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A recipe for an affordable, safe, and scalable flow battery

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  A recipe for an affordable, safe, and scalable flow battery Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-10-31 13:23 -0500
    Re: A recipe for an affordable, safe, and scalable flow battery Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2015-10-31 15:02 -0400
      Re: A recipe for an affordable, safe, and scalable flow battery Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-10-31 14:45 -0500
        Re: A recipe for an affordable, safe, and scalable flow battery Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2015-10-31 16:07 -0400
          Re: A recipe for an affordable, safe, and scalable flow battery Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-10-31 15:12 -0500
            Re: A recipe for an affordable, safe, and scalable flow battery Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2015-10-31 16:28 -0400
              Re: A recipe for an affordable, safe, and scalable flow battery Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-10-31 15:37 -0500
                Re: A recipe for an affordable, safe, and scalable flow battery Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2015-10-31 17:09 -0400
              Re: A recipe for an affordable, safe, and scalable flow battery benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-10-31 17:43 -0400
                Re: A recipe for an affordable, safe, and scalable flow battery Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2015-10-31 18:10 -0400
            Re: A recipe for an affordable, safe, and scalable flow battery jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-10-31 23:57 +0000
        Re: A recipe for an affordable, safe, and scalable flow battery benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-10-31 17:31 -0400
      Re: A recipe for an affordable, safe, and scalable flow battery Lofty Goat <rlwatkins@gmail.com> - 2015-10-31 18:01 -0500
    Re: A recipe for an affordable, safe, and scalable flow battery "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2015-10-31 12:12 -0700
      Re: A recipe for an affordable, safe, and scalable flow battery benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-10-31 17:26 -0400
    Re: A recipe for an affordable, safe, and scalable flow battery jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-10-31 19:06 +0000
    Re: A recipe for an affordable, safe, and scalable flow battery gilber34 <fafa@invalid.com> - 2015-10-31 16:20 -0500

#529454 — A recipe for an affordable, safe, and scalable flow battery

A recipe for an affordable, safe, and scalable flow battery
> http://arstechnica.com/science/2015/10/a-recipe-for-an-affordable-safe-and-scalable-flow-battery/

> Cheap membranes and simple chemicals could store massive amounts of
> electricity.
>
> A recipe for an affordable, safe, and scalable flow battery

> Whether we are willing to admit it or not, we are all rather
> dependent on batteries. We mostly think about small batteries at the
> individual level—in our cell phones, watches, or laptops. But
> batteries can be used in technologies that support multiple people,
> like the hybrid car. As scientists develop batteries with larger
> energy storage capacity, we can begin to expand our outlook to even
> grander applications.
>
> If batteries could be designed to safely store large amounts of
> energy, they could be integrated into the existing power grid. This
> type of integration could be used to store energy harvested from
> renewable sources such as solar and wind, and to smooth out sudden
> surges in demand. Recent advancements in a technology called
> redox-flow batteries (RFB) hold out a promise for scalable energy
> storage.
>
> RFBs are composed of organic materials that are able to transport
> electrons (redox-active). Almost all RFBs are composed of two pools
> of liquid electrolyte separated by a membrane, which allows some ions
> to cross between the two liquids. In these systems, electrons then
> flow from the negatively charged liquid (anolyte) through to the
> positive charged liquid (catholyte). These electrons can either
> charge the system or be extracted for use. Since the key components
> of the batteries are liquid, things can be scaled up simply by making
> the holding tanks larger.
>
> A new, affordable battery platform
>
> In order for this energy storage technology to work, the membrane
> must meet a high list of demands. The corrosive nature of the
> electrolyte requires a membrane with very high chemical stability. To
> commercialize the systems, the membrane needs to be inexpensive. All
> the materials used in the system must also be easy to manufacture on
> a large scale.
>
> The quality of the membrane is also of the utmost importance to the
> RFB performance. It must allow solely for the flow of electrons and
> must retain the active chemicals. This is critical to prevent
> short-circuits and a self-discharge. The high cost of membranes that
> meet these criteria poses a large obstacle to the commercialization
> of many RFBs. One particularly common membrane, Nafion, accounts for
> 40 percent of the cost of an entire cell.
>
> A team of scientists developed a battery system that combines a
> water-based electrolyte with an organic reactive material and a
> low-cost membrane. Their design includes an organic polymer as the
> redox-active species, simple salt (NaCl) as the electrolyte, and a
> regular dialysis membrane (the team used a cellulose-based dialysis
> membrane). These membranes are very inexpensive and are typically
> used at lab-scale to separate polymers


