writes:
>> Here is an example of a program that relies on a parsing `to`, but is 
>> not compliant due to that very ambiguous condition regarding `postpone`.
>> Let's introduce a multiple assignment construct of the following form:
>> `1 2 3  to( a b c )`.
>> 
>> 
>>    : ?comp ( -- ) state @ if exit then -14 throw ;
>> 
>>    : equals ( sd2 sd1 -- flag )
>>      dup 3 pick <> if 2drop 2drop false exit then
>>      compare 0=
>>    ;
>>    : source-offset ( -- u )
>>      >in @
>>    ;
>>    : set-source-offset ( u -- )
>>      source nip over u< invert if >in ! exit then
>>      -18 throw \ "parsed string overflow"
>>    ;
>> 
>>    synonym take-lexeme-maybe parse-name
>> 
>>    : take-lexeme ( "ccc" -- sd )
>>      take-lexeme-maybe dup if exit then -16 throw
>>    ;
>> 
>>    : to( ( "ccc<rparen>" -- ) \ " a b c )"
>>      ?comp  source-offset ( u.offset )
>>      take-lexeme s" )" equals if drop exit then
>>      ( u.offset ) recurse ( u.offset )
>>      source-offset  swap set-source-offset
>>        postpone to
>>      set-source-offset
>>    ; immediate
>> 
>>    \ usage example
>> 
>>    0 value a
>>    0 value b
>> 
>>    : init-foo ( -- ) 2 3  to( a b ) ;
>> 
>>    init-foo  a . b .  \ it should print "2 3"
>
>
>
>Do you know a Forth system in which `to` parses the parse area and in 
>which the definition for `to(` given above *does not* work?

Depending on what you mean by "work".  Anything that contains ?COMP is
deficient by design.

>How do you implement a construct `to( ... )` that works both in 
>interpretation state and in compilation state?

I don't.  As for how someone else could do it, see below.

>Also, we could replace `postpone to` with
>   `state @ if  postpone to  else  ['] to execute  then`

Also deficient by design.

>Interestingly, the Recognizer API does not help in implementing this 
>construct.

One way would be to add an immediate word TO( that changes rec-forth
(the default recognizer sequence; damn renamings) to a special
recognizer.  This special recognizer just pushes every string it
should recognizer to a TO(-stack, except when it recognizes ")".

When it recognizes ")", it restores the original REC-FORTH, takes the
top string "<word>" off the TO(-stack, constructs a string "TO
<word>", and EVALUATEs it (you may try to take precautions such that
the right TO is found, but the standard gives us little to play with
here).  Repeat until the TI(-stack is empty.  Not even non-standard
POSTPONE TO is needed, and it also works with non-parsing TO
implementations.  It does not work if the user has defined TO to mean
something else (the curse of EVALUATE).

However, instead of going for recognizers, you might play the same
trick by letting TO( parse the strings up to ")" and push them on the
TO(-stack.  And that's simpler to implement, so yes, the recognizer
API does not help here.

But then recognizers are not designed for more than a word (the string
recognizer is already a stretch).  So what Gforth has is a REC-TO that
recognizes "-><word>".

So here's the implementation (untested):

: to(
  0 0 2>r begin
     parse-name dup 0= abort" unfinished TO("
     2dup 2>r
     s" )" str= until
  2r> 2drop \ get rid of ")"
  begin
     2r> dup while
         [: "to " type ;] >string-execute evaluate
         \ freeing the strings is left as exercise to the reader
  repeat
  2drop \ get rid of 0 0
; immediate

Gforth has an API for defing words with user-defined TO
<https://net2o.de/gforth/Words-with-user_002ddefined-TO-etc_002e.html>,
but there is currently no proper API for defining words that perform
the function of TO or one of its siblings (+TO etc), in particular
there is no API that would support a user-defined REC-TO or TO(.  This
shows in using internal words like TO-SLOTS in REC-TO.

