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Groups > comp.theory > #134934
| From | olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.theory, comp.lang.c++, comp.lang.c, comp.ai.philosophy |
| Subject | Re: Addressing duffer-speak |
| Followup-To | comp.theory |
| Date | 2025-11-03 12:30 -0600 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <10easc9$32v88$1@dont-email.me> (permalink) |
| References | (3 earlier) <c1ed76717f0358e90f23caedf1a245f1ca6fae05.camel@gmail.com> <10eao4h$31jeu$1@dont-email.me> <0738e7e2b888d7c712b7d2aa22c21ec3427091ec.camel@gmail.com> <10eaqks$32ebm$1@dont-email.me> <abf63111f810390fdd074789ba8570ece003bd0c.camel@gmail.com> |
Cross-posted to 4 groups.
Followups directed to: comp.theory
On 11/3/2025 12:13 PM, wij wrote:
> On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 12:00 -0600, olcott wrote:
>> On 11/3/2025 11:33 AM, wij wrote:
>>> On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 11:18 -0600, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 11/3/2025 8:19 AM, wij wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 07:47 -0600, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/1/2025 9:12 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
>>>>>>> On 02/11/2025 01:46, Mr Flibble wrote:
>>>>>>>> Once Olcott has plonked everyone I guess the shitshow here will finally
>>>>>>>> stop?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> /Flibble
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> PO will still post new threads, but the average thread size will shrink
>>>>>>> to about 6 posts.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> PO will only see his own posts, so there will be no incentive for him to
>>>>>>> "evolve" his duffer-speak in response to objections.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> int D()
>>>>>> {
>>>>>> int Halt_Status = H(D);
>>>>>> if (Halt_Status)
>>>>>> HERE: goto HERE;
>>>>>> return Halt_Status;
>>>>>> }
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The function H is a simulating termination analyzer:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (a) Detects a non-terminating behavior pattern:
>>>>>> abort simulation and return 0.
>>>>>> (b) Simulated input reaches its simulated
>>>>>> "return" statement: return 1.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> when given a function P, it literally simulates
>>>>>> each step of executing P() to see whether that
>>>>>> simulated execution ever reaches a return statement.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now let H simulate D. Based only on the outcome of
>>>>>> that literal simulation (not on reasoning about what
>>>>>> should happen), what result should H(D) produce?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> H(D) can never return.
>>>>> This condition is described as 'undecidable' as HP proof has shown.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You simply ignored (a).
>>>
>>> You ignored the fact that HP asks for a real halt decider, not 'words'.
>>>
>>
>> You ignored the fact that I am only talking about
>> the actual steps of D actually simulated by H and
>> not one damn thing else in the universe.
>
> Your D says:
Nothing matters besides the actual execution trace
of D simulated by H. LLM systems were also very
stupid about this until I added these two paragraphs.
Maybe paying 100% complete attention to every detail of
these two paragraph is beyond your attention span:
The function H is a simulating termination analyzer:
(a) Detects a non-terminating behavior pattern:
abort simulation and return 0.
(b) Simulated input reaches its simulated
"return" statement: return 1.
When given a function P, it literally simulates each step of executing
P() to see whether that simulated execution ever reaches a return
statement. Now let H simulate D. Based only on the outcome of that
literal simulation (not on reasoning about what should happen), what
result should H(D) produce?
--
Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
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Plonkers Mr Flibble <flibble@red-dwarf.jmc.corp> - 2025-11-02 01:46 +0000
Re: Plonkers Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-11-02 02:12 +0000
"duffer speak" ??? Mike can't be dishonest so what is left ? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 21:41 -0500
Re: "duffer speak" ??? Mike can't be dishonest so what is left ? Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-11-02 04:08 +0000
Re: "duffer speak" ??? Mike can't be dishonest so what is left ? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 23:14 -0500
Re: "duffer speak" ??? Mike can't be dishonest so what is left ? dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-11-02 00:32 -0400
Re: "duffer speak" ??? Mike can't be dishonest so what is left ? Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-02 07:34 +0000
Re: "duffer speak" ??? Mike can't be dishonest so what is left ? Mr Flibble <flibble@red-dwarf.jmc.corp> - 2025-11-02 04:39 +0000
Re: "duffer speak" ??? Mike can't be dishonest so what is left ? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2025-11-02 14:10 -0500
Re: "duffer speak" ??? Mike can't be dishonest so what is left ? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-02 14:26 -0600
Re: "duffer speak" ??? Mike can't be dishonest so what is left ? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2025-11-02 22:58 -0500
Re: "duffer speak" ??? Mike can't be dishonest so what is left ? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-02 22:27 -0600
Re: "duffer speak" ??? Mike can't be dishonest so what is left ? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2025-11-02 23:35 -0500
Re: "duffer speak" ??? Mike can't be dishonest so what is left ? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-02 22:57 -0600
Re: "duffer speak" ??? Mike can't be dishonest so what is left ? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-02 18:25 -0600
Re: "duffer speak" ??? Mike can't be dishonest so what is left ? dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-11-02 19:32 -0500
Re: "duffer speak" ??? Mike can't be dishonest so what is left ? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-02 18:35 -0600
Re: "duffer speak" ??? Mike can't be dishonest so what is left ? dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-11-02 20:04 -0500
Re: "duffer speak" ??? Mike can't be dishonest so what is left ? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-02 19:17 -0600
Re: "duffer speak" ??? Mike can't be dishonest so what is left ? dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-11-02 20:26 -0500
Re: "duffer speak" ??? Mike can't be dishonest so what is left ? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-02 20:25 -0600
Re: "duffer speak" ??? Mike can't be dishonest so what is left ? dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-11-02 21:33 -0500
