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Well, finally made the decision to go iPad

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  Well, finally made the decision to go iPad Andy Hewitt <thewildrover@icloud.com> - 2020-07-20 16:20 +0100
    Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad David_B <DavidB@nomail.afraid.org> - 2020-07-21 08:41 +0100
      Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad bob <email@domain.com> - 2020-07-21 12:01 +0200
        Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad David_B <DavidB@nomail.afraid.org> - 2020-07-21 14:42 +0100
        Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad Andy Hewitt <thewildrover@icloud.com> - 2020-07-21 18:42 +0000
          Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2020-07-21 22:05 +0200
            Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad Andy Hewitt <thewildrover@icloud.com> - 2020-07-22 15:05 +0000
            Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad Mark <captain.black@gmail.com> - 2020-07-22 15:30 +0000
            Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2020-07-23 02:36 +0100
              Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad Bernd Froehlich <befr@eaglesoft.de> - 2020-07-23 07:06 +0000
                Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2020-07-23 17:12 +0200
                  Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2020-07-23 16:42 +0100
                    Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad Bernd Froehlich <befr@eaglesoft.de> - 2020-07-24 07:26 +0000
                      Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad Elliott Roper <nospam@yrl.co.uk> - 2020-07-24 10:35 +0000
                      Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2020-07-24 11:51 +0100
                    Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2020-07-24 09:57 +0200
                      Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2020-07-24 11:53 +0100
                        Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2020-07-24 13:32 +0200
                      Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2020-07-25 02:03 +0100
                        Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2020-07-25 10:15 +0200
                          Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-25 10:13 -0400
                  Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2020-07-24 04:01 +0100
                    Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2020-07-24 09:57 +0200
                      Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2020-07-25 02:20 +0100
                        Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2020-07-25 10:15 +0200
                          Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) - 2020-07-25 10:09 +0000
                            Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2020-07-25 12:19 +0200
                              Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> - 2020-07-25 11:56 +0100
                                Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2020-07-25 13:36 +0200
                                  Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> - 2020-07-25 15:37 +0100
                                    Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2020-07-26 11:54 +0200
                                      Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> - 2020-07-26 11:05 +0100
                                        Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2020-07-26 15:23 +0200
                Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2020-07-24 03:49 +0100
                  Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad Chris Ridd <chrisridd@mac.com> - 2020-07-24 07:03 +0100
                    Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2020-07-25 01:58 +0100
                  Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2020-07-24 09:57 +0200
                    Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> - 2020-07-24 08:17 +0000
                      Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad Ian McCall <ian@eruvia.org> - 2020-07-24 10:39 +0100
                      Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> - 2020-07-24 10:32 +0000
                        Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> - 2020-07-24 10:37 +0000
                        Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2020-07-25 02:37 +0100
                          Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-24 21:55 -0400
                        Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2020-08-04 13:08 +0200
                      Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2020-07-24 13:32 +0200
                    Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2020-07-25 02:23 +0100
    Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> - 2020-07-21 10:25 +0000
      Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> - 2020-07-21 11:41 +0100
      Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad Andy Hewitt <thewildrover@icloud.com> - 2020-07-21 19:09 +0000
        Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> - 2020-07-21 22:17 +0000
          Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad Andy Hewitt <thewildrover@icloud.com> - 2020-07-22 15:19 +0000
            Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> - 2020-07-22 15:53 +0000
              Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad Chris Ridd <chrisridd@mac.com> - 2020-07-22 19:21 +0100
                Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> - 2020-07-22 23:14 +0000
              Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad Andy Hewitt <thewildrover@icloud.com> - 2020-07-22 20:48 +0100
                Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> - 2020-07-22 23:16 +0000
                  Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> - 2020-07-22 23:17 +0000
                    Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad Andy Hewitt <thewildrover@icloud.com> - 2020-07-23 16:02 +0000
                      Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> - 2020-07-23 17:15 +0000
                  Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2020-07-23 02:54 +0100
                    Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-22 22:23 -0400
                    Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-22 22:20 -0400
                      Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad Bernd Froehlich <befr@eaglesoft.de> - 2020-07-23 07:09 +0000
                        Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> - 2020-07-23 08:11 +0100
                        Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-23 10:43 -0400
                          Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2020-07-23 16:07 +0100
                            Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-23 11:35 -0400
                              Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2020-07-23 17:07 +0100
                                Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-23 12:23 -0400
                                  Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2020-07-23 17:40 +0100
                                    Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-23 13:01 -0400
                                      Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2020-07-23 22:54 +0100
                                Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad Andy Hewitt <thewildrover@icloud.com> - 2020-07-23 16:34 +0000
                                  Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-23 13:01 -0400
                                    Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> - 2020-07-23 17:47 +0000
                                      Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-23 14:20 -0400
                                      Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad Andy Hewitt <thewildrover@icloud.com> - 2020-07-23 20:39 +0000
                                        Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-23 16:47 -0400
                Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2020-07-23 02:48 +0100
                  Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-22 22:19 -0400
                  Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> - 2020-07-23 10:13 +0000
                    Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-23 10:43 -0400
                    Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2020-07-24 03:58 +0100
                      Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-23 23:21 -0400
          Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2020-07-23 02:39 +0100
        Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad David Kennedy <davidkennedy@nospamherethankyou.invalid> - 2020-07-29 08:38 +0100
          Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad Andy Hewitt <thewildrover@icloud.com> - 2020-07-29 17:43 +0000
            Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad David Kennedy <davidkennedy@nospamherethankyou.invalid> - 2020-08-02 09:36 +0100
              Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad Andy Hewitt <thewildrover@icloud.com> - 2020-08-02 13:53 +0000
                Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-02 11:44 -0400
                Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad black.hole@jonbradbury.com (Jon B) - 2020-08-03 10:28 +0100
                  Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad Andy Hewitt <thewildrover@icloud.com> - 2020-08-03 17:42 +0000
                    Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-03 13:44 -0400
                    Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> - 2020-08-03 18:03 +0000
                      Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad Andy Hewitt <thewildrover@icloud.com> - 2020-08-03 21:08 +0000
                    Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad black.hole@jonbradbury.com (Jon B) - 2020-08-04 12:48 +0100
                      Re: Well, finally made the decision to go iPad Andy Hewitt <thewildrover@icloud.com> - 2020-08-04 14:53 +0000

