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Groups > comp.lang.prolog > #14845
| From | Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.prolog |
| Subject | Non-intrusive through "frozen" subcategories (Was: Trealla Prolog might apply "frozeness" to cyclic terms) |
| Date | 2025-09-25 02:21 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <10b21ts$1djl$1@solani.org> (permalink) |
| References | <107t0fi$6bgl$1@solani.org> <10ajo4u$k5kc$1@solani.org> <10b2038$1ce0$1@solani.org> <10b20kk$1cu8$1@solani.org> <10b212k$1d31$1@solani.org> |
Hi, If there would be a subcategories "acyclic" and "cyclic" inside the "frozen" category. One could indeed use safely a hybrid algorithm that is non-intrusive for frozen terms, and intrusive for non-frozen terms. Actually calling it hybrid is a little overkill. It would just stop at frozen terms. If it has the subcategories, the built-in acyclic_term/1 could also stop, and draw its result from the subcategory. This works already in formerly Jekejeke Prolog now, but not yet in Dogelog Player. That the rollback also gave a 10x-20x factor slowdown for the unary predicates is a little annonying. Must find a compromise. Bye Mild Shock schrieb: > Hi, > > I also tryed to measure Trealla Prolog. But the > measurements are strange, always 0.001 secs or > something. My suspicion is that Trealla Prolog > > might apply "frozeness" to cyclic terms. A form > of hash consing, which gives Trealla Prolog > enough information to turn certain operations > > practically into no-ops. I don't know yet how > to proof my suspicion, and don't know how to > deduce it from the source code. > > That there are kind two types of "frozen" terms, > acylic and cyclic, emerge a few days ago in > formerly Jekejeke Prolog. I can represent it > > inside the terms as null versus Variable[], in > the variable spine. But I was not yet able to > bring this feature to Dogelog Player. Because > > copy_term/2 does not yet attempt a "frozenness" > analysis. Frozen Prolog terms are only produced > during transpilation, consult or assert, > > but not yet during copy_term/2 in Dogelog Player. > > Bye > > Mild Shock schrieb: >> Hi, >> >> The facinating result was the Jaffar Unification >> beats Scryer Prolog even on the target JavaScript. >> Not to speak of the Java target, which also beat it. >> >> But I rejected Jaffar Unification, because it >> temporarily modifies my frozen terms, which might >> impede some future program sharing across >> >> premptive threads. So I rolled back Pointer based >> Jaffar Unification, and went back to Map Based >> Union Find. Overall the Map and a slightly bigger >> >> stack incures a factor 3x slowdown. So for Java I get now: >> >> /* Dogelog Player 2.1.1 for Java */ >> >> % ?- bench, bench, bench. >> % [...] >> % % Zeit 469 ms, GC 0 ms, Lips 42, Uhr 24.09.2025 20:00 >> % % Zeit 318 ms, GC 0 ms, Lips 62, Uhr 24.09.2025 20:00 >> % % Zeit 329 ms, GC 0 ms, Lips 60, Uhr 24.09.2025 20:00 >> % % Zeit 378 ms, GC 0 ms, Lips 52, Uhr 24.09.2025 20:00 >> % true. >> >> % ?- bench2, bench2, bench2. >> % [...] >> % % Zeit 847 ms, GC 0 ms, Lips 23, Uhr 25.09.2025 01:04 >> % % Zeit 506 ms, GC 0 ms, Lips 39, Uhr 25.09.2025 01:04 >> % % Zeit 186 ms, GC 0 ms, Lips 118, Uhr 25.09.2025 01:04 >> % % Zeit 418 ms, GC 0 ms, Lips 35, Uhr 25.09.2025 01:04 >> % true. >> >> In the binary predicates (bench) the factor 3x is pretty >> much seen. But in the unary predicates (bench2) the >> factor is much higher , something 10x - 20x. And JavaScript >> >> doesn't help. But this might be the price to pay for >> a "non-intrusive" algorithm. Another name I have for my >> current take is "non-tainting" algorithms. >> >> Should put a closer eye what could be done "non-intrusive", >> or maybe device an algorithm that is a mixture of "non- >> intrusive" and "intrucive". >> >> Bye >> >> Mild Shock schrieb: >>> Hi, >>> >>> Scryer Prologs unify_with_occurs_check/2 might have >>> been fixed. I can now test the following: >>> >>> /* Scryer Prolog 0.9.4-660 */ >>> >>> % ?- bench, bench, bench. >>> % [...] >>> % % CPU time: 0.148s, 57 inferences >>> % % CPU time: 0.126s, 57 inferences >>> % % CPU time: 0.214s, 58 inferences >>> % % CPU time: 0.213s, 58 inferences >>> % true. >>> >>> % ?