Moron @jp-diegidio clueless about Unicode (UAX#14) [Re: Most Prolog Systems didn't solve it yet [Timer Trash] (Was: Fuck Around and Find Out : SWI-Prolog Forum)

From	Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.prolog
Subject	Moron @jp-diegidio clueless about Unicode (UAX#14) [Re: Most Prolog Systems didn't solve it yet [Timer Trash] (Was: Fuck Around and Find Out : SWI-Prolog Forum)
Date	2025-10-10 10:22 +0200
Message-ID	<10cafom$qalb$1@solani.org> (permalink)
References	(1 earlier) <1055dp6$28nr1$1@solani.org> <1055dsp$28nr1$2@solani.org> <10c8mqj$p8ah$1@solani.org> <10cad15$q8r6$1@solani.org> <10cado9$q9c9$1@solani.org>

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Hi,

Now the moron @jp-diegidio writes:

 > In general, on Windows or else, I suggest
setting up your code editor(s) to only use \n
as a newline for all text files, i.e. irrespective
of the programming language and even for the data files.

What a complete jerk. He doesn't understand
the modern world which the Unicode consortium
characterizes as follows:

"Newlines are represented on different platforms
by carriage return (CR), line feed (LF), CRLF, or
next line (NEL). Not only are newlines represented
by different characters on different platforms, but
they also have ambiguous behavior even on the
same platform. These characters are often transcoded
directly into the corresponding Unicode code points
when a character set is transcoded; this means that even
programs handling pure Unicode have to deal with
the problems. Especially with the advent of the Web,
where text on a single machine can arise from many
sources, this causes a significant problem."

He is totally clueless about Unicode standard,
such as the following to adress the significant problem:

"Newline Functions are defined in the Unicode
Standard as providing additional mandatory breaks.
They are not individual characters, but are encoded
as sequences of the control characters NEL, LF,
and CR. If a character sequence for a Newline
Function contains more than one character, it
is kept together."

Bye

See also:

CR: Carriage Return (Non-tailorable)
A CR indicates a mandatory break after, unless followed by a LF.
https://www.unicode.org/reports/tr14/#CR

Unicode® 17.0.0 2025 September 9
5.8 Newline Guidelines
https://www.unicode.org/versions/Unicode17.0.0/UnicodeStandard-17.0.pdf

Mild Shock schrieb:
> Hi,
> 
> BTW: Most Prolog Systems didn't solve it yet.
> Unlike the Java solution with a state machine.
> There are also solutions, especially for the terminal,
> 
> that use a timer. Like if a CR arrives, and inside
> a certain time internal no LF arrives, then its
> recognized as sole CR inducing a <NEWLINE>.
> 
> Sounds good, doesn't work well. What if a the
> content gets piped to the stdin and has this
> "abnormal" sole CR, from an old Mac file maybe,
> 
> or from an editor that produces old Mac file format?
> 
> Bye
> 
> P.S.: The Java solution is quite straight
> forward from Java class LineNumberReader since
> JDK 1.1. I have used the realization trick
> 
> for a while in Jekejeke Prolog, with compressing
> the CR, CR LF and LF unto LF. And in Dogelog
> Player I even don't compress it anymore,
> 
> which of course challenges the Prolog tokenizer.
> 
> Mild Shock schrieb:
>> Hi,
>>
>> How it started:
>>
>> @jp-diegidio started obstructing my posts on
>> SWI-Prolog discourse forum, where I proposed
>> solutions to the new line problem, detailed
>> the quirks of Python universal newline.
>>
>> How its going:
>>
>> EricGT morons and other ban me from the
>> SWI-Prolog discourse forum on pretense of
>> aggressive behaviour. Still SWI-Prolog is
>> stuck with a brittle stream subsystem:
>>
>> Random colorized code looks nice but isn’t helpful
>> @jp-diegidio: with a sole CR at the end
>> https://swi-prolog.discourse.group/t/random-colorized-code-looks-nice-
>> but-isnt-helpful/9347
>>
>> "a sole CR" is exactly the newline case
>> that SWI-Prolog cannot handle well automatically.
>> How do we call this, FAFO, Fuck Around and Find Out?
>>
>> F around and Find Out
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOPZuXh-f5M
>>
>> With morons on board like @jp-diegidio and
>> EricGT things only slow down, and will not
>> be fixed in due time.
>>
>> Have Fun!
>>
>> Bye
>>
>> Mild Shock schrieb:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> We are happy to announce:
>>>
>>> Go Fund Me for ISO Core Standard of Prolog
>>> ===========================================
>>>
>>> "The power of Prolog—its elegant logic and unique
>>> approach to problem-solving—should be accessible
>>> to every curious mind, regardless of their
>>> financial situation. Yet for many talented
>>> students worldwide, the high cost of the
>>> official ISO standard (approximately $220 USD)
>>> creates a prohibitive barrier to a deep and
>>> formal understanding of the language.
>>>
>>> This Go Fund Me seeks to shatter that barrier.
>>> Your contribution will directly sponsor access
>>> to the ISO Prolog standard for students who
>>> cannot afford it, ensuring that the next
>>> generation of programmers, AI researchers,
>>> and logic enthusiasts can learn from the
>>> definitive source.
>>>
>>> By investing in their education, you're
>>> not just donating a document; you're fueling
>>> innovation, diversifying the field, and
>>> empowering the future pioneers of logic
>>> programming. Let's ensure that a price tag
>>> never stands in the way of a great idea."
>>>
>>> For more information contact us at:
>>>
>>> https://r.mtdv.me/giveaways/getisoprolog
>>>
>>> Bye
>>>
>>> P.S.: This Go Fund Me is not affiliated with
>>> PEG 2.0 "The Prolog Education Group".
>>>
>>> Mild Shock schrieb:
>>>> Dialect modules requires that you have a
>>>> SuperProlog, that can manage different dialects.
>>>> Currenty SuperPrologs are mostly ModulePrologs
>>>> that just swap in additional predicate definitions,
>>>>
>>>> also allow overwriting their own predicate
>>>> definitions locally, in favor of some dialect
>>>> predicate definition. And so own etc etc, I don't
>>>> know how successful this approach, it might
>>>>
>>>> then also require that set_prolog_flag/2 can work
>>>> module locally, that you can do set_prolog_flag(
>>>> double_quotes, chars) to have a Scryer, Trealla,
>>>> etc. dialect, and set_prolog_flag(double_codes,
>>>>
>>>> string) to have some SWI dialect, or
>>>> set_prolog_flag(double_codes, codes) to have
>>>> some ISO defaults dialect. For example an ISO dialect
>>>> might have this definition in their commons module:
>>>>
>>>> false :- fail.
>>>>
>>>> Since the Corrigendum 2 came rather later, so
>>>> some Prolog might have missed it, or balantly ignore
>>>> it. The Corrigendum 2 came 2012, but the ISO
>>>> standard was from 1995. Thats a gap
>>>>
>>>> of almost 20 years. Quite amazing nonsense.
>>>>
>>
>

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            Moron @jp-diegidio clueless about Unicode (UAX#14) [Re: Most Prolog Systems didn't solve it yet [Timer Trash] (Was: Fuck Around and Find Out : SWI-Prolog Forum) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-10-10 10:22 +0200
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