-- 

sci.physics is an unmoderated newsgroup dedicated
to the discussion of physics, news from the physics
community, and physics-related social issues.

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#529466

On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 13:23:28 -0500, Sam Wormley wrote:

>A recipe for an affordable, safe, and scalable flow battery

Oh, Sam ... how *do* you come up with so many interesting topics to
post about?

What would happen to this group if you stopped your daily flood of
"The shiny thing that caught Sam's attention today ..."?

Who else knows how to find this information? Or how to select from the
many items available?

You are an educator, right?

Don't you believe in "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day;
teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime"?

Except for the steaming piles about AGW, you are dropping fish in this
group daily.

But you are not teaching anyone how to fish.

Isn't this an unhealthy dependence on you? Are you trying to protect
this "power" over others?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#529483

On 10/31/15 2:02 PM, Wally W. wrote:
> Don't you believe in "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day;
> teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime"?

   Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a day. Set the
   man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

   Man who wants pretty nurse, must be patient.

   Lady who goes camping must beware of evil intent.

   Man who leaps off cliff jumps to conclusion.

   Man who runs in front of car gets tired... Man who runs behind
   car gets exhausted.

   Man who eats many prunes gets good run for money.

   War does not determine who is right; it determines who is left.

   Man who drives like hell is bound to get there.

   Man who stands on toilet is high on pot.

   Man who passes gas while in church must sit in own pew.


-- 

sci.physics is an unmoderated newsgroup dedicated
to the discussion of physics, news from the physics
community, and physics-related social issues.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#529497

On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 14:45:51 -0500, Sam Wormley wrote:

>On 10/31/15 2:02 PM, Wally W. wrote:
>> Don't you believe in "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day;
>> teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime"?

So do you believe that, or not?

If so, who here are you teaching to fish for the information you
copy-and-paste?


>   Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a day. Set the
>   man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.
>
>   Man who wants pretty nurse, must be patient.
>
>   Lady who goes camping must beware of evil intent.
>
>   Man who leaps off cliff jumps to conclusion.
>
>   Man who runs in front of car gets tired... Man who runs behind
>   car gets exhausted.
>
>   Man who eats many prunes gets good run for money.
>
>   War does not determine who is right; it determines who is left.
>
>   Man who drives like hell is bound to get there.
>
>   Man who stands on toilet is high on pot.
>
>   Man who passes gas while in church must sit in own pew.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#529499

On 10/31/15 3:07 PM, Wally W. wrote:
> So do you believe that, or not?

   I had hoped you wanted to discuss something about flow batteries.
   So I have to admit, I am disappointed.

   A recipe for an affordable, safe, and scalable flow battery
> http://arstechnica.com/science/2015/10/a-recipe-for-an-affordable-safe-and-scalable-flow-battery/

 > Cheap membranes and simple chemicals could store massive amounts of
 > electricity.
 >
 > A recipe for an affordable, safe, and scalable flow battery

