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Groups > sci.physics > #721650 > unrolled thread
| Started by | john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2018-12-30 17:36 -0800 |
| Last post | 2019-01-09 21:35 -0800 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 194 — 20 participants |
Back to article view | Back to sci.physics
Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-12-30 17:36 -0800
Re: Push Gravity moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-12-31 01:45 +0000
Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-12-30 18:02 -0800
Re: Push Gravity moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-12-31 02:37 +0000
Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-12-30 19:28 -0800
Re: Push Gravity Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-12-30 22:09 -0600
Re: Push Gravity Paul Dakota <jsf@iaswmh.nb> - 2018-12-31 07:14 +0000
Re: Push Gravity Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-12-31 09:48 -0600
Re: Push Gravity moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-12-31 04:57 +0000
Re: Push Gravity poraty6@gmail.com - 2018-12-30 23:19 -0800
Re: Push Gravity poraty6@gmail.com - 2018-12-30 23:23 -0800
Re: Push Gravity Paul Dakota <jsf@iaswmh.nb> - 2018-12-31 07:34 +0000
Re: Push Gravity poraty6@gmail.com - 2018-12-31 00:26 -0800
Re: Push Gravity James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2018-12-31 00:31 -0800
Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-12-31 03:20 -0800
Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-12-31 04:40 -0800
Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-12-31 05:06 -0800
Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-31 14:30 +0000
Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-12-31 08:42 -0800
Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-12-31 09:27 -0800
Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-31 18:07 +0000
Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-12-31 10:19 -0800
Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-12-31 10:25 -0800
Re: Push Gravity Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-12-31 12:53 -0600
Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-31 19:29 +0000
Re: Push Gravity Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2019-01-02 14:08 -0800
Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2019-01-02 14:26 -0800
Re: Push Gravity Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2019-01-02 14:44 -0800
Re: Push Gravity benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2019-01-02 19:15 -0500
Re: Push Gravity Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2019-01-02 18:36 -0800
Re: Push Gravity Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2019-01-02 22:54 -0600
Re: Push Gravity Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2019-01-03 11:23 -0800
Re: Push Gravity poraty6@gmail.com - 2019-01-03 14:53 -0800
Re: Push Gravity Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2019-01-03 21:40 -0800
Re: Push Gravity poraty6@gmail.com - 2019-01-03 22:49 -0800
Re: Push Gravity Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2019-01-04 12:53 -0800
Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2019-01-05 09:23 -0800
Re: Push Gravity moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2019-01-05 18:23 +0000
Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2019-01-05 11:04 -0800
Re: Push Gravity moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2019-01-05 19:59 +0000
Re: Push Gravity Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 10:26 -0800
Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2019-01-05 11:27 -0800
Re: Push Gravity moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2019-01-05 20:18 +0000
Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2019-01-05 12:45 -0800
Re: Push Gravity poraty6@gmail.com - 2019-01-05 11:30 -0800
Re: Push Gravity Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2019-01-05 13:20 -0800
Re: Push Gravity benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2019-01-05 18:30 -0500
Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2019-01-05 16:23 -0800
Re: Push Gravity pnalsing@gmail.com - 2019-01-05 17:47 -0800
Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2019-01-05 18:47 -0800
Re: Push Gravity Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2019-01-05 23:08 -0600
Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2019-01-05 21:19 -0800
Re: Push Gravity pnalsing@gmail.com - 2019-01-05 21:01 -0800
Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2019-01-05 21:56 -0800
Re: Push Gravity pnalsing@gmail.com - 2019-01-05 22:37 -0800
Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 06:31 -0800
Re: Push Gravity moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2019-01-06 16:54 +0000
Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 09:30 -0800
Re: Push Gravity moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2019-01-06 18:27 +0000
Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 21:30 +0000
Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 13:38 -0800
Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 13:45 -0800
Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 13:53 -0800
Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 14:04 -0800
Re: Push Gravity moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2019-01-07 00:46 +0000
Re: Push Gravity pnalsing@gmail.com - 2019-01-06 14:05 -0800
Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 22:16 +0000
