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iCloud or their cloud?

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  iCloud or their cloud? Frederick <fred@ypical.demon.invalid> - 2025-02-17 18:39 +0000
    Re: iCloud or their cloud? TimS <tim@streater.me.uk> - 2025-02-17 18:41 +0000
    Re: iCloud or their cloud? liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2025-02-17 21:30 +0000
      Re: iCloud or their cloud? John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2025-02-18 11:46 +0000
        Re: iCloud or their cloud? Alan B <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> - 2025-02-22 13:52 +0000
      Re: iCloud or their cloud? Frederick <fred@ypical.demon.invalid> - 2025-02-21 18:17 +0000
        Re: iCloud or their cloud? Andy H <thewildrover@icloud.com> - 2025-02-22 07:27 +0000
          Re: iCloud or their cloud? TimS <tim@streater.me.uk> - 2025-02-22 08:03 +0000
            Re: iCloud or their cloud? RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> - 2025-02-22 08:44 +0000
              Re: iCloud or their cloud? Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-02-22 09:04 +0000
                Re: iCloud or their cloud? Chris Ridd <chrisridd@mac.com> - 2025-02-22 18:36 +0000
                  Re: iCloud or their cloud? Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> - 2025-02-22 20:36 +0000
                    Re: iCloud or their cloud? Alan B <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> - 2025-02-22 20:51 +0000
              Re: iCloud or their cloud? Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> - 2025-02-22 09:36 +0000
                Re: iCloud or their cloud? RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> - 2025-02-23 06:23 +0000
              Re: iCloud or their cloud? Alan B <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> - 2025-02-22 10:02 +0000
                Re: iCloud or their cloud? Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> - 2025-02-22 10:28 +0000
                Re: iCloud or their cloud? Andy H <thewildrover@icloud.com> - 2025-02-22 15:43 +0000
            Re: iCloud or their cloud? David Kennedy <davidkennedygm@gmail.com> - 2025-02-23 11:29 +0000
              Re: iCloud or their cloud? Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> - 2025-02-23 12:38 +0000
                Re: iCloud or their cloud? Alan B <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> - 2025-02-23 12:48 +0000
                Re: iCloud or their cloud? TimS <tim@streater.me.uk> - 2025-02-23 13:57 +0000
          Re: iCloud or their cloud? Bruce <07.013@scorecrow.com> - 2025-02-23 01:27 +0000
          Re: iCloud or their cloud? Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2025-02-25 17:56 +0100
            Re: iCloud or their cloud? Chris Ridd <chrisridd@mac.com> - 2025-03-05 05:46 +0000
              Re: iCloud or their cloud? Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2025-03-05 08:14 +0100
              Re: iCloud or their cloud? Mark <captain.black@gmail.com> - 2025-03-05 10:09 +0000
                Re: iCloud or their cloud? Chris Ridd <chrisridd@mac.com> - 2025-03-05 13:13 +0000
                  Re: iCloud or their cloud? liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2025-03-05 13:56 +0000
                  Re: iCloud or their cloud? Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> - 2025-03-05 15:33 +0000
        Re: iCloud or their cloud? nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2025-02-25 14:21 +0100
      Re: iCloud or their cloud? Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2025-02-25 17:48 +0100

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#180288 — iCloud or their cloud?

Given current USA politics and the UK government's demands for access, is
now a good time to remove one's data and cease the use of iCloud?

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#180289

On 17 Feb 2025 at 18:39:10 GMT, "Frederick" <fred@ypical.demon.invalid> wrote:

> Given current USA politics and the UK government's demands for access, is
> now a good time to remove one's data and cease the use of iCloud?

I can't cease something I haven't started. However, the same applies to
DropBox, which I am making use of.
-- 
Tim

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#180299

Frederick <fred@ypical.demon.invalid> wrote:

> Given current USA politics and the UK government's demands for access, is
> now a good time to remove one's data and cease the use of iCloud?

I know of other groups, who would have nothing to hide from a reasonable
government, who are now recommending that their members stop using
certain American media sites.


-- 
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

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#180327

On Mon, 17 Feb 2025 21:30:33 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:

>Frederick <fred@ypical.demon.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Given current USA politics and the UK government's demands for access, is
>> now a good time to remove one's data and cease the use of iCloud?
>
>I know of other groups, who would have nothing to hide from a reasonable
>government, who are now recommending that their members stop using
>certain American media sites.