- bench2, bench2, bench2. >>> % [...] >>> % % CPU time: 0.036s, 58 inferences >>> % % CPU time: 0.042s, 58 inferences >>> % % CPU time: 0.018s, 59 inferences >>> % % CPU time: 0.096s, 56 inferences >>> % true. >>> >>> This was the test case, it includes >>> unify_with_occurs_check/2: >>> >>> hydra(0, _) :- !. >>> hydra(N, h(X, X)) :- N > 0, N0 is N-1, hydra(N0, X). >>> >>> hydra(0, A, A) :- !. >>> hydra(N, h(X, X), A) :- N > 0, N0 is N-1, hydra(N0, X, A). >>> >>> bench :- >>> hydra(1048576, X), hydra(1048576, Y, Y), >>> time(X = Y), >>> time(unify_with_occurs_check(X, Y)), >>> time(X == Y), >>> time(compare(_, X, Y)), fail; true. >>> >>> bench2 :- >>> hydra(1048576, X), hydra(1048576, Y, Y), >>> time(copy_term(X-Y,_)), >>> time(term_variables(X-Y,_)), >>> time(\+ ground(X-Y)), >>> time(acyclic_term(X-Y)), >>> fail; true. >>> >>> Bye >>> >>> Mild Shock schrieb: >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> Since some idiots blocked me on Scryer Prolog issues, >>>> I raise the issue here. Basically uniy_with_occurs_check/2 >>>> probably does use a different implementation of unification >>>> >>>> than find for (=)/2. Because it doesn't scale, I find: >>>> >>>> /* Scryer Prolog */ >>>> ?- test3(25). >>>> % CPU time: 0.001s, 57 inferences >>>> true. >>>> >>>> ?- test4(25). >>>> % CPU time: 2.133s, 57 inferences >>>> true. >>>> >>>> Expectation would be that unify_with_occurs_check/2 >>>> does just scale like it does in SWI-Prolog. In >>>> SWI-Prolog I find: >>>> >>>> /* SWI-Prolog 9.3.30 */ >>>> ?- test3(25). >>>> % -1 inferences, 0.000 CPU in 0.000 seconds (0% CPU, Infinite Lips) >>>> true. >>>> >>>> ?- test4(25). >>>> % -1 inferences, 0.000 CPU in 0.000 seconds (0% CPU, Infinite Lips) >>>> true. >>>> >>>> The test case was simply a hydra variant. Actually the >>>> last hydra modification posted by @kuniaki, which I >>>> am currently ticking along now: >>>> >>>> hydra(0, _) :- !. >>>> hydra(N, h(X, X)):- N>0, N0 is N-1, hydra(N0, X). >>>> >>>> hydra(0, A, A) :- !. >>>> hydra(N, h(X, X), A):- N>0, N0 is N-1, hydra(N0, X, A). >>>> >>>> test3(N) :- hydra(N, X), hydra(N, Y, Y), >>>> time(X = Y). >>>> >>>> test4(N) :- hydra(N, X), hydra(N, Y, Y), >>>> time(unify_with_occurs_check(X, Y)). >>>> >>>> But of course there is a cut (!) in the first rules. >>>> >>>> Mild Shock schrieb: >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> WebPL is already outdated I guess. It doesn't >>>>> show the versions of the other Prolog systems >>>>> it is using. While I had these results for >>>>> >>>>> the primes example in the WebPL playground: >>>>> >>>>> /* Trealla Prolog WASM */ >>>>> (23568.9ms) >>>>> >>>>> When I run the example here: >>>>> >>>>> https://php.energy/trealla.html >>>>> >>>>> I get better results: >>>>> >>>>> /* trealla-js 0.27.1 */ >>>>> >>>>> ?- time(test). >>>>> % Time elapsed 9.907s, 11263917 Inferences, 1.137 MLips >>>>> >>>>> Bye >>>> >>> >> >
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WebPL is already outdated Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-08-17 18:37 +0200
Heap/Stack versus WAM resp. ZIP (Was: WebPL is already outdated) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-08-18 14:52 +0200
Trealla knows Program Sharing (PS) Tricks ? (Was: Heap/Stack versus WAM resp. ZIP) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-08-18 15:06 +0200
Smarter Partial Strings would use Program Sharing ['$append'/3] (Was: Trealla knows Program Sharing (PS) Tricks ?) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-08-18 15:42 +0200
Static Shunting is even better [Dogelog Player] (Was: Smarter Partial Strings would use Program Sharing ['$append'/3]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-08-18 15:49 +0200
The Artificial Intelligence Flip: Acer Swift Go! (Was: WebPL is already outdated) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-08-31 23:56 +0200
2025 will be last year we hear of Python (Re: The Artificial Intelligence Flip: Acer Swift Go!) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-09-01 00:45 +0200
Apertus: With love, from Switzerland [02 Sept 2025] (Re: 2025 will be last year we hear of Python) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-09-05 00:36 +0100
Don't try this (Was: Apertus: With love, from Switzerland [02 Sept 2025] ) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-09-05 01:03 +0100
