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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #396600
| From | Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | sci.physics.relativity |
| Subject | Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt |
| Date | 2016-10-24 07:22 +0100 |
| Organization | PointedEars Software (PES) |
| Message-ID | <10715038.O9o76ZdvQC@PointedEars.de> (permalink) |
| References | (7 earlier) <oaSdnRcRHJqJz2fKnZ2dnUU7_8zNnZ2d@giganews.com> <93a64054-8784-4689-b026-b2ffb370f065@googlegroups.com> <ddff49d9-2eca-4ac9-97cf-6042494a8655@googlegroups.com> <545140de-db04-4cee-9570-30f02e97e17b@googlegroups.com> <nu3clb$1iq2$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
Odd Bodkin wrote:
> 1. First of all, MMX was NOT in fact the basis for LC and TD. Maxwell's
> laws of electrodynamics were the basis for relativity.
Wrong. The introduction of Albert Einstein’s “On the Electrodynamics of
Moving Bodies” (translated into English in 1922/1923 from the 1905 German
original, „Zur Elektrodynamik bewegter Körper“) states:
,-<https://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/specrel/www/>
|
| […]
|
| It is known that Maxwell's electrodynamics—as usually understood at the
| present time—when applied to moving bodies, leads to asymmetries which do
| not appear to be inherent in the phenomena. […]
| Examples of this sort, together with the unsuccessful attempts to discover
^^^^^^^^
| any motion of the earth relatively to the “light medium,”
– by which Einstein *was/is* referring to the Michelson–Morley experiment
(MMX) and similar, subsequent experiments (up to 1905) that all yielded a
null result –
| suggest that the phenomena of electrodynamics as well as of mechanics
| possess no properties corresponding to the idea of absolute rest.
| They suggest rather that, as has already been shown to the first order of
| small quantities, the same laws of electrodynamics and optics will be
| valid for all frames of reference for which the equations of mechanics
| hold good.¹ We will raise this conjecture (the purport of which will
| hereafter be called the “Principle of Relativity”) to the status of a
| postulate, and also introduce another postulate, which is only apparently
| irreconcilable with the former, namely, that light is always propagated in
| empty space with a definite velocity c which is independent of the state
| of motion of the emitting body. These two postulates suffice for the
| attainment of a simple and consistent theory of the electrodynamics of
| moving bodies based on Maxwell's theory for stationary bodies. […]
Also, see below regarding length/Lorentz contraction (LC).
> 2. MMX was the basis for Lorentz's efforts in this direction, which was
> NOT relativity. Maxwell simply noted that IF length contraction held (he
> offered no mechanism by which this contraction held), then MMX could be
> explained.
Utter nonsense. The MMX took place in the summer of *1887*. Hendrik Antoon
Lorentz (1853–1928) offered length contraction, later also called Lorentz
contraction, as an explanation for the null results, in *1892*. James Clerk
Maxwell, whom we have to thank for "Maxwell’s laws of electrodynamics" (by
which you improperly refer to Maxwell’s _equations_), died in *1879*.
> But Einstein took a different approach entirely and offered a
> rationale for LC that Michelson did not.
Michelson could not offer a rationale for length contraction because it was
not conceived of yet at the time (see above). He wrote to Lord Rayleigh in
August 1887:
,-
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelson%E2%80%93Morley_experiment#Most_famous_.22failed.22_experiment>
|
| […]
|
| The Experiments on the relative motion of the earth and ether have been
| completed and the result decidedly negative. The expected deviation of
| the interference fringes from the zero should have been 0.40 of a
| fringe – the maximum displacement was 0.02 and the average much less
| than 0.01 – and then not in the right place. As displacement is
| proportional to squares of the relative velocities it follows that if
| the ether does slip past the relative velocity is less than one sixth of
| the earth’s velocity.
|
| — Albert Abraham Michelson, 1887
Wikipedia further notes, referring to Jansen & Stachel (2010) [A 5], that
| From the standpoint of the then current aether models, the experimental
| results were conflicting. The Fizeau experiment and its 1886 repetition by
| Michelson and Morley apparently confirmed the stationary aether with
| partial aether dragging, and refuted complete aether dragging. On the
| other hand, the much more precise Michelson–Morley experiment (1887)
| apparently confirmed complete aether dragging and refuted the stationary
| aether.[A 5]
Lorentz then came up with what is now called Lorentz Ether Theory (LET)
which included length contraction inasfar as that the "light ether" would
contract.