 I don't know how far this has gone nor how real the reports are but I
have read that Melon Mush has armies of little children busily
invading official buildings, raiding their files and stealing vast
wadges of personal information such as health, employment, financial
and tax records. 

 If Smelly Mush can be allowed to do this inside restricted,
confidential, official file systems there is probably not going to be
much opposition when he does it to personal information stored by
commercial companies such as Meta, Apple, Microsoft, Imgur, YouTube,
Banks, Finance Houses, Estate Agencies, Hospitals and Insurance
Companies. 

 Why Melted Tush would *care* about your Pinterest profile is a
mystery but it seems like he does. Or his Russian and Saudi friends
do. Or something. 

 For my part, I've never trusted "social media". I always thought that
they would eventually bundle up all that data for sale to Psychology
Departments of Universities or advertisers or cops profiling us. Maybe
all three. 

 Letting Melon Must loose on the USofA's once-protected and
once-confidential files is not nice but it's not entirely unexpected. 

 A TV program called "Guardians" showed what this sort of behaviour
could lead to. "Death By Brown Envelope" was an interesting episode. 

 That was not, by far, the only hint we've had over the decades. 

 Notice, I don't mention Mr. Blair's little story. 

                                                           J.  

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#180421

John <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:

 [mighty snippage]

>  Notice, I don't mention Mr. Blair's little story. 

But what about Komrade Krosnov’s story.

<https://bylinetimes.com/2025/02/21/donald-trump-was-recruited-by-the-kgb-under-codename-krasnov-claims-former-soviet-spy-chief/>

Sorry I just couldn’t resist ;-)

-- 
Cheers, Alan

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#180397

In message <1r7x4ux.ci3spb1ibii6lN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>
     liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:

> Frederick <fred@ypical.demon.invalid> wrote:
> 
> > Given current USA politics and the UK government's demands for access,
> > is now a good time to remove one's data and cease the use of iCloud?
> 
> I know of other groups, who would have nothing to hide from a reasonable
> government, who are now recommending that their members stop using
> certain American media sites.

Here we go...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgj54eq4vejo

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#180414

Frederick <fred@ypical.demon.invalid> wrote:
> In message <1r7x4ux.ci3spb1ibii6lN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>
>      liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
> 
>> Frederick <fred@ypical.demon.invalid> wrote:
>> 
>>> Given current USA politics and the UK government's demands for access,
>>> is now a good time to remove one's data and cease the use of iCloud?
>> 
>> I know of other groups, who would have nothing to hide from a reasonable
>> government, who are now recommending that their members stop using
>> certain American media sites.
> 
> Here we go...
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgj54eq4vejo

So it’s happened then!

Now what?

Well, it’s not actually a feature I had utilised, yet! However, I feel this
is just the start of a journey down a deep and complex rabbit hole.

OK, so so the knee jerk reaction is to ditch iCloud and move to another
cloud service. But surely that’s not going to fix anything. This ruling
will apply to any cloud service that offers end to end encryption. Wouldn’t
it? If not, then it just proves that our government has a vendetta against
Apple as a company. I certainly don’t think trusting in Google or M$ is
much of a solution either (perhaps the only alternatives that might be able
to replace the services I currently need).

I don’t know what the answer is, I have nothing to hide, but I also value
my privacy and security as an individual. I don’t post photos, or much
else, on social media platforms anymore - some specialist forums I do use
from time to time, but my FB usage is very rare, and limited to the
occasional ‘like’ or comment - I have no other social media accounts.

I prefer to be selective about what I share with the world, because I am a
private person. I also have a distrust in the abilities and intentions of
those in power, and big corporations whose main agenda is to keep their
coffers full, and share holders happy.

Of course I appreciate Apple are one of those, but I have to go with
something, and for my money, and the services I do want to use, I think
Apple offer the lesser of all the evils out there (based on 30 years as a
customer).

I just find it amazing that our thick government have succeeded in removing
a key reason why people choose a company such as Apple. As far as I’m
concerned, this is bullshit,  and they obviously have no idea about the
real world.

