Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > uk.telecom.broadband > #42130 > unrolled thread

ADSL over FTTP

Back to article view | Back to uk.telecom.broadband

Contents

  ADSL over FTTP Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2018-11-14 02:13 +0000
    Re: ADSL over FTTP Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2018-11-14 03:29 +0000
      Re: ADSL over FTTP Mark Carver <invalid.invalid@gmx.net> - 2018-11-14 08:30 +0000
        Re: ADSL over FTTP Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2018-11-14 10:22 +0000
        Re: ADSL over FTTP Alfred <alfred@invalid.invalid> - 2018-11-14 11:57 +0000
          Re: ADSL over FTTP Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2018-11-14 12:00 +0000
            Re: ADSL over FTTP Alfred <alfred@invalid.invalid> - 2018-11-14 12:17 +0000
              Re: ADSL over FTTP Mark Carver <invalid.invalid@gmx.net> - 2018-11-14 12:30 +0000
              Re: ADSL over FTTP Alfred <alfred@invalid.invalid> - 2018-11-14 12:37 +0000
                Re: ADSL over FTTP Mark Carver <invalid.invalid@gmx.net> - 2018-11-14 12:44 +0000
                Re: ADSL over FTTP Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2018-11-14 15:30 +0000
        Re: ADSL over FTTP Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2018-11-14 21:06 +0000
          Re: ADSL over FTTP Mark Carver <invalid.invalid@gmx.net> - 2018-11-15 07:18 +0000
    Re: ADSL over FTTP Alfred <alfred@invalid.invalid> - 2018-11-14 11:28 +0000
    Re: ADSL over FTTP 7 <7@enemygadgets.com> - 2018-11-14 13:05 +0000
      Re: ADSL over FTTP +++ATH0 <news@ringpiece.local> - 2018-11-22 21:20 -0800
        Re: ADSL over FTTP grinch <grinch@somewhere.com> - 2018-11-24 14:15 +0000
          Re: ADSL over FTTP Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2018-11-24 23:00 +0000
            Re: ADSL over FTTP Alfred <alfred@invalid.invalid> - 2018-11-25 19:32 +0000
          Re: ADSL over FTTP Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2018-11-25 21:57 +0000
            Re: ADSL over FTTP grinch <grinch@somewhere.com> - 2018-11-27 21:04 +0000

Page 1 of 2  [1] 2  Next page →

#42130 — ADSL over FTTP

I'm trying to figure out what is available on a FTTP line. 
It's an almost-new-build property which currently has BT FTTP.
Magsys Codelook says for the postcode:

"FTTC Available from 11th January 2017, being expanded by March 2019, FTTP
from 25th July 2016, FTTP on Demand."

However the address doesn't show on some checkers and the phone number isn't
recognised.  Confusingly, around the corner is a site wired by IFNL - but I
don't think this one is.  So I suppose it's Openreach FTTP, but I'm not 100%.
(Some checkers accept postcode+number, but I'm not clear if they're giving
results based on postcode alone)

I thought there was a way to get regular ADSL packages (<24Mb) over FTTP
plant?  Is this general, or is it specific to particular providers?  Can you
just order up ADSL from whoever and Openreach will just run it over fibre
not copper?

In which case, how does it work with modems?  Will the new ISP send you a
FTTP modem (if the existing BT one can't be repurposed)?

Thanks
Theo

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]

#42131

Theo wrote:

> I thought there was a way to get regular ADSL packages (<24Mb) over FTTP
> plant?  Is this general, or is it specific to particular providers?  Can you
> just order up ADSL from whoever and Openreach will just run it over fibre
> not copper?

If the ISP supports FTTP (not all do) you can pay a price equal to the 
VDSL price and get capped VDSL speeds (i.e. 40/10 or 80/20) rather than 
ponying up for the full 330/30 which you may not require.

> In which case, how does it work with modems?

FTTP gets an ONT rather than a modem

<https://youtu.be/1-6LKAPlEyk>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#42132

On 14/11/2018 03:29, Andy Burns wrote:
> Theo wrote:
> 
>> I thought there was a way to get regular ADSL packages (<24Mb) over FTTP
>> plant?  Is this general, or is it specific to particular providers?  
>> Can you
>> just order up ADSL from whoever and Openreach will just run it over fibre
>> not copper?
> 
> If the ISP supports FTTP (not all do) you can pay a price equal to the 
> VDSL price and get capped VDSL speeds (i.e. 40/10 or 80/20) rather than 
> ponying up for the full 330/30 which you may not require.