Re: Push Gravity moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2019-01-07 00:44 +0000
Re: Push Gravity Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2019-01-07 02:53 +0100
Re: Push Gravity moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2019-01-07 02:11 +0000
Re: Push Gravity Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2019-01-07 03:57 +0100
Re: Push Gravity moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2019-01-08 15:55 +0000
Re: Push Gravity Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2019-01-09 01:49 +0100
Re: Push Gravity moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2019-01-09 04:48 +0000
Re: Push Gravity Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2019-01-09 15:27 +0100
Re: Push Gravity Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2019-01-07 02:47 +0100
Re: Push Gravity Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2019-01-07 10:58 -0600
Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 22:16 +0000
Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 16:21 -0800
Re: Push Gravity moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2019-01-07 00:38 +0000
Re: Push Gravity Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2019-01-07 02:54 +0100
Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 22:16 +0000
Re: Push Gravity moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2019-01-07 00:35 +0000
Re: Push Gravity moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2019-01-07 00:51 +0000
Re: Push Gravity Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2019-01-07 03:02 +0100
Re: Push Gravity benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2019-01-08 15:04 -0500
Re: Push Gravity poraty6@gmail.com - 2019-01-07 01:34 -0800
Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2019-01-08 03:07 -0800
Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2019-01-08 04:26 -0800
Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-08 14:31 +0000
Re: Push Gravity "reber G=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2019-01-08 11:55 -0800
Re: Push Gravity moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2019-01-08 15:32 +0000
Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2019-01-08 04:32 -0800
Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-08 14:31 +0000
Re: Push Gravity moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2019-01-08 15:37 +0000
Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2019-01-08 13:21 -0800
Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-08 14:31 +0000
Re: Push Gravity moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2019-01-08 15:30 +0000
Re: Push Gravity benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2019-01-08 15:02 -0500
Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-08 23:00 +0000
Re: Push Gravity benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2019-01-08 23:36 -0500
Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-09 14:45 +0000
Re: Push Gravity benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2019-01-09 15:43 -0500
Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2019-01-09 12:52 -0800
Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-09 21:39 +0000
Re: Push Gravity benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2019-01-09 19:18 -0500
Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-10 01:27 +0000
Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2019-01-09 17:50 -0800
Re: Push Gravity poraty6@gmail.com - 2019-01-09 18:38 -0800
Re: Push Gravity poraty6@gmail.com - 2019-01-09 18:27 -0800
Re: Push Gravity pnalsing@gmail.com - 2019-01-06 11:11 -0800
Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 21:07 +0000
Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 21:07 +0000
Re: Push Gravity Arindam Banerjee <banerjeeadda1234@gmail.com> - 2019-01-05 20:52 -0800
Re: Push Gravity poraty6@gmail.com - 2019-01-06 04:55 -0800
Re: Push Gravity Arindam Banerjee <banerjeeadda1234@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 05:12 -0800
Re: Push Gravity Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2019-01-06 10:34 -0600
Re: Push Gravity "reber G=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 12:39 -0800
Re: Push Gravity Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2019-01-07 09:31 -0600
Re: Push Gravity poraty6@gmail.com - 2019-01-08 05:00 -0800
Re: Push Gravity Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 10:57 -0800
Re: Push Gravity Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 10:30 -0800
Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 21:07 +0000
Re: Push Gravity benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2019-01-08 14:54 -0500
Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-08 23:00 +0000
Re: Push Gravity benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2019-01-08 23:33 -0500
Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-09 14:45 +0000
Re: Push Gravity benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2019-01-09 15:42 -0500
Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-31 19:29 +0000
Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-12-31 12:05 -0800
Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-31 20:50 +0000
Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-12-31 13:13 -0800
Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-31 21:48 +0000
Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-12-31 14:01 -0800
Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-31 22:11 +0000
Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-12-31 14:17 -0800
Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-31 22:31 +0000
Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-12-31 14:50 -0800
Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-01 00:00 +0000
Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-12-31 16:13 -0800
Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-01 01:47 +0000
Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-12-31 18:00 -0800
Re: Push Gravity moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2019-01-01 13:36 +0000
Re: Push Gravity poraty6@gmail.com - 2019-01-04 02:33 -0800
Re: Push Gravity moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2019-01-04 16:26 +0000
Re: Push Gravity poraty6@gmail.com - 2019-01-04 08:47 -0800
Re: Push Gravity benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-12-31 22:28 -0500
Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-12-31 19:51 -0800
Re: Push Gravity turcaudjp@gmail.com - 2019-01-01 02:13 -0800
Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-01 16:33 +0000
Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-01 16:33 +0000
Re: Push Gravity poraty6@gmail.com - 2019-01-02 15:12 -0800
Re: Push Gravity poraty6@gmail.com - 2019-01-02 15:09 -0800
Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-02 23:24 +0000
Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2019-01-02 15:45 -0800
Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-02 23:54 +0000
Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2019-01-02 15:57 -0800
Re: Push Gravity benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2019-01-02 19:23 -0500
Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-03 02:44 +0000
I've been slandering UseNutters for 28 years now. Jeff-Relf.Me @. - 2019-01-02 16:19 -0800
Re: I've been slandering UseNutters for 28 years now. "Sir Gregory Hall, Esq." <greghall@yacht_maester.fake> - 2019-01-02 19:27 -0500
Re: I've been slandering UseNutters for 28 years now. % <persent@gmail.com> - 2019-01-02 17:30 -0700
Re: I've been slandering UseNutters for 28 years now. % <persent@gmail.com> - 2019-01-02 17:30 -0700
PeeScent's fifth grade education. Jeff-Relf.Me @. - 2019-01-02 16:39 -0800
Re: PeeScent's fifth grade education. Jeff-Relf.Me@ - 2019-01-02 17:43 -0700
Re: PeeScent's fifth grade education. "Sir Gregory Hall, Esq." <greghall@yacht_maester.fake> - 2019-01-02 19:53 -0500
Re: PeeScent's fifth grade education. Jeff-Relf.Me@ - 2019-01-02 17:59 -0700
Re: PeeScent is homeless, I assume. Jeff-Relf.Me@ - 2019-01-03 07:13 -0700
Re: PeeScent's fifth grade education. "Sir Gregory Hall, Esq." <greghall@yacht_maester.fake> - 2019-01-02 19:47 -0500
Re: PeeScent's fifth grade education. % <persent@gmail.com> - 2019-01-02 17:51 -0700
Re: Push Gravity benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2019-01-02 19:22 -0500
Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-03 02:44 +0000
Re: Push Gravity poraty6@gmail.com - 2019-01-02 23:49 -0800
Re: Push Gravity poraty6@gmail.com - 2019-01-03 02:47 -0800
Re: Push Gravity poraty6@gmail.com - 2019-01-03 02:53 -0800
Re: Push Gravity Arther Jackson <invalid@example.com> - 2019-01-04 15:10 -0800
Re: Push Gravity % <persent@gmail.com> - 2019-01-04 16:12 -0700
Re: Push Gravity benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2019-01-04 19:41 -0500
Re: Push Gravity poraty6@gmail.com - 2019-01-04 23:17 -0800
Re: Push Gravity benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2019-01-02 19:17 -0500
Re: Push Gravity "reber G=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2019-01-03 14:41 -0800
Re: Push Gravity Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2019-01-06 10:35 -0600
Re: Push Gravity poraty6@gmail.com - 2019-01-02 23:45 -0800
Re: Push Gravity poraty6@gmail.com - 2019-01-01 02:19 -0800
Re: Push Gravity poraty6@gmail.com - 2018-12-31 01:59 -0800
Re: Push Gravity poraty6@gmail.com - 2018-12-31 02:15 -0800
Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-31 14:14 +0000
Re: Push Gravity "reber G=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2018-12-31 09:57 -0800
Re: Push Gravity mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-12-31 14:08 -0800
Re: Push Gravity "reber G=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2019-01-03 14:42 -0800
Push Gravity Arindam Banerjee <banerjeeadda1234@gmail.com> - 2019-01-09 19:53 -0800
Re: Push Gravity pnalsing@gmail.com - 2019-01-09 20:49 -0800
Re: Push Gravity Arindam Banerjee <banerjeeadda1234@gmail.com> - 2019-01-09 21:03 -0800
Re: Push Gravity pnalsing@gmail.com - 2019-01-09 21:35 -0800
Page 4 of 10 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 … 10 Next page →
| From | john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-06 13:38 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <cf00e599-a281-41a5-aa7e-0d06904faa5c@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #722387 |
Odd “ (In fact a helium balloon on the moon would fall to the ground as quickly as a dropped hammer.)” You think? They need to try that and see if you are right. I don’t think you are. What makes you say that? I’m interested
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-06 13:45 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <65d6c84f-424e-455e-b2b7-f8d089689e2b@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #722390 |
Odd “ What makes you say that? I’m interested ” Never mind. Looked it up. So- what if they find NO Helium on the moon?