Perhaps I’ll just roll back a few years, and get an Atari ST again, and a
Nokia 3310 (I actually still have a Nokia 1100 in a drawer somewhere) ;-).
 
-- 
Andy H

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#180415

On 22 Feb 2025 at 07:27:52 GMT, "Andy H" <thewildrover@icloud.com> wrote:

> I just find it amazing that our thick government have succeeded in removing
> a key reason why people choose a company such as Apple. As far as I’m
> concerned, this is bullshit,  and they obviously have no idea about the
> real world.

Some of us did try to warn about that ahead of time, but it seems not enough
people took any notice.

-- 
We knew this Labour Government would be inept ...
We didn't expect them to be this inept ...
We didn't expect them to be this inept, this soon.

James Cleverly,  10th Feb 2025

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#180416

On 22 Feb 2025 at 08:03:25 GMT, TimS wrote:

> On 22 Feb 2025 at 07:27:52 GMT, "Andy H" <thewildrover@icloud.com> wrote:
> 
>> I just find it amazing that our thick government have succeeded in removing
>> a key reason why people choose a company such as Apple. As far as I’m
>> concerned, this is bullshit,  and they obviously have no idea about the
>> real world.
> 

Having listened to various radio reports, nobody's answered the question: why
didn't Apple refuse to capitulate? In much the same way as they refused FBI
access a few years ago.

> Some of us did try to warn about that ahead of time, but it seems not enough
> people took any notice.

It seems most people don't know or care - according to some expert on R4.

For myself, I'm not sure how to challenge the decision. Stiff letter to my MP?

-- 
Cheers, Rob, Sheffield UK

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#180417

RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
> On 22 Feb 2025 at 08:03:25 GMT, TimS wrote:
> 
>> On 22 Feb 2025 at 07:27:52 GMT, "Andy H" <thewildrover@icloud.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I just find it amazing that our thick government have succeeded in removing
>>> a key reason why people choose a company such as Apple. As far as I’m
>>> concerned, this is bullshit,  and they obviously have no idea about the
>>> real world.
>> 
> 
> Having listened to various radio reports, nobody's answered the question: why
> didn't Apple refuse to capitulate? 

Indeed they just rolled over. I wonder if it's to do with the mood in the
US than the actual request. Standing up to government is not a good idea. 

> In much the same way as they refused FBI
> access a few years ago.

It is a little different here. This is just a toggle, whereas the previous
one was to help the authorities break their own systems. 

>> Some of us did try to warn about that ahead of time, but it seems not enough
>> people took any notice.
> 
> It seems most people don't know or care - according to some expert on R4.
> 
> For myself, I'm not sure how to challenge the decision. Stiff letter to my MP?

That does seem to be the only option. 

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#180423

On 22/02/2025 09:04, Chris wrote:
> RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
>> On 22 Feb 2025 at 08:03:25 GMT, TimS wrote:
>> It seems most people don't know or care - according to some expert on R4.
>>
>> For myself, I'm not sure how to challenge the decision. Stiff letter to my MP?
> 
> That does seem to be the only option.

Certainly try, but I did it last time and got the proverbial finger from 
my (now ex) MP.

-- 
Chris

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#180424

On 22 Feb 2025 at 18:36:29 GMT, "Chris Ridd" <chrisridd@mac.com> wrote:

> On 22/02/2025 09:04, Chris wrote:
>> RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
>>> On 22 Feb 2025 at 08:03:25 GMT, TimS wrote:
>>> It seems most people don't know or care - according to some expert on R4.
>>> 
>>> For myself, I'm not sure how to challenge the decision. Stiff letter to my MP?
>> 
>> That does seem to be the only option.
> 
> Certainly try, but I did it last time and got the proverbial finger from
> my (now ex) MP.

My previous MP (from the twat party) I wrote to once to thank him for
voting against some horrible invasion of privacy bill. He wrote back to
say "yes, it didn't go far enough".

He got punted at the last election, thankfully.