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#145749

In article <35rhhfhdpvhjp3n1iumrprga3bfffsjroe@4ax.com>, John
<Man@the.keyboard> wrote:

>  IOS, like MacOS is Unix based. There is no reason why moving files
> between boxes or reading optical disks should be difficult. 

it isn't, and optical discs are dead, not that anyone would want to use
an optical drive on an ios device

>  No reason save Apple management intransigence.
> 
>  iPads, as sold, are broken. 

hundreds of millions of ipad buyers disagree.

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#145750

In article <35rhhfhdpvhjp3n1iumrprga3bfffsjroe@4ax.com>, John
<Man@the.keyboard> wrote:

>  IOS, like MacOS is Unix based. There is no reason why moving files
> between boxes or reading optical disks should be difficult. 

it isn't the least bit difficult and optical discs are dead, not that
anyone would want to use an optical drive on an ios device.

>  No reason save Apple management intransigence.
> 
>  iPads, as sold, are broken. 

hundreds of millions of ipad buyers disagree.

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#145752

On 23. Jul 2020 at 04:20:00 CEST, "nospam" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> and optical discs are dead

Some hundred DVDs on my shelf were looking at me quite shocked when I told
them ;-)

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#145753

On 23/07/2020 08:09, Bernd Froehlich wrote:
> On 23. Jul 2020 at 04:20:00 CEST, "nospam" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> and optical discs are dead
> 
> Some hundred DVDs on my shelf were looking at me quite shocked when I told
> them ;-)
> 
> 

Nospam lives in a little apple-shaped bubble on which the real world 
rarely impinges.

-- 
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

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#145762

In article <hnsrdmFlsd8U2@mid.individual.net>, Bernd Froehlich
<befr@eaglesoft.de> wrote:

> 
> > and optical discs are dead
> 
> Some hundred DVDs on my shelf were looking at me quite shocked when I told
> them ;-)

then they were in denial, just as you are. 

macs no longer ship with an optical drive, nor do many pcs. ios devices
never did.

it's long overdue to migrate to something modern, gaining convenience
and reliability.