Re: "duffer speak" ??? Mike can't be dishonest so what is left ? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-02 20:53 -0600
Re: "duffer speak" ??? Mike can't be dishonest so what is left ? dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-11-02 22:11 -0500
Re: "duffer speak" ??? Mike can't be dishonest so what is left ? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-02 21:16 -0600
Re: "duffer speak" ??? Mike can't be dishonest so what is left ? dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-11-02 22:27 -0500
Re: "duffer speak" ??? Mike can't be dishonest so what is left ? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-11-03 03:49 +0000
Re: "duffer speak" ??? Mike can't be dishonest so what is left ? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-02 22:24 -0600
Re: "duffer speak" ??? Mike can't be dishonest so what is left ? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-11-03 01:00 +0000
Re: "duffer speak" ??? Mike can't be dishonest so what is left ? dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-11-02 20:06 -0500
Re: "duffer speak" ??? Mike can't be dishonest so what is left ? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-11-03 02:35 +0000
Re: "duffer speak" ??? Mike can't be dishonest so what is left ? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-02 20:54 -0600
Re: "duffer speak" ??? Mike can't be dishonest so what is left ? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-02 21:13 -0600
Re: "duffer speak" ??? Mike can't be dishonest so what is left ? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-02 19:07 -0600
Re: "duffer speak" ??? Mike can't be dishonest so what is left ? dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-11-02 20:08 -0500
Re: "duffer speak" ??? Mike can't be dishonest so what is left ? Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-02 07:15 +0000
Re: "duffer speak" ??? Mike can't be dishonest so what is left ? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-02 07:16 -0600
Re: "duffer speak" ??? Mike can't be dishonest so what is left ? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-11-02 21:46 +0800
Re: "duffer speak" ??? Mike can't be dishonest so what is left ? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-02 07:54 -0600
Re: "duffer speak" ??? Mike can't be dishonest so what is left ? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-11-02 22:12 +0800
Re: "duffer speak" ??? Mike can't be dishonest so what is left ? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-11-02 23:23 +0800
Re: "duffer speak" ??? Mike can't be dishonest so what is left ? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-02 14:29 -0600
Re: "duffer speak" ??? Mike can't be dishonest so what is left ? dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-11-02 08:48 -0500
Re: "duffer speak" ??? Mike can't be dishonest so what is left ? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-02 07:57 -0600
Re: "duffer speak" ??? Mike can't be dishonest so what is left ? dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-11-02 09:00 -0500
Re: "duffer speak" ??? Mike can't be dishonest so what is left ? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-02 08:09 -0600
Re: "duffer speak" ??? Mike can't be dishonest so what is left ? dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-11-02 09:13 -0500
Re: "duffer speak" ??? Mike can't be dishonest so what is left ? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-02 09:12 -0600
Re: "duffer speak" ??? Mike can't be dishonest so what is left ? dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-11-02 12:18 -0500
Re: "duffer speak" ??? Mike can't be dishonest so what is left ? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-02 14:31 -0600
Re: "duffer speak" ??? Mike can't be dishonest so what is left ? dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-11-02 16:42 -0500
Re: "duffer speak" ??? Mike can't be dishonest so what is left ? Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-02 14:19 +0000
Re: "duffer speak" ??? Mike can't be dishonest so what is left ? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-02 08:42 -0600
Re: Plonkers Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-02 07:10 +0000
Addressing duffer-speak olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-03 07:47 -0600
Re: Addressing duffer-speak wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-11-03 22:19 +0800
Re: Addressing duffer-speak olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-03 10:32 -0600
Re: Addressing duffer-speak wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-11-04 00:42 +0800
Re: Addressing duffer-speak olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-03 11:18 -0600
Re: Addressing duffer-speak wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-11-04 01:33 +0800
Re: Addressing duffer-speak olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-03 12:00 -0600
Re: Addressing duffer-speak wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-11-04 02:13 +0800
Re: Addressing duffer-speak olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-03 12:30 -0600
Re: Addressing duffer-speak wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-11-04 03:09 +0800
Re: Addressing duffer-speak olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-03 13:16 -0600
Re: Addressing duffer-speak wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-11-04 03:23 +0800
Re: Addressing duffer-speak olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-03 13:27 -0600
Re: Addressing duffer-speak wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-11-04 03:34 +0800
Re: Addressing duffer-speak olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-03 13:37 -0600
Re: Addressing duffer-speak wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-11-04 03:52 +0800
Re: Addressing duffer-speak olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-03 13:57 -0600
Re: Addressing duffer-speak wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-11-04 04:01 +0800
Re: Addressing duffer-speak olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-03 14:31 -0600
Re: Addressing duffer-speak wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-11-04 05:22 +0800
Re: Addressing duffer-speak olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-03 15:32 -0600
Re: Addressing duffer-speak Mr Flibble <flibble@red-dwarf.jmc.corp> - 2025-11-03 22:38 +0000
Re: Addressing duffer-speak "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-03 15:25 -0800
Re: Addressing duffer-speak wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-11-04 19:40 +0800
Re: Addressing duffer-speak --- head games olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-04 06:31 -0600
Re: Addressing duffer-speak --- head games dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-11-04 07:53 -0500
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