    Cheers - Jaimie
-- 
To every complex problem there is a solution which
is simple, neat and wrong.
                              -- HL Mencken

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#180425

Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> wrote:
> On 22 Feb 2025 at 18:36:29 GMT, "Chris Ridd" <chrisridd@mac.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 22/02/2025 09:04, Chris wrote:
>>> RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
>>>> On 22 Feb 2025 at 08:03:25 GMT, TimS wrote:
>>>> It seems most people don't know or care - according to some expert on R4.
>>>> 
>>>> For myself, I'm not sure how to challenge the decision. Stiff letter to my MP?
>>> 
>>> That does seem to be the only option.
>> 
>> Certainly try, but I did it last time and got the proverbial finger from
>> my (now ex) MP.
> 
> My previous MP (from the twat party) I wrote to once to thank him for
> voting against some horrible invasion of privacy bill. He wrote back to
> say "yes, it didn't go far enough".
> 
> He got punted at the last election, thankfully.

Change of MP and change of party at last election here but just as inept
sadly. And I voted for the current MP too  :(

-- 
Cheers, Alan

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#180418

On 22 Feb 2025 at 08:44:03 GMT, "RJH" <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
> 
> Having listened to various radio reports, nobody's answered the question: why
> didn't Apple refuse to capitulate?

Mostly as Chris said. Plus I'm not really keen on tech companies
whimsically disobeying national laws (even though in this case the law
is absolutely fucking stupid).

>  In much the same way as they refused FBI
> access a few years ago.

Completely different situation tech-wise and legally.

> For myself, I'm not sure how to challenge the decision. Stiff letter to my MP?

Yes.

Also the point that almost no-one *used* ADP since it's not a default is
illuminating... if you didn't have it enabled already, why freak out
that it's no longer allowed?

I do roll my eyes when "Apple is legally required to disable optional
feature that few use" gets so many headlines and handwringing, when
"Google is already actively violating privacy laws and sells all your
usage data" doesn't.
https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/googles-new-policy-tracks-all-your-devices-with-no-opt-out/

    Cheers - Jaimie

-- 
If you mean 'am I serious about what I do', the answer is yes.
If you mean 'am I serious about how I do it', the answer is no.

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#180434

On 22 Feb 2025 at 09:36:59 GMT, Jaimie Vandenbergh wrote:

> On 22 Feb 2025 at 08:44:03 GMT, "RJH" <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Having listened to various radio reports, nobody's answered the question: why
>> didn't Apple refuse to capitulate?
> 
> Mostly as Chris said. Plus I'm not really keen on tech companies
> whimsically disobeying national laws (even though in this case the law
> is absolutely fucking stupid).
> 

Well, that's the point - stupid law. And the lack of discussion/presentation
of any evidence. Does weaking privacy lead to a safer society? It may - but
let's talk about it.

>>  In much the same way as they refused FBI
>> access a few years ago.
> 
> Completely different situation tech-wise and legally.
> 

Oh OK - I meant what looks like caving in to government, rather than any
technical or legal similarity.

>> For myself, I'm not sure how to challenge the decision. Stiff letter to my MP?
> 
> Yes.
> 
> Also the point that almost no-one *used* ADP since it's not a default is
> illuminating... if you didn't have it enabled already, why freak out
> that it's no longer allowed?
> 

Yes, thanks - TBH, hadn't realised that - it is (of course) 'off' on my system
:-)

> I do roll my eyes when "Apple is legally required to disable optional
> feature that few use" gets so many headlines and handwringing, when
> "Google is already actively violating privacy laws and sells all your
> usage data" doesn't.
> https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/googles-new-policy-tracks-all-your-devices-with-no-opt-out/

Yes OK, doesn't make it right.

And I also don't buy the 'I've nothing to hide' argument presented elsewhere
in this thread. Plenty of miscarriages of justice where authorities make the
innocent appear guilty (Bham 6 etc.). An AI scan of my data could easily set
me up as a suspect for any of a number of crimes. Just compile
means/motive/opportunity. All I have to do is piss off those authorities . . .