 > Whether we are willing to admit it or not, we are all rather
 > dependent on batteries. We mostly think about small batteries at the
 > individual level—in our cell phones, watches, or laptops. But
 > batteries can be used in technologies that support multiple people,
 > like the hybrid car. As scientists develop batteries with larger
 > energy storage capacity, we can begin to expand our outlook to even
 > grander applications.
 >
 > If batteries could be designed to safely store large amounts of
 > energy, they could be integrated into the existing power grid. This
 > type of integration could be used to store energy harvested from
 > renewable sources such as solar and wind, and to smooth out sudden
 > surges in demand. Recent advancements in a technology called
 > redox-flow batteries (RFB) hold out a promise for scalable energy
 > storage.
 >
 > RFBs are composed of organic materials that are able to transport
 > electrons (redox-active). Almost all RFBs are composed of two pools
 > of liquid electrolyte separated by a membrane, which allows some ions
 > to cross between the two liquids. In these systems, electrons then
 > flow from the negatively charged liquid (anolyte) through to the
 > positive charged liquid (catholyte). These electrons can either
 > charge the system or be extracted for use. Since the key components
 > of the batteries are liquid, things can be scaled up simply by making
 > the holding tanks larger.
 >
 > A new, affordable battery platform
 >
 > In order for this energy storage technology to work, the membrane
 > must meet a high list of demands. The corrosive nature of the
 > electrolyte requires a membrane with very high chemical stability. To
 > commercialize the systems, the membrane needs to be inexpensive. All
 > the materials used in the system must also be easy to manufacture on
 > a large scale.
 >
 > The quality of the membrane is also of the utmost importance to the
 > RFB performance. It must allow solely for the flow of electrons and
 > must retain the active chemicals. This is critical to prevent
 > short-circuits and a self-discharge. The high cost of membranes that
 > meet these criteria poses a large obstacle to the commercialization
 > of many RFBs. One particularly common membrane, Nafion, accounts for
 > 40 percent of the cost of an entire cell.
 >
 > A team of scientists developed a battery system that combines a
 > water-based electrolyte with an organic reactive material and a
 > low-cost membrane. Their design includes an organic polymer as the
 > redox-active species, simple salt (NaCl) as the electrolyte, and a
 > regular dialysis membrane (the team used a cellulose-based dialysis
 > membrane). These membranes are very inexpensive and are typically
 > used at lab-scale to separate polymers


-

-- 

sci.physics is an unmoderated newsgroup dedicated
to the discussion of physics, news from the physics
community, and physics-related social issues.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#529510

On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 15:12:03 -0500, Sam Wormley wrote:

>On 10/31/15 3:07 PM, Wally W. wrote:
>> So do you believe that, or not?
>
>   I had hoped you wanted to discuss something about flow batteries.

With whom? With you? Where is *your* discussion?


>   So I have to admit, I am disappointed.

I had hoped an "educator" would be interested in teaching others to
fish instead of perpetuating a dependency.

I am disappointed.

For context from a previous post in this thread:

:What would happen to this group if you stopped your daily flood of "The shiny thing that caught Sam's attention today ..."?

:Who else knows how to find this information? Or how to select from the many items available?

:You are an educator, right?

:Don't you believe in "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime"?

:Except for the steaming piles about AGW, you are dropping fish in this group daily.

:But you are not teaching anyone how to fish.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#529512

On 10/31/15 3:28 PM, Wally W. wrote:
> With whom? With you? Where is*your*  discussion?

   I posted the article to initiate discussion, but you failed to
   comment about the content. Here is what I posted:

   A recipe for an affordable, safe, and scalable flow battery
> http://arstechnica.com/science/2015/10/a-recipe-for-an-affordable-safe-and-scalable-flow-battery/

 > Cheap membranes and simple chemicals could store massive amounts of
 > electricity.
 >
 > A recipe for an affordable, safe, and scalable flow battery

