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iCloud or their cloud?

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  iCloud or their cloud? Frederick <fred@ypical.demon.invalid> - 2025-02-17 18:39 +0000
    Re: iCloud or their cloud? TimS <tim@streater.me.uk> - 2025-02-17 18:41 +0000
    Re: iCloud or their cloud? liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2025-02-17 21:30 +0000
      Re: iCloud or their cloud? John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2025-02-18 11:46 +0000
        Re: iCloud or their cloud? Alan B <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> - 2025-02-22 13:52 +0000
      Re: iCloud or their cloud? Frederick <fred@ypical.demon.invalid> - 2025-02-21 18:17 +0000
        Re: iCloud or their cloud? Andy H <thewildrover@icloud.com> - 2025-02-22 07:27 +0000
          Re: iCloud or their cloud? TimS <tim@streater.me.uk> - 2025-02-22 08:03 +0000
            Re: iCloud or their cloud? RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> - 2025-02-22 08:44 +0000
              Re: iCloud or their cloud? Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-02-22 09:04 +0000
                Re: iCloud or their cloud? Chris Ridd <chrisridd@mac.com> - 2025-02-22 18:36 +0000
                  Re: iCloud or their cloud? Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> - 2025-02-22 20:36 +0000
                    Re: iCloud or their cloud? Alan B <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> - 2025-02-22 20:51 +0000
              Re: iCloud or their cloud? Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> - 2025-02-22 09:36 +0000
                Re: iCloud or their cloud? RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> - 2025-02-23 06:23 +0000
              Re: iCloud or their cloud? Alan B <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> - 2025-02-22 10:02 +0000
                Re: iCloud or their cloud? Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> - 2025-02-22 10:28 +0000
                Re: iCloud or their cloud? Andy H <thewildrover@icloud.com> - 2025-02-22 15:43 +0000
            Re: iCloud or their cloud? David Kennedy <davidkennedygm@gmail.com> - 2025-02-23 11:29 +0000
              Re: iCloud or their cloud? Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> - 2025-02-23 12:38 +0000
                Re: iCloud or their cloud? Alan B <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> - 2025-02-23 12:48 +0000
                Re: iCloud or their cloud? TimS <tim@streater.me.uk> - 2025-02-23 13:57 +0000
          Re: iCloud or their cloud? Bruce <07.013@scorecrow.com> - 2025-02-23 01:27 +0000
          Re: iCloud or their cloud? Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2025-02-25 17:56 +0100
            Re: iCloud or their cloud? Chris Ridd <chrisridd@mac.com> - 2025-03-05 05:46 +0000
              Re: iCloud or their cloud? Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2025-03-05 08:14 +0100
              Re: iCloud or their cloud? Mark <captain.black@gmail.com> - 2025-03-05 10:09 +0000
                Re: iCloud or their cloud? Chris Ridd <chrisridd@mac.com> - 2025-03-05 13:13 +0000
                  Re: iCloud or their cloud? liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2025-03-05 13:56 +0000
                  Re: iCloud or their cloud? Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> - 2025-03-05 15:33 +0000
        Re: iCloud or their cloud? nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2025-02-25 14:21 +0100
      Re: iCloud or their cloud? Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2025-02-25 17:48 +0100

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#180437

On 23 Feb 2025 at 12:38:43 GMT, "Graeme Wall" <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk>
wrote:

> On 23/02/2025 11:29, David Kennedy wrote:
>> On 22/02/2025 08:03, TimS wrote:
>>> We knew this Labour Government would be inept ...
>>> We didn't expect them to be this inept ...
>>> We didn't expect them to be this inept, this soon.
>>> 
>>> James Cleverly,  10th Feb 2025
>> 
>> I'm always impressed when anyone can find something good to say about
>> James [not very] Cleverly
> 
> Somebody must have wrote that for him.