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-06 13:53 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <2ef75593-8adf-40be-880c-e0cd77b9d5e1@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #722396 |
Odd I’ll tell you why that surprises me. You see- my latest thinking on Gravity is that Helium and Hydrogen will escape from all planets beneath a certain size- that size where incoming PUSH of gravitational force equals outgoing PUSH of gravitational force. The Earth and the Moon are too small to attract Helium and Hydrogen.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-06 14:04 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <8c4fb550-3194-4f8a-b928-cc54bccd519c@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #722402 |
This is my Helium model: http://users.accesscomm.ca/sefton/Helium.GIF
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-07 00:46 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <q0u7gj$phn$10@pcls7.std.com> |
| In reply to | #722407 |
john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> writes: >This is my Helium model: >http://users.accesscomm.ca/sefton/Helium.GIF That's not even a model! All it is is an animated gif.
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| From | pnalsing@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-06 14:05 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <3396010f-184f-4ad7-a1a7-cc4b69ccf2f5@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #722402 |
On Sunday, January 6, 2019 at 1:53:22 PM UTC-8, john wrote: > The Earth and the Moon are too small to attract Helium and Hydrogen. So... why are they present in our atmosphere? Why haven't they both floated away already?
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| From | Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-06 22:16 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <q0tuod$1c4o$3@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #722402 |
john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> wrote: > Odd > I’ll tell you why that surprises me. > You see- my latest thinking on Gravity is that Helium and Hydrogen will > escape from all planets beneath a certain size- that size where incoming > PUSH of gravitational force equals outgoing PUSH of gravitational force. > The Earth and the Moon are too small to attract Helium and Hydrogen. > > Another example of where your brain veers off into the weeds and you open your yap before getting back on the road. -- Odd Bodkin — Maker of fine toys, tools, tables
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| From | moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-07 00:44 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <q0u7d1$phn$9@pcls7.std.com> |
| In reply to | #722402 |
john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> writes: >The Earth and the Moon are too small to attract Helium and Hydrogen. A sropped clock is right twice a day! A blind squirrel really will find an acorn once in a while! John Sefton can post something correct once in a while! (for a completely wrong reason, but still...) Yes, the earth and moon are too small for their gravity to hold onto hydrogen and helium. To see why, compare the average speed of their atoms at a typical temperature to the escape velocity.
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| From | Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-07 02:53 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <ef6469e8-3c91-14b9-0d46-44cc25c0887e@PointedEars.de> |
| In reply to | #722460 |
Michael Moroney wrote: > john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> writes: >> The Earth and the Moon are too small to attract Helium and Hydrogen. > > A sropped clock is right twice a day! > A blind squirrel really will find an acorn once in a while! > John Sefton can post something correct once in a while! JFYI: There is nothing correct about this. Both atmospheres do contain helium and hydrogen. > […] > Yes, the earth and moon are too small for their gravity to hold > onto hydrogen and helium. No. > To see why, compare the average speed of their atoms at a typical > temperature to the escape velocity. BTDT. Your turn. -- PointedEars Twitter: @PointedEars2 Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.
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| From | moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-07 02:11 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <q0ucgu$u24$1@pcls7.std.com> |
| In reply to | #722475 |
Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> writes: >Michael Moroney wrote: >> john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> writes: >>> The Earth and the Moon are too small to attract Helium and Hydrogen. >> >> A stopped clock is right twice a day! >> A blind squirrel really will find an acorn once in a while! >> John Sefton can post something correct once in a while! >JFYI: There is nothing correct about this. Both atmospheres do contain >helium and hydrogen. >> Yes, the earth and moon are too small for their gravity to hold >> onto hydrogen and helium. >No. I said 'hold onto'. There is a very thin transient atmosphere, which exists only because it is constantly replenished. The "atmosphere" of the Moon is considered to be an excellent vacuum on Earth. >> To see why, compare the average speed of their atoms at a typical >> temperature to the escape velocity. >BTDT. Your turn. AVERAGE. The speeds of molecules in a gas are not single valued. Enough H and He atoms exceed escape velocity that they do escape and are lost.