Einstein took it one step further, making the Occam’s razor assumption that
there is no ether and considering what would follow from that. It turned
out that by combining geometry with the experimentally verified frame-
invariant constant speed of light as the maximum speed for the propagation
of information, one would arrive at the Lorentz transform (instead of the
Galilean transform) and LC *naturally* without *needing* Lorentz’s
contractible ether to explain the results. Time dilation (TD) then followed
*naturally* from length contraction (and was experimentally confirmed
afterwards).
--
PointedEars
Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.
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On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-04 22:35 -0700
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Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2016-10-16 06:30 -0700
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Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-17 11:46 -0500
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Imbecile P G Riedt persists "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-10-08 19:22 -0700
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Re: Imbecile P G Riedt persists "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-10-08 20:33 -0700
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Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-10 00:53 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-10-10 04:45 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-10 05:13 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-10-10 06:03 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-10 06:13 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-10-10 06:20 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-10-10 07:20 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-10-10 23:25 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-10 18:16 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-10-10 23:07 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-10-11 05:19 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-10-11 05:39 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt paparios <paparios@gmail.com> - 2016-10-11 05:56 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt Scott <Scott@oe0vgk3s.info> - 2016-10-11 20:45 +0000
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-11 18:05 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-10-11 20:24 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-11 22:06 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-10-12 05:00 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-12 16:47 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-10-12 20:02 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt alsor@interia.pl - 2016-10-12 08:45 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-10-10 07:31 -0500
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-10-10 05:37 -0700
Cretin P G Riedt inserts foot in mouth "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-10-10 07:00 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-17 15:35 -0500
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-10-24 07:22 +0100
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-24 08:33 -0500
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-10-24 17:27 +0100
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-25 07:46 -0500
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-10-25 18:44 -0400
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Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-10-31 14:19 -0500
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Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt pnalsing@gmail.com - 2016-10-31 18:14 -0700
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Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-10-31 19:39 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-11-01 08:48 -0500
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-11-02 08:36 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-11-02 09:12 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt Nick <nick@nick.nick> - 2016-11-02 16:24 +0000
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2016-11-01 12:53 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-10-24 06:56 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt Edgar König <edgko@edgarkoenig.info> - 2016-10-24 15:48 +0000
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt Edgar König <edgko@edgarkoenig.info> - 2016-10-24 15:54 +0000
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-10-10 05:35 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-10-10 07:26 -0500
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-17 14:56 -0500
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-10-18 07:59 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-18 10:46 -0500
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt Jim Barthel <jimbart@portlanportal.info> - 2016-10-18 17:01 +0000
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-10-18 12:10 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-19 07:34 -0500
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-10-19 06:53 -0700
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Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt alsor@interia.pl - 2016-10-11 09:30 -0700
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Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt Scott <Scott@oe0vgk3s.info> - 2016-10-11 20:38 +0000
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Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-10-14 06:16 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-10-12 16:58 +1100
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-11 23:25 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-10-12 18:58 +1100
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-12 01:32 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-10-12 20:16 +1100
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-12 18:11 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-10-13 12:28 +1100
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-10-12 18:40 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-13 17:05 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-10-13 20:38 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-14 04:28 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-14 05:15 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-10-14 06:52 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-10-14 07:35 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-14 07:57 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-10-14 09:14 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-14 11:52 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-10-14 22:36 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-15 02:52 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-15 06:04 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-10-15 06:50 -0700
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Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-17 17:42 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-10-17 19:16 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-17 19:56 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-10-18 08:19 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-18 18:19 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-10-18 19:12 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt alsor@interia.pl - 2016-10-18 10:25 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt Jim Barthel <jimbart@portlanportal.info> - 2016-10-18 18:34 +0000
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Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt alsor@interia.pl - 2016-10-18 14:00 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt Jim Barthel <jimbart@portlanportal.info> - 2016-10-18 22:39 +0000
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-10-14 06:44 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-14 07:16 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-10-14 07:33 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-10-13 10:59 -0500
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt alsor@interia.pl - 2016-10-12 08:51 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2016-10-13 20:46 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-10-14 14:51 +1100
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not> - 2016-10-16 22:45 +0200
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-10-16 19:21 -0500
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt ScottPN <Scott@oe0vgk3s.info> - 2016-10-17 09:57 +0000
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not> - 2016-10-17 17:02 +0200
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt Scott <scott@oe0vgk3s.info> - 2016-10-17 15:33 +0000
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2016-10-17 12:25 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not> - 2016-10-17 22:20 +0200
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt alsor@interia.pl - 2016-10-17 10:27 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt alsor@interia.pl - 2016-10-17 10:29 -0700
Re: On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies by P G Riedt ScottPN <Scott@oe0vgk3s.info> - 2016-10-17 09:53 +0000
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