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#145764

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> In article <hnsrdmFlsd8U2@mid.individual.net>, Bernd Froehlich
> <befr@eaglesoft.de> wrote:
> 
> > 
> > > and optical discs are dead
> > 
> > Some hundred DVDs on my shelf were looking at me quite
> > shocked when I told them ;-)
> 
> then they were in denial, just as you are. 
> 
> macs no longer ship with an optical drive, nor do many pcs.
> ios devices never did.
> 
> it's long overdue to migrate to something modern, gaining
> convenience and reliability.
> 
 
If iOS devices cannot read CDs then they cannot satisfy all 
of my own personal user case and I must therefore rely on a 
desktop machine to do that.  IMO that's a broken design, 
possibly broken ~by~ design.  
 
It would be cynical to suggest that Apple is more interested 
in supplying media content online at their price rather than 
satisfying my need to play my large collection of CDs (not 
to mention those that I inherited from my dad, none of which 
I have yet ripped); all of which represent a considerable 
monetary investment.  
 
-- 
^Ï^     <https://youtu.be/_kqytf31a8E>

My pet rock Gordon just is.  
 

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#145766

In article <1ou048q.1hr3ggj1ufpz3tN%snipeco.2@gmail.com>, Sn!pe
<snipeco.2@gmail.com> wrote:

>  
> If iOS devices cannot read CDs then they cannot satisfy all 
> of my own personal user case and I must therefore rely on a 
> desktop machine to do that.  IMO that's a broken design, 
> possibly broken ~by~ design.  

maintaining compatibility with obsolete formats is what's broken by
design. 

there's no floppy disk support either, nor is there a phone jack for a
modem. there also aren't any rs232 serial ports or parallel ports, no
scsi ports or adb or ps/2 ports. 

> It would be cynical to suggest that Apple is more interested 
> in supplying media content online at their price rather than 
> satisfying my need to play my large collection of CDs (not 
> to mention those that I inherited from my dad, none of which 
> I have yet ripped); all of which represent a considerable 
> monetary investment.

it would be *incorrect* to suggest that apple is the only source of
content.

in any event, it's time to migrate your cds and dvds to a server.

the advantages of no longer being stuck with physical media are
substantial, including significantly more convenient and being
accessible from any device, and if configured appropriately, not just
at home, but anywhere in the world.

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#145770

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> In article <1ou048q.1hr3ggj1ufpz3tN%snipeco.2@gmail.com>, Sn!pe
> <snipeco.2@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> >  
> > If iOS devices cannot read CDs then they cannot satisfy all 
> > of my own personal user case and I must therefore rely on a 
> > desktop machine to do that.  IMO that's a broken design, 
> > possibly broken ~by~ design.  
> 
> maintaining compatibility with obsolete formats is what's broken by
> design. 
> 
> there's no floppy disk support either, nor is there a phone jack for a
> modem. there also aren't any rs232 serial ports or parallel ports, no
> scsi ports or adb or ps/2 ports. 
> 
> > It would be cynical to suggest that Apple is more interested 
> > in supplying media content online at their price rather than 
> > satisfying my need to play my large collection of CDs (not 
> > to mention those that I inherited from my dad, none of which 
> > I have yet ripped); all of which represent a considerable 
> > monetary investment.
> > 
>
> it would be *incorrect* to suggest that apple is the only source of
> content.

[not disputed]
 
> in any event, it's time to migrate your cds and dvds to a server.
> 
> the advantages of no longer being stuck with physical media are
> substantial, including significantly more convenient and being
> accessible from any device, and if configured appropriately, not just
> at home, but anywhere in the world.
> 
 
As it happens, I'm engaged in that task now; it's very far from 
being non-trivial.  What's more, allowing my music to be put 
up into iCloud results in my full-definition rips being converted 
to a lower bit-rate format.  

Whatever others may say about old mens' hearing, ~I~ can still 
hear the difference and the degradation is not acceptable.  
I suppose that's what comes of being used to analogue music 
on vinyl, which is ~still~ superior to consumer-grade digital.  
 
I think that Apple is letting the side down on this.  
  
-- 
^Ï^     <https://youtu.be/_kqytf31a8E>

My pet rock Gordon just is.  
 

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#145772

In article <1ou06vy.1kqncf9je98ptN%snipeco.2@gmail.com>, Sn!pe
<snipeco.2@gmail.com> wrote:

> > the advantages of no longer being stuck with physical media are
> > substantial, including significantly more convenient and being
> > accessible from any device, and if configured appropriately, not just
> > at home, but anywhere in the world.
> > 
>  
> As it happens, I'm engaged in that task now; it's very far from 
> being non-trivial. 

i think you mean far from being trivial, however, it only needs to be
done once.