There are currently only 7 ISPs (including BT Retail) that offer FTTC
connections. The only one that offers 'consumer' pricing is BT. Next
cheapest are Zen I think

https://www.homeandbusiness.openreach.co.uk/fibre-broadband/ultrafast-broadband/ultrafast-fibre-buy-it-now

Plusnet were running a trial for existing customers, but that's ceased, 
and they seen tight lipped regarding launching a package.


-- 
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#42133

Mark Carver wrote:

> There are currently only 7 ISPs (including BT Retail) that offer FTTC

Didn't realise it was that few

Theoretically I can have FTTPoD here, god knows what the price would be, 
I have a Virgin FTTH duct 6" away from my wall but I'm not bothered 
about signing up with them, 80/20 FTTC is fine for me.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#42135

> There are currently only 7 ISPs (including BT Retail) that offer FTTC
> connections. The only one that offers 'consumer' pricing is BT. Next
> cheapest are Zen I think
> 
> https://www.homeandbusiness.openreach.co.uk/fibre-broadband/ultrafast-broadband/ultrafast-fibre-buy-it-now
> 
> Plusnet were running a trial for existing customers, but that's ceased, 
> and they seen tight lipped regarding launching a package.

I have now Plusnet 45/15Mbps FTTC (VDSL) at home.  They use the BT netnork.
What was what Plusnet was trialing?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#42136

Alfred wrote:

> I have now Plusnet 45/15Mbps FTTC (VDSL) at home.  They use the BT netnork.
> What was what Plusnet was trialing?

The trial is/was FTTP.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#42137

>> I have now Plusnet 45/15Mbps FTTC (VDSL) at home.  They use the BT netnork.
>> What was what Plusnet was trialing?
> 
> The trial is/was FTTP.

Now I see, you mean FTTPoD.

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2018/09/openreach-place-stop-sell-on-fttpod-orders-after-spike-in-demand.html

BTW, is there a way to get residential 'real fiber' through another
company that is not Virgin?

Either resellers of the Virgin network or somebody having their own
network for residential customers.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#42138

On 14/11/2018 12:17, Alfred wrote:
>>> I have now Plusnet 45/15Mbps FTTC (VDSL) at home.  They use the BT netnork.
>>> What was what Plusnet was trialing?
>>
>> The trial is/was FTTP.
> 
> Now I see, you mean FTTPoD.
> 
> https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2018/09/openreach-place-stop-sell-on-fttpod-orders-after-spike-in-demand.html
> 
> BTW, is there a way to get residential 'real fiber' through another
> company that is not Virgin?

Well yes, (apart from FTTP-oD) BT Openreach provided FTTP, mostly new 
build housing of course.

My lad has it in a new build flat he moved into a year ago. It's really 
depressing to stand in the road and see about 20 domestic BT hub WiFi 
SSIDs. (At least I've given him a non BT hub, and set an original SSID)

At a consumer level pricing etc, the realistic choice is only BT Retail 
(it's the same price as their FTTC 'Infinity' packages), and no you 
can't get a 'up to 17 Megs 'ADSL' style package, which if you only 
require broadband for light tablet/phone use (like my mother uses for 
instance), is a PITA.

Sky, TalkTalk, and now PlusNet seem to have no burning desire to offer 
FTTP packages (apparently the provision method with BT is very different 
to ADSL/FTTC, so it's a staff training cost vs income thing)


-- 
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#42139

Sorry, I have not been clear in my last message.

I see that OpenReach and other small companies are building their own
FTTP networks (I guess mostly in newly built high rises).

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2018/04/building-uk-summary-fttp-broadband-rollouts-investment.html

My question is, are there any resellers of those FTTP 'real fiber' networks?
Does Virgin allow resellers?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#42140

On 14/11/2018 12:37, Alfred wrote:
> Sorry, I have not been clear in my last message.
> 
> I see that OpenReach and other small companies are building their own
> FTTP networks (I guess mostly in newly built high rises).
> 
> https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2018/04/building-uk-summary-fttp-broadband-rollouts-investment.html

It's not just high rise towers, it's most (if not all now) new housing 
developments. Everything from council housing, to posh 8 bed dwelling 
housing estates.