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| From | Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-07 03:57 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <47b3e22e-72ee-7100-7bd5-3e9fbb236f0d@PointedEars.de> |
| In reply to | #722479 |
Michael Moroney wrote: > Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> writes: >> Michael Moroney wrote: >>> john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> writes: >>>> The Earth and the Moon are too small to attract Helium and Hydrogen. >>> >>> A stopped clock is right twice a day! >>> A blind squirrel really will find an acorn once in a while! >>> John Sefton can post something correct once in a while! >> >> JFYI: There is nothing correct about this. Both atmospheres do contain >> helium and hydrogen. >> >>> Yes, the earth and moon are too small for their gravity to hold >>> onto hydrogen and helium. >> >> No. > > I said 'hold onto'. There is a very thin transient atmosphere, which exists > only because it is constantly replenished. Cite evidence. > The "atmosphere" of the Moon is considered to be an excellent vacuum on Earth. Non sequitur. The fact that there are few such molecules to begin with has nothing to do with how many of those that are there escape. See below. >>> To see why, compare the average speed of their atoms at a typical >>> temperature to the escape velocity. >> BTDT. Your turn. ^^^^ > AVERAGE. The speeds of molecules in a gas are not single valued. I know. Learn to read. > Enough H and He atoms exceed escape velocity that they do escape and are lost. “Enough” is a weasel word. The data shows what the theory predicts: *most* hydrogen _molecules_ and helium _atoms_ that are there are NOT lost (this way), because their speeds are *lower* than the escape velocity where they are. Because of the dependency on surface temperature, the atmosphere should be more tenuous during the day than the night. I wonder if this has been investigated during the Apollo program, or will be investigated by Chang'e-4 which just landed on the far side (which has day and night, too). -- PointedEars Twitter: @PointedEars2 Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.
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| From | moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-08 15:55 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <q12h53$r59$7@pcls7.std.com> |
| In reply to | #722488 |
Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> writes: >Michael Moroney wrote: >> Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> writes: >>> Michael Moroney wrote: >>>> john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> writes: >>>>> The Earth and the Moon are too small to attract Helium and Hydrogen. >>>> >>>> A stopped clock is right twice a day! >>>> A blind squirrel really will find an acorn once in a while! >>>> John Sefton can post something correct once in a while! >>> >>> JFYI: There is nothing correct about this. Both atmospheres do contain >>> helium and hydrogen. >>> >>>> Yes, the earth and moon are too small for their gravity to hold >>>> onto hydrogen and helium. >>> >>> No. >> >> I said 'hold onto'. There is a very thin transient atmosphere, which exists >> only because it is constantly replenished. >Cite evidence. >> The "atmosphere" of the Moon is considered to be an excellent vacuum on Earth. >Non sequitur. The fact that there are few such molecules to begin with has >nothing to do with how many of those that are there escape. See below. >>>> To see why, compare the average speed of their atoms at a typical >>>> temperature to the escape velocity. >>> BTDT. Your turn. > ^^^^ >> AVERAGE. The speeds of molecules in a gas are not single valued. >I know. Learn to read. >> Enough H and He atoms exceed escape velocity that they do escape and are lost. >“Enough” is a weasel word. >The data shows what the theory predicts: *most* hydrogen _molecules_ and >helium _atoms_ that are there are NOT lost (this way), because their speeds >are *lower* than the escape velocity where they are. They only have to exceed escape velocity ONCE. Then they are lost. If 99.9% of the gas molecules never exceed escape velocity during a given day, it means that 0.1% do and (barring collisions on the way out) the atmosphere decreases by 0.1% per day. That is why the moon's "atmosphere" would be a hard vacuum on earth, fewer than a million molecules per cc, and what's there is transient from outgassing or solar wind. Earth is not the core of a gas giant for the same reason, helium and (free) hydrogen atoms/molecules frequently exceed escape velocity and are lost forever. >Because of the dependency on surface temperature, the atmosphere should be >more tenuous during the day than the night. I wonder if this has been >investigated during the Apollo program, or will be investigated by Chang'e-4 >which just landed on the far side (which has day and night, too). An interesting idea. It would depend on how long the average lifetime of gas molecules is, compared to a lunar day.
