Who will win Shift-Reduce or Tabled DCG? [AI Boom] (Was: WebPL and Scryer Prolog are bad examples)

From	Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.prolog
Subject	Who will win Shift-Reduce or Tabled DCG? [AI Boom] (Was: WebPL and Scryer Prolog are bad examples)
Date	2025-10-13 15:09 +0200
Message-ID	<10citmp$vh4r$1@solani.org> (permalink)
References	<107t0fi$6bgl$1@solani.org> <10ciats$vetu$1@solani.org>

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Hi,

Maybe it is with Prolog like with Dinosaurs,
when they got extinct by a meteor crash.
All that survived were some small rodents
as the story goes. Their advantage:
- Small Size
- Burrowing Behavior
- Omnivorous Diet
- Reproductive Speed

Now Scryer Prolog uses a Shift-Reduce under
the hood, the small rodent. But it might possibly
shove their end-users heavy Tabled DCG into
the face? So that this left recursion can be solved:

expr --> expr + factor

"constraint programming" got already killed
when ILOG was bought by IBM in 2008. ILOG's
optimization solver, CPLEX, has its roots in
the CHIP (Constraint Handling in Prolog)

language, 1985 at the European Computer-Industry
Research Centre (ECRC), initially using a Prolog
language interface. So its even not a Fench product.
By the time ILOG became a commercial powerhouse,

Prolog largely disappeared from their product
codebases. There was a Transition to C++ for
Performance and Industry Adoption. I have the
gut feeling that Tabled DCG is similarly dead,

especially in the light of large languages models (LLM).
But I cannot point the figure yet perfectly
at the issues. Currently exploring the sad problem
domain of this mostlikely dead horse.

A problem could be the overkill of "Logic Grammars",
that do not tolerate incorrect texts and that cannot
be applied so easy partially. Mostlikely one has
to scrutinize the assumptions behind Tabled DCG, and

review again the possibly options beyond the beaten paths.

Bye

Mild Shock schrieb:
> Hi,
> 
> Because GenX and later suffers from:
> 
>  > Somehow methods and tools to realize
>  > efficient DCGs in Prolog are missing. Most
>  > DCG attempts that one sees succumb
>  >
>  > to some declarative nonsense, creating
>  > exponentially many spurious choice points,
>  > you find rarely somebody mastering the Art.
> 
> Modern programmers fancy nothing else than
> throwing a set of foreign library to their
> Prolog system project. This is best seen in WebPL:
> 
> LALRPOP MIT/Apache-2.0 Generate the parser
> https://github.com/w-henderson/WebPL/blob/main/dissertation.pdf
> 
> So there is no aim at creating a self hosting
> Prolog system. There is a deep distrust in
> DCGs. But why build a Prolog system that will
> 
> possibly ultimately have DCG, when you distrust
> in DCGs? The second problem of GenX and later
> is probably they don't know how to bootstrap
> 
> a Prolog system B via another Prolog system A.
> 
> Bye
> 
> P.S.: The result of using a Parser Tool are
> often frustrating on the following levels:
> - No operator table
> - Directives are fixed
> - Introducong DCGs need rebuid
> 
> Scryer Prolog has Operator Table, but mostlikely
> used a Parser Tool some time in the project,
> or programming templates borrow from Parser Tools.
> 
> Probably the worst recent example building a
> Prolog system, which would have a reference for
> the Parsing in Rust itself. So we have 2025
> 
> and there is not a single self hosting Prolog
> yet, while all other programming languages such
> as Java, golang, etc.. are self hosting.
> 
> Mild Shock schrieb:
>> Hi,
>>
>> WebPL is already outdated I guess. It doesn't
>> show the versions of the other Prolog systems
>> it is using. While I had these results for
>>
>> the primes example in the WebPL playground:
>>
>> /* Trealla Prolog WASM */
>> (23568.9ms)
>>
>> When I run the example here:
>>
>> https://php.energy/trealla.html
>>
>> I get better results:
>>
>> /* trealla-js 0.27.1 */
>>
>> ?- time(test).
>> % Time elapsed 9.907s, 11263917 Inferences, 1.137 MLips
>>
>> Bye
>