He's an unclever dick ;)

-- 
Cheers, Alan

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#180438

On 23 Feb 2025 at 12:38:43 GMT, "Graeme Wall" <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk>
wrote:

> On 23/02/2025 11:29, David Kennedy wrote:
>> On 22/02/2025 08:03, TimS wrote:
>>> We knew this Labour Government would be inept ...
>>> We didn't expect them to be this inept ...
>>> We didn't expect them to be this inept, this soon.
>>> 
>>> James Cleverly,  10th Feb 2025
>> 
>> I'm always impressed when anyone can find something good to say about
>> James [not very] Cleverly
> 
> Somebody must have wrote that for him.

Whether someone did, or not - what he said remains perfectly true. I'm
surprised any of them can still walk, the number of bullets they've put
through their feet.

-- 
Tim

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#180432

On 22/02/2025 07:27, Andy H wrote:
> Frederick <fred@ypical.demon.invalid> wrote:
>> In message <1r7x4ux.ci3spb1ibii6lN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>
>>       liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
>>
>>> Frederick <fred@ypical.demon.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Given current USA politics and the UK government's demands for access,
>>>> is now a good time to remove one's data and cease the use of iCloud?
>>>
>>> I know of other groups, who would have nothing to hide from a reasonable
>>> government, who are now recommending that their members stop using
>>> certain American media sites.
>>
>> Here we go...
>>
>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgj54eq4vejo
> 
> So it’s happened then!
> 
> Now what?
> 
> Well, it’s not actually a feature I had utilised, yet! However, I feel this
> is just the start of a journey down a deep and complex rabbit hole.
> 
> OK, so so the knee jerk reaction is to ditch iCloud and move to another
> cloud service. But surely that’s not going to fix anything. This ruling
> will apply to any cloud service that offers end to end encryption. Wouldn’t
> it? If not, then it just proves that our government has a vendetta against
> Apple as a company. I certainly don’t think trusting in Google or M$ is
> much of a solution either (perhaps the only alternatives that might be able
> to replace the services I currently need).
> 
> I don’t know what the answer is, I have nothing to hide, but I also value
> my privacy and security as an individual. I don’t post photos, or much
> else, on social media platforms anymore - some specialist forums I do use
> from time to time, but my FB usage is very rare, and limited to the
> occasional ‘like’ or comment - I have no other social media accounts.

I think for most people, the issue is a non-issue. People for whom it 
*might* be an issue fall into categories such as: investigative 
journalists wishing to conceal sources, whistleblowers and those 
assisting them, and the like. And also criminals.

Why?

Because your photos and documents in iCloud will still be encrypted, 
will still be secure against hacking by outsiders and will still be 
secure against casual snooping by Apple employees.

You will still be able to securely share them with people you select 
just as at present.

What they won't be - any more - is secure against UK law enforcement 
access ** without your knowledge **.

The "without your knowledge" is the key practical difference: under 
end-to-end encryption, UK law enforcement have to use a RIPA section 49 
notice to require you to disclose your password. And, obviously, you 
would then know that your data is being accessed.

Without end to end encryption in place, they can go direct to Apple with 
a court order and force Apple to decrypt your data. This is possible 
because the standard security deployed by Apple uses encryption in 
transit and at rest, but the keys are held by them.

> I prefer to be selective about what I share with the world, because I am a
> private person. I also have a distrust in the abilities and intentions of
> those in power, and big corporations whose main agenda is to keep their
> coffers full, and share holders happy.
> 
> Of course I appreciate Apple are one of those, but I have to go with
> something, and for my money, and the services I do want to use, I think
> Apple offer the lesser of all the evils out there (based on 30 years as a
> customer).
> 
> I just find it amazing that our thick government have succeeded in removing
> a key reason why people choose a company such as Apple. As far as I’m
> concerned, this is bullshit,  and they obviously have no idea about the
> real world.

It does seem a bit excessive by the government. In 2014-5 (a handy year 
I could quickly find stats for) there were just 37 section 49 notices 
served, and only 3 people were convicted for refusing. So (a) the need 
for decryption powers is low and (b) the powers they already have seem 
to be working well.