 > Whether we are willing to admit it or not, we are all rather
 > dependent on batteries. We mostly think about small batteries at the
 > individual level—in our cell phones, watches, or laptops. But
 > batteries can be used in technologies that support multiple people,
 > like the hybrid car. As scientists develop batteries with larger
 > energy storage capacity, we can begin to expand our outlook to even
 > grander applications.
 >
 > If batteries could be designed to safely store large amounts of
 > energy, they could be integrated into the existing power grid. This
 > type of integration could be used to store energy harvested from
 > renewable sources such as solar and wind, and to smooth out sudden
 > surges in demand. Recent advancements in a technology called
 > redox-flow batteries (RFB) hold out a promise for scalable energy
 > storage.
 >
 > RFBs are composed of organic materials that are able to transport
 > electrons (redox-active). Almost all RFBs are composed of two pools
 > of liquid electrolyte separated by a membrane, which allows some ions
 > to cross between the two liquids. In these systems, electrons then
 > flow from the negatively charged liquid (anolyte) through to the
 > positive charged liquid (catholyte). These electrons can either
 > charge the system or be extracted for use. Since the key components
 > of the batteries are liquid, things can be scaled up simply by making
 > the holding tanks larger.
 >
 > A new, affordable battery platform
 >
 > In order for this energy storage technology to work, the membrane
 > must meet a high list of demands. The corrosive nature of the
 > electrolyte requires a membrane with very high chemical stability. To
 > commercialize the systems, the membrane needs to be inexpensive. All
 > the materials used in the system must also be easy to manufacture on
 > a large scale.
 >
 > The quality of the membrane is also of the utmost importance to the
 > RFB performance. It must allow solely for the flow of electrons and
 > must retain the active chemicals. This is critical to prevent
 > short-circuits and a self-discharge. The high cost of membranes that
 > meet these criteria poses a large obstacle to the commercialization
 > of many RFBs. One particularly common membrane, Nafion, accounts for
 > 40 percent of the cost of an entire cell.
 >
 > A team of scientists developed a battery system that combines a
 > water-based electrolyte with an organic reactive material and a
 > low-cost membrane. Their design includes an organic polymer as the
 > redox-active species, simple salt (NaCl) as the electrolyte, and a
 > regular dialysis membrane (the team used a cellulose-based dialysis
 > membrane). These membranes are very inexpensive and are typically
 > used at lab-scale to separate polymers





-- 

sci.physics is an unmoderated newsgroup dedicated
to the discussion of physics, news from the physics
community, and physics-related social issues.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#529520

On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 15:37:58 -0500, Sam Wormley wrote:

>On 10/31/15 3:28 PM, Wally W. wrote:
>> With whom? With you? Where is*your*  discussion?
>
>   I posted the article to initiate discussion, 

Your post contained no discussion from you.

So you did not "initiate" a discussion. You trolled.

Are you claiming to be clueless about the distinction?

> but you failed to
>   comment about the content. Here is what I posted:

I saw what you posted.

You didn't answer my question:

>> Don't you believe in "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day;
>> teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime"?

If so, who here are you teaching to fish for the information you
copy-and-paste?

I had hoped an "educator" would be interested in teaching others to
fish instead of perpetuating a dependency.


For context from a previous post in this thread:

:What would happen to this group if you stopped your daily flood of "The shiny thing that caught Sam's attention today ..."?

:Who else knows how to find this information? Or how to select from the many items available?

:You are an educator, right?

:Don't you believe in "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime"?

:Except for the steaming piles about AGW, you are dropping fish in this group daily.

:But you are not teaching anyone how to fish.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#529541

On 10/31/2015 04:28 PM, Wally W. wrote:
> On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 15:12:03 -0500, Sam Wormley wrote:
>
>> On 10/31/15 3:07 PM, Wally W. wrote:
>>> So do you believe that, or not?
>>
>>    I had hoped you wanted to discuss something about flow batteries.
>
> With whom? With you? Where is *your* discussion?
>
>
>>    So I have to admit, I am disappointed.
>
> I had hoped an "educator" would be interested in teaching others to
> fish instead of perpetuating a dependency.
>
> I am disappointed.
>
> For context from a previous post in this thread:
>
> :What would happen to this group if you stopped your daily flood of "The shiny thing that caught Sam's attention today ..."?
>
> :Who else knows how to find this information? Or how to select from the many items available?
>
> :You are an educator, right?
>
> :Don't you believe in "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime"?
>
> :Except for the steaming piles about AGW, you are dropping fish in this group daily.
>
> :But you are not teaching anyone how to fish.