Thread

WebPL is already outdated Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-08-17 18:37 +0200
  Heap/Stack versus WAM resp. ZIP (Was: WebPL is already outdated) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-08-18 14:52 +0200
    Trealla knows Program Sharing (PS) Tricks ? (Was: Heap/Stack versus WAM resp. ZIP) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-08-18 15:06 +0200
      Smarter Partial Strings would use Program Sharing ['$append'/3] (Was: Trealla knows Program Sharing (PS) Tricks ?) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-08-18 15:42 +0200
        Static Shunting is even better [Dogelog Player] (Was: Smarter Partial Strings would use Program Sharing ['$append'/3]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-08-18 15:49 +0200
  The Artificial Intelligence Flip: Acer Swift Go! (Was: WebPL is already outdated) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-08-31 23:56 +0200
    2025 will be last year we hear of Python (Re: The Artificial Intelligence Flip: Acer Swift Go!) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-09-01 00:45 +0200
      Apertus: With love, from Switzerland [02 Sept 2025] (Re: 2025 will be last year we hear of Python) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-09-05 00:36 +0100
      Don't try this (Was: Apertus: With love, from Switzerland [02 Sept 2025] ) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-09-05 01:03 +0100
      AI means ambracing Non-Linearity (Was: 2025 will be last year we hear of Python) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-09-19 10:01 +0200
        AI soaked PCs: Is there a Copilot+ Prolog? (Was: AI means ambracing Non-Linearity) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-09-19 10:10 +0200
          The morning coffee incident [Prolog Community] (Was: AI soaked PCs: Is there a Copilot+ Prolog?) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-09-19 14:38 +0200
            Root Cause Prediction for Your Brain (Was: The morning coffee incident [Prolog Community]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-09-19 18:22 +0200
              Please delete my account and all my posts on SWI-Prolog discourse (Re: Root Cause Prediction for Your Brain) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-09-19 18:38 +0200
                I will consult a Lawyer of mine (Was: Please delete my account and all my posts on SWI-Prolog discourse) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-09-19 18:42 +0200
  Scryer Prolog unify_with_occurs_check/2 doesn't scale (Was: WebPL is already outdated) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-09-19 16:08 +0200
    How bad is Rust, can JavaScript beat it? (Was: Scryer Prolog unify_with_occurs_check/2 doesn't scale) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-09-19 16:18 +0200
    unify_with_occurs_check/2 might have been fixed (Was: Scryer Prolog unify_with_occurs_check/2 doesn't scale) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-09-25 01:50 +0200
      Had to Rollback my Jaffar Unification (Was: unify_with_occurs_check/2 might have been fixed) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-09-25 01:59 +0200
        Trealla Prolog might apply "frozeness" to cyclic terms (Was: Had to Rollback my Jaffar Unification) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-09-25 02:06 +0200
          Non-intrusive through "frozen" subcategories (Was: Trealla Prolog might apply "frozeness" to cyclic terms) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-09-25 02:21 +0200
    Scryer Prolog occurs check cannot do hydra (Was: Scryer Prolog unify_with_occurs_check/2 doesn't scale) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-09-26 12:19 +0200
  WebPL and Scryer Prolog are bad examples (Was: WebPL is already outdated) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-10-13 09:49 +0200
    Who will win Shift-Reduce or Tabled DCG? [AI Boom] (Was: WebPL and Scryer Prolog are bad examples) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-10-13 15:09 +0200
  primes.pl mainly tests the Prolog ALU [mod/2 vs rem/2] (Was: WebPL is already outdated) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-10-15 02:38 +0200
    25-30% is insane, Neural Network Branch Prediction? (Was: primes.pl mainly tests the Prolog ALU) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-10-15 04:33 +0200
      NPUs (Neural Processing Units) are the new normal (Was: 25-30% is insane, Neural Network Branch Prediction?) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-10-15 16:04 +0200
        Ask Phind: AI inflection point right now [End 2025] (Was: NPUs (Neural Processing Units) are the new normal) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-10-15 16:10 +0200
          Eat Tteokbokki before SkyNet kills you [$100 ChatGPT] (Was: Ask Phind: AI inflection point right now [End 2025]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-10-18 15:57 +0200
            Give Julio Di Egidio the bloody money [3 RMB¥ MiniMind] (Re: Eat Tteokbokki before SkyNet kills you [$100 ChatGPT]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-10-18 16:19 +0200
              Vertex AI Training is more expensive? (Was: Give Julio Di Egidio the bloody money [3 RMB¥ MiniMind]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-10-21 00:32 +0200
        The Love Affair: OpenAI and AMD (Was: NPUs (Neural Processing Units) are the new normal) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-10-18 18:59 +0200
        The NPU in your Browser [WebNN by W3C] (Was: NPUs (Neural Processing Units) are the new normal) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-10-26 08:39 +0100
          Fuzzy Alert: Boris the Loris on the Dancefloor (Was: The NPU in your Browser [WebNN by W3C]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-10-26 11:33 +0100

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