> 
> Perhaps I’ll just roll back a few years, and get an Atari ST again, and a
> Nokia 3310 (I actually still have a Nokia 1100 in a drawer somewhere) ;-).
>   


-- 
Bruce Horrocks
Hampshire, England

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#180464

On 22.02.25 08:27, Andy H wrote:
> Frederick <fred@ypical.demon.invalid> wrote:
>> In message <1r7x4ux.ci3spb1ibii6lN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>
>>       liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
>>
>>> Frederick <fred@ypical.demon.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Given current USA politics and the UK government's demands for access,
>>>> is now a good time to remove one's data and cease the use of iCloud?
>>>
>>> I know of other groups, who would have nothing to hide from a reasonable
>>> government, who are now recommending that their members stop using
>>> certain American media sites.
>>
>> Here we go...
>>
>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgj54eq4vejo
> 
> So it’s happened then!
> 
> Now what?
> 
> Well, it’s not actually a feature I had utilised, yet! However, I feel this
> is just the start of a journey down a deep and complex rabbit hole.

I use it outside of the UK since it exists. Appl's reaction is the only 
way they could go.

The alarm bells are ringing extremely loud. It sets a precedent for 
other Gestapo-style governments in the anglosaxon world namely NZ and AU.

> OK, so so the knee jerk reaction is to ditch iCloud and move to another
> cloud service. But surely that’s not going to fix anything. This ruling
> will apply to any cloud service that offers end to end encryption. Wouldn’t
> it? If not, then it just proves that our government has a vendetta against
> Apple as a company. I certainly don’t think trusting in Google or M$ is
> much of a solution either (perhaps the only alternatives that might be able
> to replace the services I currently need).

Even in Switzerland I'm preparing for the worst.


-- 
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

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#180567

On 25/02/2025 16:56, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> I use it outside of the UK since it exists. Appl's reaction is the only 
> way they could go.
> 
> The alarm bells are ringing extremely loud. It sets a precedent for 
> other Gestapo-style governments in the anglosaxon world namely NZ and AU.

It also only takes *one* of the Five Eyes countries to get Apple to 
implement this, and then all the 4 just make an internal request to get 
the data for their Person Of Interest.

I wonder which other services have received the same order. It won't 
just be Apple, though maybe they got the honour of being first, it'll 
realistically be Google, Samsung (assuming they differ from Android), 
maybe MS, and obviously the Signal/Telegram/Whatsapp mobs.

-- 
Chris

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#180568

On 05.03.25 06:46, Chris Ridd wrote:
> On 25/02/2025 16:56, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> I use it outside of the UK since it exists. Appl's reaction is the only 
>> way they could go.
>>
>> The alarm bells are ringing extremely loud. It sets a precedent for 
>> other Gestapo-style governments in the anglosaxon world namely NZ and AU.
> 
> It also only takes *one* of the Five Eyes countries to get Apple to 
> implement this, and then all the 4 just make an internal request to get 
> the data for their Person Of Interest.
> 
> I wonder which other services have received the same order. It won't 
> just be Apple, though maybe they got the honour of being first, it'll 
> realistically be Google, Samsung (assuming they differ from Android), 
> maybe MS, and obviously the Signal/Telegram/Whatsapp mobs.

So far it seems that only Apple is concerned because only Apple is
offering real E2E-encryption for many but not all services (for
technical reasons).

The large messengers seem not affected yet. It would politically
backfire too much. But that can change quickly or they have already a
way to read everything.

The fact that these services are not allowed to communicate any
interference by a government it is not really clear where the taxpayer
and voter stands at the moment. This fact alone is KGB- or Gestapo-style.


-- 
"De gustibus non est disputandum."

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#180571

On 5 Mar 2025 at 5:46:39 am GMT, "Chris Ridd" <chrisridd@mac.com> wrote:

> On 25/02/2025 16:56, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> I use it outside of the UK since it exists. Appl's reaction is the only
>> way they could go.
>> 
>> The alarm bells are ringing extremely loud. It sets a precedent for
>> other Gestapo-style governments in the anglosaxon world namely NZ and AU.
> 
> It also only takes *one* of the Five Eyes countries <snip>

Soon to be Four Eyes.