> What's more, allowing my music to be put 
> up into iCloud results in my full-definition rips being converted 
> to a lower bit-rate format.  

no.

> Whatever others may say about old mens' hearing, ~I~ can still 
> hear the difference and the degradation is not acceptable.  

then you're doing something wrong.

try using the highest quality settings.

> I suppose that's what comes of being used to analogue music 
> on vinyl, which is ~still~ superior to consumer-grade digital.  

rubbish. worst case, it's identical, best case it's *much* better.

> I think that Apple is letting the side down on this.

they aren't.

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#145774

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> In article <1ou06vy.1kqncf9je98ptN%snipeco.2@gmail.com>, Sn!pe
> <snipeco.2@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > > the advantages of no longer being stuck with physical media are
> > > substantial, including significantly more convenient and being
> > > accessible from any device, and if configured appropriately, not just
> > > at home, but anywhere in the world.
> > > 
> >  
> > As it happens, I'm engaged in that task now; it's very far from 
> > being non-trivial. 
> > 
> 
> i think you mean far from being trivial, however, it only needs to be
> done once.
> 
 
Yes, thanks for the correction.  Pesky double negatives...  
 
> 
> > What's more, allowing my music to be put 
> > up into iCloud results in my full-definition rips being converted 
> > to a lower bit-rate format.  
> > 
> 
> no.
> 

Explain please, your flat denial is not helpful.  
 
> > 
> > Whatever others may say about old mens' hearing, ~I~ can still 
> > hear the difference and the degradation is not acceptable.  
> > 
>
> then you're doing something wrong.
> 
>
> try using the highest quality settings.
>

I rip into Music app using lossless aac.  I don't get that back.  
 
> 
> > I suppose that's what comes of being used to analogue music 
> > on vinyl, which is ~still~ superior to consumer-grade digital.  
> > 
> 
> rubbish. worst case, it's identical, best case it's *much* better.
> 
 
I assert that your assertion is unsupported, as is mine.  Your turn...
 
> > 
> > I think that Apple is letting the side down on this.
> > 
> 
> they aren't.
> 
 
Another unsupported assertion.  
 
Apropos of not much:  your opinions would carry much greater weight 
if you weren't so terse.  Some supporting detail would help  ~a lot.~
 
-- 
^Ï^     <https://youtu.be/_kqytf31a8E>

My pet rock Gordon just is.  
 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#145777

In article <1ou08md.tl42e91rlbhdpN%snipeco.2@gmail.com>, Sn!pe
<snipeco.2@gmail.com> wrote:

> > 
> > > What's more, allowing my music to be put 
> > > up into iCloud results in my full-definition rips being converted 
> > > to a lower bit-rate format.  
> > 
> > no.
> 
> Explain please, your flat denial is not helpful.  

icloud doesn't modify files you upload.

> > > Whatever others may say about old mens' hearing, ~I~ can still 
> > > hear the difference and the degradation is not acceptable.  
> > > 
> >
> > then you're doing something wrong.
> > 
> >
> > try using the highest quality settings.
> 
> I rip into Music app using lossless aac.  I don't get that back.  

aac is not lossless, although there is no audible difference.

alac and flac are lossless, which means what you get back is bit for
bit identical to what went in. 

> > > I suppose that's what comes of being used to analogue music 
> > > on vinyl, which is ~still~ superior to consumer-grade digital.  
> > > 
> > 
> > rubbish. worst case, it's identical, best case it's *much* better.
> > 
>  
> I assert that your assertion is unsupported, as is mine.  Your turn...

it can be mathematically proven that digital audio is better in every
metric than vinyl, which means it can perfectly reproduce everything
vinyl is capable of recording, however, limiting it to vinyl would mean
losing all of its advantages. in the best case, it's much better.

the same is true for digital cameras and film. 

> > > I think that Apple is letting the side down on this.
> > > 
> > 
> > they aren't.
> > 
>  
> Another unsupported assertion.  
>  
> Apropos of not much:  your opinions would carry much greater weight 
> if you weren't so terse.  Some supporting detail would help  ~a lot.~

where's your supporting detail that they're letting the side down?