Of course Sam is not teaching anyone to fish. To teach others how to 
fish you must first know how to fish yourself. Get the picture?



-- 

       ___           ___           ___            ___
      /\  \         /\  \         /\__\          /\  \
     /::\  \       /::\  \       /::|  |         \:\  \
    /:/\:\  \     /:/\:\  \     /:|:|  |     ___ /::\__\
   /::\~\:\__\   /::\~\:\  \   /:/|:|  |__  /\  /:/\/__/
  /:/\:\ \:|__| /:/\:\ \:\__\ /:/ |:| /\__\ \:\/:/  /
  \:\~\:\/:/  / \:\~\:\ \/__/ \/__|:|/:/  /  \::/  /
   \:\ \::/  /   \:\ \:\__\       |:/:/  /    \/__/
    \:\/:/  /     \:\ \/__/       |::/  /
     \::/__/       \:\__\         /:/  /
      ~~            \/__/         \/__/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#529545

On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 17:43:15 -0400, benj wrote:

>On 10/31/2015 04:28 PM, Wally W. wrote:
>> On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 15:12:03 -0500, Sam Wormley wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/31/15 3:07 PM, Wally W. wrote:
>>>> So do you believe that, or not?
>>>
>>>    I had hoped you wanted to discuss something about flow batteries.
>>
>> With whom? With you? Where is *your* discussion?
>>
>>
>>>    So I have to admit, I am disappointed.
>>
>> I had hoped an "educator" would be interested in teaching others to
>> fish instead of perpetuating a dependency.
>>
>> I am disappointed.
>>
>> For context from a previous post in this thread:
>>
>> :What would happen to this group if you stopped your daily flood of "The shiny thing that caught Sam's attention today ..."?
>>
>> :Who else knows how to find this information? Or how to select from the many items available?
>>
>> :You are an educator, right?
>>
>> :Don't you believe in "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime"?
>>
>> :Except for the steaming piles about AGW, you are dropping fish in this group daily.
>>
>> :But you are not teaching anyone how to fish.
>
>Of course Sam is not teaching anyone to fish. To teach others how to 
>fish you must first know how to fish yourself. Get the picture?

He seems to know how to copy and paste to create new posts.

The question is how does he select what to post, and why won't he
teach others how to make similar selections?

Perhaps he only *seems* to know how to make the selections.

Someone else might wonder whether they are printed on a list of
talking points that comes with a check. Could talking points come with
an array of physics items to intersperse with AGW hysteria? How much
non-AGW fluff would they think it takes to disguise an activist
astroturfer?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#529574

Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/31/15 3:07 PM, Wally W. wrote:
>> So do you believe that, or not?
> 
>   I had hoped you wanted to discuss something about flow batteries.
>   So I have to admit, I am disappointed.

You keep cut and pasting crap that gets no discussion other than someone
saying your post is crap and you are disappointed?

It should have been expected, spamming shit head.


-- 
Jim Pennino

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#529533

On 10/31/2015 03:45 PM, Sam Wormley wrote:
> On 10/31/15 2:02 PM, Wally W. wrote:
>> Don't you believe in "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day;
>> teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime"?
>
>    Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a day. Set the
>    man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.
>
>    Man who wants pretty nurse, must be patient.
>
>    Lady who goes camping must beware of evil intent.
>
>    Man who leaps off cliff jumps to conclusion.
>
>    Man who runs in front of car gets tired... Man who runs behind
>    car gets exhausted.
>
>    Man who eats many prunes gets good run for money.
>
>    War does not determine who is right; it determines who is left.
>
>    Man who drives like hell is bound to get there.
>
>    Man who stands on toilet is high on pot.
>
>    Man who passes gas while in church must sit in own pew.