-- 
Cheers ... Mark

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#180573

On 05/03/2025 10:09, Mark wrote:
> On 5 Mar 2025 at 5:46:39 am GMT, "Chris Ridd" <chrisridd@mac.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 25/02/2025 16:56, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>> I use it outside of the UK since it exists. Appl's reaction is the only
>>> way they could go.
>>>
>>> The alarm bells are ringing extremely loud. It sets a precedent for
>>> other Gestapo-style governments in the anglosaxon world namely NZ and AU.
>>
>> It also only takes *one* of the Five Eyes countries <snip>
> 
> Soon to be Four Eyes.

Maybe. I doubt they'd fully burn down what they've cultivated over 
almost 100 years, whatever is said publicly by a big mouthed orange 
convicted criminal.

-- 
Chris

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#180574

Chris Ridd <chrisridd@mac.com> wrote:

> On 05/03/2025 10:09, Mark wrote:
> > On 5 Mar 2025 at 5:46:39 am GMT, "Chris Ridd" <chrisridd@mac.com> wrote:
> > 
> >> On 25/02/2025 16:56, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> >>> I use it outside of the UK since it exists. Appl's reaction is the only
> >>> way they could go.
> >>>
> >>> The alarm bells are ringing extremely loud. It sets a precedent for
> >>> other Gestapo-style governments in the anglosaxon world namely NZ and AU.
> >>
> >> It also only takes *one* of the Five Eyes countries <snip>
> > 
> > Soon to be Four Eyes.
> 
> Maybe. I doubt they'd fully burn down what they've cultivated over 
> almost 100 years, whatever is said publicly by a big mouthed orange 
> convicted criminal.

...with the mindset of a petulant toddler.  Don't bank on it.


-- 
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

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#180576

On 05/03/2025 13:13, Chris Ridd wrote:
> On 05/03/2025 10:09, Mark wrote:
>> On 5 Mar 2025 at 5:46:39 am GMT, "Chris Ridd" <chrisridd@mac.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 25/02/2025 16:56, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>>> I use it outside of the UK since it exists. Appl's reaction is the only
>>>> way they could go.
>>>>
>>>> The alarm bells are ringing extremely loud. It sets a precedent for
>>>> other Gestapo-style governments in the anglosaxon world namely NZ 
>>>> and AU.
>>>
>>> It also only takes *one* of the Five Eyes countries <snip>
>>
>> Soon to be Four Eyes.
> 
> Maybe. I doubt they'd fully burn down what they've cultivated over 
> almost 100 years, whatever is said publicly by a big mouthed orange 
> convicted criminal.
> 

Unfortunately he is quite likely to do just that, after all he can save 
money that way.

-- 
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

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#180460

Frederick <fred@ypical.demon.invalid> wrote:

> In message <1r7x4ux.ci3spb1ibii6lN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>
>      liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
> 
> > Frederick <fred@ypical.demon.invalid> wrote:
> > 
> > > Given current USA politics and the UK government's demands for access,
> > > is now a good time to remove one's data and cease the use of iCloud?
> > 
> > I know of other groups, who would have nothing to hide from a reasonable
> > government, who are now recommending that their members stop using
> > certain American media sites.
> 
> Here we go...
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgj54eq4vejo

Could you turn it on, when abroad?
(and be like those who already have it?)
That is, until Apple finds a way to turn those off too,

Jan

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#180463

On 17.02.25 22:30, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
> Frederick <fred@ypical.demon.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> Given current USA politics and the UK government's demands for access, is
>> now a good time to remove one's data and cease the use of iCloud?
> 
> I know of other groups, who would have nothing to hide from a reasonable
> government, who are now recommending that their members stop using
> certain American media sites.

I couldn't agree more.


-- 
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

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