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#145794

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> In article <1ou08md.tl42e91rlbhdpN%snipeco.2@gmail.com>, Sn!pe
> <snipeco.2@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > > 
> > > > What's more, allowing my music to be put 
> > > > up into iCloud results in my full-definition rips being converted
> > > > to a lower bit-rate format.  
> > > 
> > > no.
> > 
> > Explain please, your flat denial is not helpful.  
> 
> icloud doesn't modify files you upload.
> 
> > > > Whatever others may say about old mens' hearing, ~I~ can still 
> > > > hear the difference and the degradation is not acceptable.  
> > > > 
> > >
> > > then you're doing something wrong.
> > > 
> > >
> > > try using the highest quality settings.
> > 
> > I rip into Music app using lossless aac.  I don't get that back.  
> 
> aac is not lossless, although there is no audible difference.
> 
> alac and flac are lossless, which means what you get back is bit for
> bit identical to what went in. 
> 
 
I may have got that wrong - I do use Apple lossless these days and  
I keep the rips on my NAS now, they don't go anywhere near iCloud 
anymore.  I'm re-ripping my entire CD collection as lossless onto 
the NAS as I now have the space to spare; that way I know exactly 
where I stand.  
  
It was some years ago that I took Apple's suggestion to put my 
iTunes library on iCloud to free up local disk space; it seemed 
like a good idea so I went for it. Those rips will have been at 
various (mostly high) bit-rates, I think.  I also have iTunes 
Match from some years ago, is that relevant?  Anyway, I'm almost 
certain that the stuff that came back down was at 256 kb/s; my 
memory is hazy on that.  
 
I will freely admit that I am thoroughly confused by the changes 
to music in the cloud schemes over the years, to the point where 
I'm no longer sure exactly what scheme I had or now have nor exactly
what it does so I don't trust it.  
 
Put it down to "new technology baffles old fart with finger trouble" 
if you like; that would be fairly accurate. 
 
[remainder snipped]  
 
-- 
^Ï^     <https://youtu.be/_kqytf31a8E>

My pet rock Gordon just is.  
 

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#145773

Sn!pe <snipeco.2@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> 
>> the advantages of no longer being stuck with physical media are
>> substantial, including significantly more convenient and being
>> accessible from any device, and if configured appropriately, not just
>> at home, but anywhere in the world.
>> 
>  
> As it happens, I'm engaged in that task now; it's very far from 
> being non-trivial.  What's more, allowing my music to be put 
> up into iCloud results in my full-definition rips being converted 
> to a lower bit-rate format.  
> 
> Whatever others may say about old mens' hearing, ~I~ can still 
> hear the difference and the degradation is not acceptable.  
> I suppose that's what comes of being used to analogue music 
> on vinyl, which is ~still~ superior to consumer-grade digital.  

Yeah, mine is more suffering from doing discos and PA jobs for about 20
years.

I can’t really tell the difference between CD and AAC or MP3 these days,
but I can hear a significant different with vinyl, and can even tell
different cartridges apart (Ortofons sound awful to me, but a
Pickering/Stanton sounds good, and the green Audio Technica I ended up with
sounds great to me.

>  
> I think that Apple is letting the side down on this.  

From what I’ve found over the last few days, no more than anyone else. All
of the options for uploading any kind of ripped CDs, in any format, have
all but disappeared now, perhaps only Apple still offers any kind of
solution at all.

There may be other options, but probably not for the average home user out
there.

-- 
Andy H

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#145776

In article <rfce6e$va9$1@dont-email.me>, Andy Hewitt
<thewildrover@icloud.com> wrote:

> 
> I can¹t really tell the difference between CD and AAC or MP3 these days,

nobody can, unless the aac/mp3 is crap quality, which is user error.

> but I can hear a significant different with vinyl, 

of course, because vinyl sounds much worse.

> and can even tell
> different cartridges apart (Ortofons sound awful to me, but a
> Pickering/Stanton sounds good, and the green Audio Technica I ended up with
> sounds great to me.

easily remedied with some signal processing.

you can even downgrade a cd to sound like vinyl with an audio technica
cartridge, if you prefer.

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#145783

On 23 Jul 2020 at 18:01:43 BST, "nospam" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> In article <rfce6e$va9$1@dont-email.me>, Andy Hewitt
> <thewildrover@icloud.com> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> I can¹t really tell the difference between CD and AAC or MP3 these days,
> 
> nobody can, unless the aac/mp3 is crap quality, which is user error.
> 
>> but I can hear a significant different with vinyl, 
> 
> of course, because vinyl sounds much worse.