Oh my! Now not only Herb, but Sam is going into second childhood!



-- 

       ___           ___           ___            ___
      /\  \         /\  \         /\__\          /\  \
     /::\  \       /::\  \       /::|  |         \:\  \
    /:/\:\  \     /:/\:\  \     /:|:|  |     ___ /::\__\
   /::\~\:\__\   /::\~\:\  \   /:/|:|  |__  /\  /:/\/__/
  /:/\:\ \:|__| /:/\:\ \:\__\ /:/ |:| /\__\ \:\/:/  /
  \:\~\:\/:/  / \:\~\:\ \/__/ \/__|:|/:/  /  \::/  /
   \:\ \::/  /   \:\ \:\__\       |:/:/  /    \/__/
    \:\/:/  /     \:\ \/__/       |::/  /
     \::/__/       \:\__\         /:/  /
      ~~            \/__/         \/__/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#529551

On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 15:02:31 -0400, Wally W. wrote:

> What would happen to this group if you stopped your daily flood of "The
> shiny thing that caught Sam's attention today ..."?

It'd probably die beneath the dead weight of trolls and crackpots.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#529470

On Saturday, October 31, 2015 at 11:23:33 AM UTC-7, Sam Wormley wrote:
> A recipe for an affordable, safe, and scalable flow battery
> > http://arstechnica.com/science/2015/10/a-recipe-for-an-affordable-safe-and-scalable-flow-battery/
> 
> > Cheap membranes and simple chemicals could store massive amounts of
> > electricity.
> >
> > A recipe for an affordable, safe, and scalable flow battery
> 
> > Whether we are willing to admit it or not, we are all rather
> > dependent on batteries. We mostly think about small batteries at the
> > individual level--in our cell phones, watches, or laptops. But
> > batteries can be used in technologies that support multiple people,
> > like the hybrid car. As scientists develop batteries with larger
> > energy storage capacity, we can begin to expand our outlook to even
> > grander applications.
> >
> > If batteries could be designed to safely store large amounts of
> > energy, they could be integrated into the existing power grid. This
> > type of integration could be used to store energy harvested from
> > renewable sources such as solar and wind, and to smooth out sudden
> > surges in demand. Recent advancements in a technology called
> > redox-flow batteries (RFB) hold out a promise for scalable energy
> > storage.
> >
> > RFBs are composed of organic materials that are able to transport
> > electrons (redox-active). Almost all RFBs are composed of two pools
> > of liquid electrolyte separated by a membrane, which allows some ions
> > to cross between the two liquids. In these systems, electrons then
> > flow from the negatively charged liquid (anolyte) through to the
> > positive charged liquid (catholyte). These electrons can either
> > charge the system or be extracted for use. Since the key components
> > of the batteries are liquid, things can be scaled up simply by making
> > the holding tanks larger.
> >
> > A new, affordable battery platform
> >
> > In order for this energy storage technology to work, the membrane
> > must meet a high list of demands. The corrosive nature of the
> > electrolyte requires a membrane with very high chemical stability. To
> > commercialize the systems, the membrane needs to be inexpensive. All
> > the materials used in the system must also be easy to manufacture on
> > a large scale.
> >
> > The quality of the membrane is also of the utmost importance to the
> > RFB performance. It must allow solely for the flow of electrons and
> > must retain the active chemicals. This is critical to prevent
> > short-circuits and a self-discharge. The high cost of membranes that
> > meet these criteria poses a large obstacle to the commercialization
> > of many RFBs. One particularly common membrane, Nafion, accounts for
> > 40 percent of the cost of an entire cell.
> >
> > A team of scientists developed a battery system that combines a
> > water-based electrolyte with an organic reactive material and a
> > low-cost membrane. Their design includes an organic polymer as the
> > redox-active species, simple salt (NaCl) as the electrolyte, and a
> > regular dialysis membrane (the team used a cellulose-based dialysis
> > membrane). These membranes are very inexpensive and are typically
> > used at lab-scale to separate polymers
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> sci.physics is an unmoderated newsgroup dedicated
> to the discussion of physics, news from the physics
> community, and physics-related social issues.