Given the large differences between TO implementations in systems, I
expect that we will have a hard time (as in: it won't happen)
standardizing TO-related APIs.

- anton
-- 
M. Anton Ertl  http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
     New standard: https://forth-standard.org/
EuroForth 2025 proceedings: http://www.euroforth.org/ef25/papers/

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Coroutines in Forth Gerry Jackson <do-not-use@swldwa.uk> - 2026-04-05 23:25 +0100
  Re: Coroutines in Forth Gerry Jackson <do-not-use@swldwa.uk> - 2026-04-05 23:30 +0100
    Re: Coroutines in Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-04-05 17:16 -0700
      Re: Coroutines in Forth Gerry Jackson <do-not-use@swldwa.uk> - 2026-04-06 19:58 +0100
        Re: Coroutines in Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-04-22 11:13 -0700
          Re: Coroutines in Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-22 22:05 +0200
      Re: Coroutines in Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-07 13:23 +0200
  Re: Coroutines in Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-06 13:51 +0200
    Re: Coroutines in Forth Gerry Jackson <do-not-use@swldwa.uk> - 2026-04-06 22:20 +0100
      Re: Coroutines in Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-07 13:35 +0200
        Re: Coroutines in Forth Gerry Jackson <do-not-use@swldwa.uk> - 2026-04-07 20:55 +0100
          Re: Coroutines in Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-08 12:34 +0200
            Re: Coroutines in Forth Gerry Jackson <do-not-use@swldwa.uk> - 2026-04-08 12:32 +0100
            non-parsing `TO` considered harmful Ruvim <ruvim.pinka@gmail.com> - 2026-06-04 22:26 +0000
              Re: non-parsing `TO` considered harmful Ruvim <ruvim.pinka@gmail.com> - 2026-06-06 12:54 +0000
                Re: non-parsing `TO` considered harmful anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-06-06 16:17 +0000
                Re: non-parsing `TO` considered harmful Ruvim <ruvim.pinka@gmail.com> - 2026-06-06 21:09 +0000
                Re: non-parsing `TO` considered harmful anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-06-07 13:23 +0000
                Re: non-parsing `TO` considered harmful Ruvim <ruvim.pinka@gmail.com> - 2026-06-07 17:44 +0000
                Re: non-parsing `TO` considered harmful anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-06-08 05:04 +0000
                text translator (was: non-parsing `TO` considered harmful) Ruvim <ruvim.pinka@gmail.com> - 2026-06-08 15:53 +0000
                Recognizers vs Parsing words (was: non-parsing `TO` considered harmful) Ruvim <ruvim.pinka@gmail.com> - 2026-06-09 10:25 +0000
                Re: Recognizers vs Parsing words Ruvim <ruvim.pinka@gmail.com> - 2026-06-10 19:45 +0000
                compilation of compilation (was: non-parsing `TO` considered harmful) Ruvim <ruvim.pinka@gmail.com> - 2026-06-08 07:28 +0000
                Recognizer API v.2025-09-11 (was: non-parsing `TO` considered harmful) Ruvim <ruvim.pinka@gmail.com> - 2026-06-14 12:41 +0000
                Re: Recognizer API v.2025-09-11 (was: non-parsing `TO` considered harmful) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-06-15 17:17 +0000
                Re: Recognizer API v.2025-09-11 Ruvim <ruvim.pinka@gmail.com> - 2026-06-16 17:34 +0000
                Re: Recognizer API v.2025-09-11 anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-06-17 05:05 +0000
                Setters and getters in APIs (was: Recognizer API v.2025-09-11) Ruvim <ruvim.pinka@gmail.com> - 2026-06-19 16:17 +0000
                Re: Setters and getters in APIs (was: Recognizer API v.2025-09-11) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-06-20 15:51 +0000
                Re: non-parsing `TO` considered harmful Stephen Pelc <stephen@vfxforth.com> - 2026-06-07 11:59 +0000
                Re: non-parsing `TO` considered harmful anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-06-07 15:25 +0000
          Re: Coroutines in Forth Stephen Pelc <stephen@vfxforth.com> - 2026-04-09 10:12 +0000
            non-parsing `TO` considered harmful Ruvim <ruvim.pinka@gmail.com> - 2026-06-04 22:30 +0000
              VFX Forth problems Ruvim <ruvim.pinka@gmail.com> - 2026-06-05 16:24 +0000
            Re: Coroutines in Forth marcel hendrix <mhx@iae.nl> - 2026-07-09 09:50 +0200
              Re: Coroutines in Forth albert@SPENARNC.XS4ALL.NL - 2026-07-10 01:48 +0200
          Re: Coroutines in Forth Stephen Pelc <stephen@vfxforth.com> - 2026-06-07 11:53 +0000
            non-parsing `TO` considered harmful (was: Coroutines in Forth) Ruvim <ruvim.pinka@gmail.com> - 2026-06-07 13:31 +0000
              Re: non-parsing `TO` considered harmful Travis Bemann <tabemann@gmail.com> - 2026-08-28 20:36 -0500
        Re: Coroutines in Forth Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-10 19:01 +0200
          Re: Coroutines in Forth dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-04-11 11:54 +1000
            Re: Coroutines in Forth Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-05-01 13:07 +0200