Different. Both are representations of an event. Some prefer vinyl, some
prefer digital. Whether one is better than the other in a quantitative sense
is only part of the discussion - humans don't perceive by numbers.

A possible analogy is a photo and a painting. Which might you prefer to best
represent the reality - the work of your favourite artist, or photographer?

-- 
Cheers, Rob

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#145784

In article <rfciga$191q$1@gioia.aioe.org>, RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com>
wrote:

> >> I can1t really tell the difference between CD and AAC or MP3 these days,
> > 
> > nobody can, unless the aac/mp3 is crap quality, which is user error.
> > 
> >> but I can hear a significant different with vinyl, 
> > 
> > of course, because vinyl sounds much worse.
> 
> Different. Both are representations of an event.

yep, with one being much better than the other, something which can be
objectively measured.

> Some prefer vinyl, some
> prefer digital.

indeed, but i'm not talking about personal preference.

> Whether one is better than the other in a quantitative sense
> is only part of the discussion - humans don't perceive by numbers.

yes they do.

> A possible analogy is a photo and a painting. Which might you prefer to best
> represent the reality - the work of your favourite artist, or photographer?

it's not about preference.

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#145790

RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
> On 23 Jul 2020 at 18:01:43 BST, "nospam" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> In article <rfce6e$va9$1@dont-email.me>, Andy Hewitt
>> <thewildrover@icloud.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> I can¹t really tell the difference between CD and AAC or MP3 these days,
>> 
>> nobody can, unless the aac/mp3 is crap quality, which is user error.
>> 
>>> but I can hear a significant different with vinyl, 
>> 
>> of course, because vinyl sounds much worse.
> 
> Different. Both are representations of an event. Some prefer vinyl, some
> prefer digital. Whether one is better than the other in a quantitative sense
> is only part of the discussion - humans don't perceive by numbers.
> 
> A possible analogy is a photo and a painting. Which might you prefer to best
> represent the reality - the work of your favourite artist, or photographer?

It’s not even that black and white though, as each can have variations of
accurate representation, or artistic representation. A lot can depend on
your mood, or whether you simply like a particular style or ‘look’.

For me, digital is for sure a perfect technical representation of a musical
performance. However, it can often lack ‘character’, and be too clinical.
Not only that, but a lot of audio tracks are heavily compressed, which can
be either/and file and/or audio compression).

It also needs converting from an analogue source (all proper musical
instruments are analogue) to a digital process, and then back to analogue,
as that’s how you hear it. There’s certainly a high chance that certain
parts of the sound are destroyed by the process, albeit probably
imperceptibly to most.

Vinyl, OTOH, is analogue from one end to the other, so no conversion is
needed. In theory, if you have a well recorded source (applies to both
types) a good manufacturing process, and a decent playback system, and a
clean record, there’s no reason why analogue shouldn’t sound better. A few
cracks and pops adds to the character of the experience anyway, IMHO of
course.

I have compared vinyl and digital recordings of the same tracks, and
there’s no doubt for me what I prefer hearing.

But, it’s all down to personal taste in the end, and can all be very much
subjective - yeah I know you can measure it all, and show on a graph that
digital will be better, but that’s not the whole story.

-- 
Andy H

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#145791

In article <rfcsh7$9sj$1@dont-email.me>, Andy Hewitt
<thewildrover@icloud.com> wrote:

> For me, digital is for sure a perfect technical representation of a musical
> performance. However, it can often lack Œcharacter¹, and be too clinical.
> Not only that, but a lot of audio tracks are heavily compressed, which can
> be either/and file and/or audio compression).

compression is not unique to digital, and doing it poorly is user
error, not a flaw with digital or analogue.

> It also needs converting from an analogue source (all proper musical
> instruments are analogue) to a digital process, and then back to analogue,
> as that¹s how you hear it. There¹s certainly a high chance that certain
> parts of the sound are destroyed by the process, albeit probably
> imperceptibly to most.

no chance whatsoever that anything is lost when done correctly. 

it's mathematically provable that the result is *identical* to the
original.