I have invented a battery that has a built in solar charger.It only needs photons night anbd day and it works. TreBert

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#529531

On 10/31/2015 03:12 PM, reber g=emc^2 wrote:
> On Saturday, October 31, 2015 at 11:23:33 AM UTC-7, Sam Wormley wrote:
>> A recipe for an affordable, safe, and scalable flow battery
>>> http://arstechnica.com/science/2015/10/a-recipe-for-an-affordable-safe-and-scalable-flow-battery/
>>
>>> Cheap membranes and simple chemicals could store massive amounts of
>>> electricity.
>>>
>>> A recipe for an affordable, safe, and scalable flow battery
>>
>>> Whether we are willing to admit it or not, we are all rather
>>> dependent on batteries. We mostly think about small batteries at the
>>> individual level--in our cell phones, watches, or laptops. But
>>> batteries can be used in technologies that support multiple people,
>>> like the hybrid car. As scientists develop batteries with larger
>>> energy storage capacity, we can begin to expand our outlook to even
>>> grander applications.
>>>
>>> If batteries could be designed to safely store large amounts of
>>> energy, they could be integrated into the existing power grid. This
>>> type of integration could be used to store energy harvested from
>>> renewable sources such as solar and wind, and to smooth out sudden
>>> surges in demand. Recent advancements in a technology called
>>> redox-flow batteries (RFB) hold out a promise for scalable energy
>>> storage.
>>>
>>> RFBs are composed of organic materials that are able to transport
>>> electrons (redox-active). Almost all RFBs are composed of two pools
>>> of liquid electrolyte separated by a membrane, which allows some ions
>>> to cross between the two liquids. In these systems, electrons then
>>> flow from the negatively charged liquid (anolyte) through to the
>>> positive charged liquid (catholyte). These electrons can either
>>> charge the system or be extracted for use. Since the key components
>>> of the batteries are liquid, things can be scaled up simply by making
>>> the holding tanks larger.
>>>
>>> A new, affordable battery platform
>>>
>>> In order for this energy storage technology to work, the membrane
>>> must meet a high list of demands. The corrosive nature of the
>>> electrolyte requires a membrane with very high chemical stability. To
>>> commercialize the systems, the membrane needs to be inexpensive. All
>>> the materials used in the system must also be easy to manufacture on
>>> a large scale.
>>>
>>> The quality of the membrane is also of the utmost importance to the
>>> RFB performance. It must allow solely for the flow of electrons and
>>> must retain the active chemicals. This is critical to prevent
>>> short-circuits and a self-discharge. The high cost of membranes that
>>> meet these criteria poses a large obstacle to the commercialization
>>> of many RFBs. One particularly common membrane, Nafion, accounts for
>>> 40 percent of the cost of an entire cell.
>>>
>>> A team of scientists developed a battery system that combines a
>>> water-based electrolyte with an organic reactive material and a
>>> low-cost membrane. Their design includes an organic polymer as the
>>> redox-active species, simple salt (NaCl) as the electrolyte, and a
>>> regular dialysis membrane (the team used a cellulose-based dialysis
>>> membrane). These membranes are very inexpensive and are typically
>>> used at lab-scale to separate polymers
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> sci.physics is an unmoderated newsgroup dedicated
>> to the discussion of physics, news from the physics
>> community, and physics-related social issues.
>
> I have invented a battery that has a built in solar charger.It only needs photons night anbd day and it works. TreBert
>
Herb you have invented nothing. You know how nothing works. Go build a 
deck for someone. I think you know how a hammer and nails work.