          Re: Coroutines in Forth peter <peter.noreply@tin.it> - 2026-04-11 09:49 +0200
          Re: Coroutines in Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-11 22:03 +0200
            Re: Coroutines in Forth dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-04-12 12:49 +1000
              Re: Coroutines in Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-12 12:13 +0200
                Re: Coroutines in Forth Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-12 17:39 +0200
                Re: Coroutines in Forth dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-04-13 10:54 +1000
                Re: Coroutines in Forth Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-13 19:24 +0200
              Re: Coroutines in Forth Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-12 13:48 +0200
              Re: Coroutines in Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-13 12:13 +0200
              Re: Coroutines in Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-04-22 11:18 -0700
                Re: Coroutines in Forth dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-04-23 11:13 +1000
                Re: Coroutines in Forth Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-23 12:37 +0200
                Re: Coroutines in Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-04-24 10:36 -0700
                Re: Coroutines in Forth dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-04-25 12:12 +1000
                Re: Coroutines in Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-04-24 23:31 -0700
                Re: Coroutines in Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-25 10:45 +0200
                Re: Coroutines in Forth dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-04-25 22:06 +1000
                Re: Coroutines in Forth Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-25 15:11 +0200
                Re: Coroutines in Forth dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-04-26 13:33 +1000
                Re: Coroutines in Forth Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-26 16:28 +0200
                Re: Coroutines in Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-04-25 21:46 -0700
                FP stack depth limitations (was: Coroutines in Forth) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-04-26 05:55 +0000
                Re: FP stack depth limitations Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-04-26 00:28 -0700
                Re: FP stack depth limitations dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-04-26 19:55 +1000
                Re: FP stack depth limitations (was: Coroutines in Forth) peter <peter.noreply@tin.it> - 2026-04-26 09:57 +0200
                Re: FP stack depth limitations (was: Coroutines in Forth) albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-26 14:34 +0200
                Re: Coroutines in Forth Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-25 15:01 +0200
                Re: Coroutines in Forth Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-05-01 13:13 +0200
                Forth, C, hardware, and programming virtues (was: Coroutines in Forth) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-04-25 05:26 +0000
                Re: Forth, C, hardware, and programming virtues Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-04-24 23:55 -0700
                Re: Forth, C, hardware, and programming virtues anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-04-25 08:21 +0000
                Re: Forth, C, hardware, and programming virtues albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-25 11:27 +0200
                Re: Forth, C, hardware, and programming virtues Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-25 15:43 +0200
                Re: Forth, C, hardware, and programming virtues anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-04-25 17:21 +0000
                Re: Forth, C, hardware, and programming virtues dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-04-26 15:21 +1000
                Re: Forth, C, hardware, and programming virtues Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-26 15:08 +0200
                Re: Forth, C, hardware, and programming virtues albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-26 00:34 +0200
                Re: Forth, C, hardware, and programming virtues Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-26 15:10 +0200
                locals (was: Coroutines in Forth) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-04-25 04:47 +0000
                Re: locals Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-04-24 23:21 -0700
                Re: locals anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-04-25 06:43 +0000
                Re: locals albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-25 11:43 +0200
                Re: locals anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-04-25 10:22 +0000
                Re: locals peter <peter.noreply@tin.it> - 2026-04-25 16:07 +0200
                Re: locals Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-25 17:38 +0200