-- 
Cheers, Rob, Sheffield UK

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#180419

On 22 Feb 2025 at 08:44:03 GMT, "RJH" <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:

> On 22 Feb 2025 at 08:03:25 GMT, TimS wrote:
> 
>> On 22 Feb 2025 at 07:27:52 GMT, "Andy H" <thewildrover@icloud.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I just find it amazing that our thick government have succeeded in removing
>>> a key reason why people choose a company such as Apple. As far as I’m
>>> concerned, this is bullshit,  and they obviously have no idea about the
>>> real world.
>> 
> 
> Having listened to various radio reports, nobody's answered the question: why
> didn't Apple refuse to capitulate? In much the same way as they refused FBI
> access a few years ago.
> 
>> Some of us did try to warn about that ahead of time, but it seems not enough
>> people took any notice.
> 
> It seems most people don't know or care - according to some expert on R4.
> 
> For myself, I'm not sure how to challenge the decision. Stiff letter to my MP?

I don't use ADP nor do the majority of Apple users. Will writing to one's MP
actually make any difference? With a 400+ majority I can't see the government
backing down.

-- 
Cheers, Alan

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#180420

On 22/02/2025 10:02, Alan B wrote:
> On 22 Feb 2025 at 08:44:03 GMT, "RJH" <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 22 Feb 2025 at 08:03:25 GMT, TimS wrote:
>>
>>> On 22 Feb 2025 at 07:27:52 GMT, "Andy H" <thewildrover@icloud.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I just find it amazing that our thick government have succeeded in removing
>>>> a key reason why people choose a company such as Apple. As far as I’m
>>>> concerned, this is bullshit,  and they obviously have no idea about the
>>>> real world.
>>>
>>
>> Having listened to various radio reports, nobody's answered the question: why
>> didn't Apple refuse to capitulate? In much the same way as they refused FBI
>> access a few years ago.
>>
>>> Some of us did try to warn about that ahead of time, but it seems not enough
>>> people took any notice.
>>
>> It seems most people don't know or care - according to some expert on R4.
>>
>> For myself, I'm not sure how to challenge the decision. Stiff letter to my MP?
> 
> I don't use ADP nor do the majority of Apple users. Will writing to one's MP
> actually make any difference? With a 400+ majority I can't see the government
> backing down.
> 

They are in thrall to the "everyone who uses encryption is a paedophile" 
pressure groups.
-- 
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

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#180422

Alan B <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
> On 22 Feb 2025 at 08:44:03 GMT, "RJH" <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 22 Feb 2025 at 08:03:25 GMT, TimS wrote:
>> 
>>> On 22 Feb 2025 at 07:27:52 GMT, "Andy H" <thewildrover@icloud.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I just find it amazing that our thick government have succeeded in removing
>>>> a key reason why people choose a company such as Apple. As far as I’m
>>>> concerned, this is bullshit,  and they obviously have no idea about the
>>>> real world.
>>> 
>> 
>> Having listened to various radio reports, nobody's answered the question: why
>> didn't Apple refuse to capitulate? In much the same way as they refused FBI
>> access a few years ago.
>> 
>>> Some of us did try to warn about that ahead of time, but it seems not enough
>>> people took any notice.
>> 
>> It seems most people don't know or care - according to some expert on R4.
>> 
>> For myself, I'm not sure how to challenge the decision. Stiff letter to my MP?
> 
> I don't use ADP nor do the majority of Apple users. Will writing to one's MP
> actually make any difference? With a 400+ majority I can't see the government
> backing down.

No, I never intended to use it myself. It’s just where this is going to
lead that’s concerning.

I seem to recall reading an article that suggested ADP was mostly intended
for high risk users, such as journalists (don’t care about those myself!),
or (ironically) government officials! Nice one guys - consider your foot to
be shot ;-).

-- 
Andy H

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#180435

On 22/02/2025 08:03, TimS wrote:
> We knew this Labour Government would be inept ...
> We didn't expect them to be this inept ...
> We didn't expect them to be this inept, this soon.
> 
> James Cleverly,  10th Feb 2025

I'm always impressed when anyone can find something good to say about James 
[not very] Cleverly

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#180436

On 23/02/2025 11:29, David Kennedy wrote:
> On 22/02/2025 08:03, TimS wrote:
>> We knew this Labour Government would be inept ...
>> We didn't expect them to be this inept ...
>> We didn't expect them to be this inept, this soon.
>>
>> James Cleverly,  10th Feb 2025
> 
> I'm always impressed when anyone can find something good to say about 
> James [not very] Cleverly

Somebody must have wrote that for him.
-- 
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

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