It's up to the developer to choose which fibre infrastructure teLco 
installs the network. There's handful of other companies that
install FTTP networks on developments, and they offer a handful
of resellers you can choose to have a broadband service with.

Reading some of the threads in the ThinkBroadband Forum, if you do
move into a new dwelling, back sure it has a BT Openreach provided
FTTP system !

-- 
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#42143

Alfred <alfred@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> My question is, are there any resellers of those FTTP 'real fiber' networks?
> Does Virgin allow resellers?

IFNL, now called OFNL, have a handful of resellers:
https://www.ofnl.co.uk/availableisps

But it's a complete mess of a patchwork of different infrastructure
providers and different ISPs - and it's something that people who move into
new properties don't realise how limited their options are.

Theo

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#42145

On 14/11/2018 08:30, Mark Carver wrote:
> 
> There are currently only 7 ISPs (including BT Retail) that offer FTTC
> connections.

ITYM FTTP ...

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#42146

On 14/11/2018 21:06, Vir Campestris wrote:
> On 14/11/2018 08:30, Mark Carver wrote:
>>
>> There are currently only 7 ISPs (including BT Retail) that offer FTTC
>> connections.
> 
> ITYM FTTP ...

Well spotted !

-- 
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#42134

> In which case, how does it work with modems?  Will the new ISP send you a
> FTTP modem (if the existing BT one can't be repurposed)?

To be precise, most ISPs just send cheap integrated modem-routers that
are impossible to configure to work as modem only.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#42141

On 14/11/2018 02:13, Theo wrote:
> I'm trying to figure out what is available on a FTTP line.

No such thing as ADSL over FTTP.

What you got is fiber to a £50,000 cabinet that multiplexes
100+ telephone, TV and Internet lines to ONE FIBER
slowing everyone down.

The remaining fibers are sold between £8000 to £100,000
because BT (Britich Telecum) thick shiites added with fake
accounting the £50,000 cabinet and all the analogue lines
to work out the price the remaining fibers.

The remaining fiber is worth exactly £150 install charge
and £30 a month for 1gbit fiber link if say they used
several hundred cores. So no they didn't, they installed
4 or 5 fibers even though 96 core is $2 per meter.

But in order to lie to goverment, treasury, DCMS and offcum,
they use the fake price per cable instead of the real price.
Minimum £1500 per fiber.

A 3456 core fiber cable is 1.5" in diameter could have
been laid instead and would have paid for itself in
under 2 years at £30 per 1gbit symmetric fiber connection
to the home and install charge of £150 per connection.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#42246

On 2018-11-14 05:05, 7 wrote:
> 
> A 3456 core fiber cable is 1.5" in diameter could have
> been laid instead and would have paid for itself in
> under 2 years at £30 per 1gbit symmetric fiber connection
> to the home and install charge of £150 per connection.

Apart from the fact you can't buy more than about 1Mbps CIR for your
1Gbps bearer after the cost of providing the infrastructure is accounted
for, unless you are running a loss leader.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#42298

Please don't reply to the village idiot ,in those 4 lines he proves he 
knows nothing about telecoms and even less about business.He regularly 
posts his totally uninformed drivel.

Also in reply to the topic of this tread, I read the BT sin on FTTP and 
they present it as Ethernet,  so  how/why you would want to try to get 
adsl working over it is beyond me.

Obviously you can get a PPP session working over it and therefore it 
would work as as any other home internet connection.

As it runs over Ethernet I am not sure you could call it broadband in 
the correct use of that term ,others may know better than me. I cant be 
bothered to research the layer 1 and 2 details for Ethernet.


