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Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same?

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On 11/15/2025 5:39 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
> On 2025-11-15, olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 11/15/2025 5:15 PM, Tristan Wibberley wrote:
>>> On 15/11/2025 23:14, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 11/15/2025 4:35 PM, Tristan Wibberley wrote:
>>>>> On 15/11/2025 20:36, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The underlying mathematics doesn't support that; the expression H(D)
>>>>>> denotes exactly the same computation and result wherever it appears.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is this in the problem where C semantics are specified? There the
>>>>> underlying mathematics supports it because of the semantics of the C
>>>>> programming language.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> D simulated by H specifies that H simulates
>>>> D and then must simulate an instance of itself
>>>> simulating an instance of D.
>>>>
>>>> D simulated by H1 does not specify that H1
>>>> simulate itself at all.
>>>>
>>>> Any C programmer can instantly see this.
>>>
>>> Thanks it doesn't help.
>>>
>>
>> C is essentially its own formal mathematical
>> language with its own semantics thus what I
>> just said applies to C as a formal language.
> 
> The problem, you idiot, is that same-named entities between
> mathematics and C like "variable" and "function" do not correspond.
> 

Computable functions of C maps to x86
that maps to RASP machines that maps
to Turing machines

*From the bottom of page 319 has been adapted to this*
https://www.liarparadox.org/Peter_Linz_HP_317-320.pdf

Ĥ.q0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.∞, // accept state
Ĥ.q0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.qn // reject state

D simulated by H maps to ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ simulated by Ĥ.embedded_H

That you only have rhetoric and insults as your basis
fools all of the gullible people in this group.




> Yes, I know you like to assume that the same words refer to "isomorphic"
> entities (another word you don't understand) but that simpy isn't so.
> 
> Even if we can build a formal model of C, that model cannot
> turn a C function into a math function.
> 
> And, no, C is not formally specified. It is informally specified, in a
> plain language description which leaves many details "unspecified",
> "implementation-defined" and "undefined".  Every revision of the ISO C
> standard has been the target of defect reports.
> 
> There are projects out there to do formal verification on C programs;
> those have to construct their own formal model; you don't get one
> from ISO C.
> 
> If you want certain functions in a C file to model math
> functions (like functions from the theory of computation)
> you have to tread very carefully.
> 
> You cannot pull bullshit like have to identical functions be
> treated as different because one of them is called by
> a certain function and the other isn't.
> 
> If you have two idnetical functions, you have to ensure that
> everything in your system behaves as if they were just two
> different /names/ for a single function.
> 
> Your functions cannot have any side effects, like reacting to
> different values of a shared, static variable; they have to be pure.
> 


-- 
Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer

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Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-11-16 03:57 +0800
  Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-15 20:36 +0000
    Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-11-16 05:11 +0800
      Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 15:40 -0600
        Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-11-16 06:10 +0800
          Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 16:20 -0600
            Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 14:35 -0800
              Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 14:38 -0800
    Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-15 22:35 +0000
      Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 17:14 -0600
        Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-15 23:15 +0000
          Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 17:30 -0600
            Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-15 23:39 +0000
              Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 17:58 -0600
  Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-16 11:05 +0200

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