                Re: locals albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-26 01:13 +0200
                Re: locals anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-04-26 14:03 +0000
                Re: locals peter <peter.noreply@tin.it> - 2026-04-27 09:31 +0200
                Re: locals anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-04-27 07:53 +0000
                Re: locals peter <peter.noreply@tin.it> - 2026-04-27 11:52 +0200
                Re: locals albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-26 00:51 +0200
                Re: locals Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-04-25 22:40 -0700
                Re: locals albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-26 14:55 +0200
                Re: locals anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-04-26 09:50 +0000
                Re: locals Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-26 16:22 +0200
                Re: locals anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-04-26 17:04 +0000
                Re: locals dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-04-27 11:51 +1000
                Re: locals Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-28 08:21 +0200
                Re: locals Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-28 08:22 +0200
                Re: locals dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-04-27 11:12 +1000
                Re: locals Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-28 14:34 +0200
                Re: locals Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-28 14:34 +0200
                Re: locals Gerry Jackson <do-not-use@swldwa.uk> - 2026-04-29 12:44 +0100
                Re: locals Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-29 14:37 +0200
                Re: locals Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-29 14:44 +0200
                Re: locals Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-05-01 23:50 -0700
                Re: locals anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-05-02 10:34 +0000
                Re: locals Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-05-01 23:54 -0700
                Re: locals dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-05-02 17:36 +1000
                Re: locals Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-05-02 01:11 -0700
                Re: locals anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-05-02 15:58 +0000
      Re: Coroutines in Forth Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-04-07 09:28 -0500
        Re: Coroutines in Forth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-04-07 16:12 +0000
          Re: Coroutines in Forth Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-04-07 18:06 -0500
          Re: Coroutines in Forth Gerry Jackson <do-not-use@swldwa.uk> - 2026-04-08 11:43 +0100
            Re: Coroutines in Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-08 13:16 +0200
              Re: Coroutines in Forth Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-04-08 11:47 -0500
                Re: Coroutines in Forth Gerry Jackson <do-not-use@swldwa.uk> - 2026-04-08 21:48 +0100
                Re: Coroutines in Forth Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-04-09 07:06 -0500
                Re: Coroutines in Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-09 16:41 +0200
                Re: Coroutines in Forth Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-04-09 13:34 -0500
                Re: Coroutines in Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-10 01:23 +0200
                Re: Coroutines in Forth Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-04-09 21:34 -0500
                Re: Coroutines in Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-09 13:01 +0200
                Re: Coroutines in Forth Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-04-09 07:01 -0500
                Re: Coroutines in Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-09 16:10 +0200
                Re: Coroutines in Forth Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-04-09 13:29 -0500
              Re: Coroutines in Forth Gerry Jackson <do-not-use@swldwa.uk> - 2026-04-08 21:26 +0100
          Re: Coroutines in Forth Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-08 14:22 +0200
          Re: Coroutines in Forth Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-28 15:31 +0200
            Re: Coroutines in Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-29 10:49 +0200
              Re: Coroutines in Forth Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-29 15:22 +0200
        Re: Coroutines in Forth Gerry Jackson <do-not-use@swldwa.uk> - 2026-04-08 11:33 +0100
          Re: Coroutines in Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-08 13:07 +0200
            Re: Coroutines in Forth Gerry Jackson <do-not-use@swldwa.uk> - 2026-04-08 22:05 +0100
  Re: Coroutines in Forth albert <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2026-06-21 01:26 +0200

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