On 23/11/2018 05:20, +++ATH0 wrote:
> On 2018-11-14 05:05, 7 wrote:
>>
>> A 3456 core fiber cable is 1.5" in diameter could have
>> been laid instead and would have paid for itself in
>> under 2 years at £30 per 1gbit symmetric fiber connection
>> to the home and install charge of £150 per connection.
> 
> Apart from the fact you can't buy more than about 1Mbps CIR for your
> 1Gbps bearer after the cost of providing the infrastructure is accounted
> for, unless you are running a loss leader.
> 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#42321

grinch <grinch@somewhere.com> wrote:
> Also in reply to the topic of this tread, I read the BT sin on FTTP and 
> they present it as Ethernet,  so  how/why you would want to try to get 
> adsl working over it is beyond me.

Not the analogue side of ADSL, but paying the price of a 17Mbps package from
the usual suspects (Sky, Plusnet, TalkTalk etc) rather than 40/80/300Mbps
package.  A lot of people don't need much bandwidth, and if their new-build
only comes with FTTP they're stuck paying more than someone who just has
copper.

https://www.homeandbusiness.openreach.co.uk/fibre-broadband/ultrafast-broadband/ultrafast-fibre-buy-it-now
is the list of FTTP providers, by the way.  The cheapest seems to be
Spectrum, at 25 pounds per month isn't as bad as BT but it's still about
double the deals you get from Sky etc on copper.

Theo

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#42334

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> grinch <grinch@somewhere.com> wrote:
>> Also in reply to the topic of this tread, I read the BT sin on FTTP and 
>> they present it as Ethernet,  so  how/why you would want to try to get 
>> adsl working over it is beyond me.
> 
> Not the analogue side of ADSL, but paying the price of a 17Mbps package from
> the usual suspects (Sky, Plusnet, TalkTalk etc) rather than 40/80/300Mbps
> package.  A lot of people don't need much bandwidth, and if their new-build
> only comes with FTTP they're stuck paying more than someone who just has
> copper.
> 
> https://www.homeandbusiness.openreach.co.uk/fibre-broadband/ultrafast-broadband/ultrafast-fibre-buy-it-now
> is the list of FTTP providers, by the way.  The cheapest seems to be
> Spectrum, at 25 pounds per month isn't as bad as BT but it's still about
> double the deals you get from Sky etc on copper.

Appart from money there may be more reasons to choose DSL sometimes.

In my experience with FTTP providers overseas in the US, I have seen
horrible things, like putting customers behind a NAT, and having to
call the customer service to open a port.  In that case it wasn't the
cable-modem, the appartment had an ethernet socket, so you just used
your own router with DHCP.

In the European continent, interesting things also happen, like using
the cheapest network carrier companies to connect their networks to
the internet, which results in ping times worser than ADSL, even in
the bandwidth they give is much higher than ADSL.  Also giving faulty
integrated cable-modem routers, that give high bandwidth when they
work as modem-routers, but when you make them work as modem give lower
bandwidth.

In the UK I never had the chance to try FTTP providers, but there must
be a lot of interesting stories to tell.

FTTP is not a panacea.  Do not expect it to fix all your internet
connection problems.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#42338

On 24/11/2018 14:15, grinch wrote:
> Please don't reply to the village idiot ,in those 4 lines he proves he 
> knows nothing about telecoms and even less about business.He regularly 
> posts his totally uninformed drivel.
> 
At least he knows not to top post.

> Also in reply to the topic of this tread, I read the BT sin on FTTP and 
> they present it as Ethernet,  so  how/why you would want to try to get 
> adsl working over it is beyond me.
> 
With you there.
> Obviously you can get a PPP session working over it and therefore it 
> would work as as any other home internet connection.
> 
Why would you want to do that?

> As it runs over Ethernet I am not sure you could call it broadband in 
> the correct use of that term ,others may know better than me. I cant be 
> bothered to research the layer 1 and 2 details for Ethernet.

It doesn't run over Ethernet, it runs over GPON and I've never bothered 
to look at what the protocol is. There's a fibre modem, and what comes 
out of that is cat5(ish) running TCP/IP (4 and 6) over Ethernet.

BT provide a second box, which is a standard ADSL modem/router - but the 
ADSL is turned off. It's connected to the fibre modem over Ethernet, And 
I think it does all the firewall work as well ad being an Ethernet 
switch and an WiFi hub.

Andy

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

Page 1 of 2  [1] 2  Next page →

Back to top | Article view | uk.telecom.broadband

csiph-web