> Vinyl, OTOH, is analogue from one end to the other, so no conversion is
> needed. In theory, if you have a well recorded source (applies to both
> types) a good manufacturing process, and a decent playback system, and a
> clean record, there¹s no reason why analogue shouldn¹t sound better. 

yes there is, namely the limitations of vinyl.

the limitations of digital are beyond human hearing, which means it can
reproduce anything you can hear.

> A few
> cracks and pops adds to the character of the experience anyway, IMHO of
> course.

add that back if you enjoy it.

> I have compared vinyl and digital recordings of the same tracks, and
> there¹s no doubt for me what I prefer hearing.

preference is not the same as objective measurable differences.

> But, it¹s all down to personal taste in the end, and can all be very much
> subjective - yeah I know you can measure it all, and show on a graph that
> digital will be better, but that¹s not the whole story.

yes it is.

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#145746

On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 20:48:40 +0100, Andy Hewitt
<thewildrover@icloud.com> wrote:

>On 22/07/2020 16:53, Jaimie Vandenbergh wrote:
>> On 22 Jul 2020 at 16:19:44 BST, "Andy Hewitt" <thewildrover@icloud.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Or, there’s Google Music, which does allow the upload for free, but I’d
>>> question how long that might last.
>> 
>> Already gone. It's being subsumed into Youtube Music and requires a
>> subscription to listen to your own stuff up in their cloud.
>
>Yeah, found that now, and so has Amazon Music Storage, although I can 
>find reports of it being ceased, it still shows up as an option on my 
>account, with the ability to buy it. There are no options I can see for 
>uploading my music in any of the apps though.
>
>>> Perhaps a Plex solution might do it?
>>>
>> Good thought. Requires an always-on Plex somewhere, and I don't think the
>> client has any caching ability, but should work when you're within 3G or
>> better signal.
>
>Yeah, running out of ideas here. The intention was to go with just iPads 
>and iPods here. I need to clear the desktop computer from the room, and 
>having a permanently connected setup is not likely to be an option we 
>can manage.
>
>The nearest I can come up with is to stick all my music into my iCloud 
>Drive, and find some way to play them from there. VLC does actually work 
>on the iMac and the iPad so far, but it's a bit messy.

 VLC, so far as I can tell, does not play anything with Apple DRM in
it. Movies, TV or music. 

 Which things *have* DRM, I'm not sure of. It seems to change weekly. 
>
>Otherwise, I might be down to turning off all the cloud and home sharing 
>stuff, and simply syncing the collections to the devices manually.
>
>They didn't make this as easy as I'd hoped. It's just the music that's 
>the sticky point at the moment, everything else seems to be well sorted.

 It *should* be as simple as hooking the two boxes together, looking
at the drive on B from the "Finder" on the iPad and sooking up
anything you need. 

 With Apple kit, it never has been and probably never will be. In
their dogmatic zeal to squeeze every penny from every copy of every
file possible, they lockdown *everything*. 

 To someone used to easily copying across Unices and Widows versions,
among other OSes, this is a design flaw of major proportions.

 It's as nuts as getting rid of ports in the demented drive towards
slimness. 

                                                          J. 
 
>
>Cheers.

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#145748

In article <pmqhhf53ogushsev2es06638salio0jg8k@4ax.com>, John
<Man@the.keyboard> wrote:

> >The nearest I can come up with is to stick all my music into my iCloud 
> >Drive, and find some way to play them from there. VLC does actually work 
> >on the iMac and the iPad so far, but it's a bit messy.
> 
>  VLC, so far as I can tell, does not play anything with Apple DRM in
> it. Movies, TV or music. 

of course not. that would defeat the purpose of any drm, no matter
whose it is. fortunately, there's plenty of content without any drm.

>  Which things *have* DRM, I'm not sure of. It seems to change weekly. 

no it doesn't.



>  With Apple kit, it never has been and probably never will be. In
> their dogmatic zeal to squeeze every penny from every copy of every
> file possible, they lockdown *everything*. 

no they don't. 

>  To someone used to easily copying across Unices and Widows versions,
> among other OSes, this is a design flaw of major proportions.

it's very easy to move content among all platforms, including apple, so
easy, in fact, that it doesn't even need human intervention if that's
what's desired.

>  It's as nuts as getting rid of ports in the demented drive towards
> slimness. 

they didn't.

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