AI means ambracing Non-Linearity (Was: 2025 will be last year we hear of Python) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-09-19 10:01 +0200
AI soaked PCs: Is there a Copilot+ Prolog? (Was: AI means ambracing Non-Linearity) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-09-19 10:10 +0200
The morning coffee incident [Prolog Community] (Was: AI soaked PCs: Is there a Copilot+ Prolog?) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-09-19 14:38 +0200
Root Cause Prediction for Your Brain (Was: The morning coffee incident [Prolog Community]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-09-19 18:22 +0200
Please delete my account and all my posts on SWI-Prolog discourse (Re: Root Cause Prediction for Your Brain) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-09-19 18:38 +0200
I will consult a Lawyer of mine (Was: Please delete my account and all my posts on SWI-Prolog discourse) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-09-19 18:42 +0200
Scryer Prolog unify_with_occurs_check/2 doesn't scale (Was: WebPL is already outdated) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-09-19 16:08 +0200
How bad is Rust, can JavaScript beat it? (Was: Scryer Prolog unify_with_occurs_check/2 doesn't scale) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-09-19 16:18 +0200
unify_with_occurs_check/2 might have been fixed (Was: Scryer Prolog unify_with_occurs_check/2 doesn't scale) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-09-25 01:50 +0200
Had to Rollback my Jaffar Unification (Was: unify_with_occurs_check/2 might have been fixed) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-09-25 01:59 +0200
Trealla Prolog might apply "frozeness" to cyclic terms (Was: Had to Rollback my Jaffar Unification) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-09-25 02:06 +0200
Non-intrusive through "frozen" subcategories (Was: Trealla Prolog might apply "frozeness" to cyclic terms) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-09-25 02:21 +0200
Scryer Prolog occurs check cannot do hydra (Was: Scryer Prolog unify_with_occurs_check/2 doesn't scale) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-09-26 12:19 +0200
WebPL and Scryer Prolog are bad examples (Was: WebPL is already outdated) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-10-13 09:49 +0200
Who will win Shift-Reduce or Tabled DCG? [AI Boom] (Was: WebPL and Scryer Prolog are bad examples) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-10-13 15:09 +0200
primes.pl mainly tests the Prolog ALU [mod/2 vs rem/2] (Was: WebPL is already outdated) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-10-15 02:38 +0200
25-30% is insane, Neural Network Branch Prediction? (Was: primes.pl mainly tests the Prolog ALU) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-10-15 04:33 +0200
NPUs (Neural Processing Units) are the new normal (Was: 25-30% is insane, Neural Network Branch Prediction?) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-10-15 16:04 +0200
Ask Phind: AI inflection point right now [End 2025] (Was: NPUs (Neural Processing Units) are the new normal) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-10-15 16:10 +0200
Eat Tteokbokki before SkyNet kills you [$100 ChatGPT] (Was: Ask Phind: AI inflection point right now [End 2025]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-10-18 15:57 +0200
Give Julio Di Egidio the bloody money [3 RMB¥ MiniMind] (Re: Eat Tteokbokki before SkyNet kills you [$100 ChatGPT]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-10-18 16:19 +0200
Vertex AI Training is more expensive? (Was: Give Julio Di Egidio the bloody money [3 RMB¥ MiniMind]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-10-21 00:32 +0200
The Love Affair: OpenAI and AMD (Was: NPUs (Neural Processing Units) are the new normal) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-10-18 18:59 +0200
The NPU in your Browser [WebNN by W3C] (Was: NPUs (Neural Processing Units) are the new normal) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-10-26 08:39 +0100
Fuzzy Alert: Boris the Loris on the Dancefloor (Was: The NPU in your Browser [WebNN by W3C]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-10-26 11:33 +0100
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