-- 

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     /::\  \       /::\  \       /::|  |         \:\  \
    /:/\:\  \     /:/\:\  \     /:|:|  |     ___ /::\__\
   /::\~\:\__\   /::\~\:\  \   /:/|:|  |__  /\  /:/\/__/
  /:/\:\ \:|__| /:/\:\ \:\__\ /:/ |:| /\__\ \:\/:/  /
  \:\~\:\/:/  / \:\~\:\ \/__/ \/__|:|/:/  /  \::/  /
   \:\ \::/  /   \:\ \:\__\       |:/:/  /    \/__/
    \:\/:/  /     \:\ \/__/       |::/  /
     \::/__/       \:\__\         /:/  /
      ~~            \/__/         \/__/

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#529473

Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> wrote:
> A recipe for an affordable, safe, and scalable flow battery
>> http://arstechnica.com/science/2015/10/a-recipe-for-an-affordable-safe-and-scalable-flow-battery/
> 
>> Cheap membranes and simple chemicals could store massive amounts of
>> electricity.
>>
>> A recipe for an affordable, safe, and scalable flow battery
> 
>> Whether we are willing to admit it or not, we are all rather
>> dependent on batteries. We mostly think about small batteries at the
>> individual level?in our cell phones, watches, or laptops. But
>> batteries can be used in technologies that support multiple people,
>> like the hybrid car. As scientists develop batteries with larger
>> energy storage capacity, we can begin to expand our outlook to even
>> grander applications.
>>
>> If batteries could be designed to safely store large amounts of
>> energy, they could be integrated into the existing power grid. This
>> type of integration could be used to store energy harvested from
>> renewable sources such as solar and wind, and to smooth out sudden
>> surges in demand. Recent advancements in a technology called
>> redox-flow batteries (RFB) hold out a promise for scalable energy
>> storage.
>>
>> RFBs are composed of organic materials that are able to transport
>> electrons (redox-active). Almost all RFBs are composed of two pools
>> of liquid electrolyte separated by a membrane, which allows some ions
>> to cross between the two liquids. In these systems, electrons then
>> flow from the negatively charged liquid (anolyte) through to the
>> positive charged liquid (catholyte). These electrons can either
>> charge the system or be extracted for use. Since the key components
>> of the batteries are liquid, things can be scaled up simply by making
>> the holding tanks larger.
>>
>> A new, affordable battery platform
>>
>> In order for this energy storage technology to work, the membrane
>> must meet a high list of demands. The corrosive nature of the
>> electrolyte requires a membrane with very high chemical stability. To
>> commercialize the systems, the membrane needs to be inexpensive. All
>> the materials used in the system must also be easy to manufacture on
>> a large scale.
>>
>> The quality of the membrane is also of the utmost importance to the
>> RFB performance. It must allow solely for the flow of electrons and
>> must retain the active chemicals. This is critical to prevent
>> short-circuits and a self-discharge. The high cost of membranes that
>> meet these criteria poses a large obstacle to the commercialization
>> of many RFBs. One particularly common membrane, Nafion, accounts for
>> 40 percent of the cost of an entire cell.
>>
>> A team of scientists developed a battery system that combines a
>> water-based electrolyte with an organic reactive material and a
>> low-cost membrane. Their design includes an organic polymer as the
>> redox-active species, simple salt (NaCl) as the electrolyte, and a
>> regular dialysis membrane (the team used a cellulose-based dialysis
>> membrane). These membranes are very inexpensive and are typically
>> used at lab-scale to separate polymers

Yet another pie-in-the-sky flow battery, spamming shit head?

Or is this just yet another article about the flow battery you cut
and pasted a few days ago spamming shit head?

 
 

-- 
Jim Pennino

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#529526

On 10/31/2015 1:23 PM, Sam Wormley wrote:
> A recipe for an affordable, safe, and scalable flow battery

>
>> Cheap membranes and simple chemicals could store massive amounts of
>> electricity.
>>

this is mentioned to support "the grid", if so, just pump the water back 
uphill, and forget this expensive technology.

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