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| From | Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-09 01:49 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <c5dbd20c-0551-c8f2-544a-96d987ad02a7@PointedEars.de> |
| In reply to | #722682 |
Michael Moroney wrote: > Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> writes: >> Michael Moroney wrote: >>> Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> writes: >>>> Michael Moroney wrote: >>>>> john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> writes: >>>>>> The Earth and the Moon are too small to attract Helium and Hydrogen. >>>>> >>>>> A stopped clock is right twice a day! >>>>> A blind squirrel really will find an acorn once in a while! >>>>> John Sefton can post something correct once in a while! >>>> >>>> JFYI: There is nothing correct about this. Both atmospheres do contain >>>> helium and hydrogen. >>>> >>>>> Yes, the earth and moon are too small for their gravity to hold >>>>> onto hydrogen and helium. >>>> No. >>> I said 'hold onto'. There is a very thin transient atmosphere, which exists >>> only because it is constantly replenished. >> Cite evidence. Well? >>> The "atmosphere" of the Moon is considered to be an excellent vacuum on Earth. >> Non sequitur. The fact that there are few such molecules to begin with has >> nothing to do with how many of those that are there escape. See below. Well? >>>>> To see why, compare the average speed of their atoms at a typical >>>>> temperature to the escape velocity. >>>> BTDT. Your turn. >> ^^^^ >>> AVERAGE. The speeds of molecules in a gas are not single valued. >> >> I know. Learn to read. Well? >>> Enough H and He atoms exceed escape velocity that they do escape and are lost. >> “Enough” is a weasel word. > >> The data shows what the theory predicts: *most* hydrogen _molecules_ and >> helium _atoms_ that are there are NOT lost (this way), because their speeds >> are *lower* than the escape velocity where they are. > > They only have to exceed escape velocity ONCE. Then they are lost. […] I do not think so. Luna can catch up with them later as she is moving in her orbit, too, at ≈ 1.20 km/s. Their escape velocities on the surface would be ≈ 2.376 km/s, but no direction is implied. And escape velocities at higher altitudes would be less than that. But you can theorize all you want; it is a *fact* that Luna does have a thin, tenuous atmosphere that contains also hydrogen and helium. > Earth is not the core of a gas giant for the same reason, helium > and (free) hydrogen atoms/molecules frequently exceed > escape velocity and are lost forever. Complete nonsense. >> Because of the dependency on surface temperature, the atmosphere should be >> more tenuous during the day than the night. I wonder if this has been >> investigated during the Apollo program, or will be investigated by Chang'e-4 >> which just landed on the far side (which has day and night, too). > > An interesting idea. It would depend on how long the average lifetime of > gas molecules is, compared to a lunar day. It should be interesting to look at or make a black-body temperature model of Luna as if it were receiving radiation only by Sol, considering its albedo and the fact that the intensity of emitted infrared radiation obeys the inverse square law. It can be expected that the atmospheric temperature farther away from the surface is less than on the surface (I do not see how there can be an inversion there), and it should be interesting to see how the average speeds of gas molecules as given by the Maxwell–Boltzmann velocity distribution then relate to the escape velocities where they are. -- PointedEars Twitter: @PointedEars2 Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.
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| From | moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-09 04:48 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <q13ue4$hhr$1@pcls7.std.com> |
| In reply to | #722737 |
Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> writes: >Michael Moroney wrote: >> Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> writes: >>> Michael Moroney wrote: >>>> Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> writes: >>>>> Michael Moroney wrote: >>>>>> john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> writes: >>>>>>> The Earth and the Moon are too small to attract Helium and Hydrogen. >>>>>> >>>>>> A stopped clock is right twice a day! >>>>>> A blind squirrel really will find an acorn once in a while! >>>>>> John Sefton can post something correct once in a while! >>>>> >>>>> JFYI: There is nothing correct about this. Both atmospheres do contain >>>>> helium and hydrogen. >>>>> >>>>>> Yes, the earth and moon are too small for their gravity to hold >>>>>> onto hydrogen and helium. >>>>> No. >>>> I said 'hold onto'. There is a very thin transient atmosphere, which exists >>>> only because it is constantly replenished. >>> Cite evidence. >Well? Do I have to spoon feed you as well? You can start at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere_of_the_Moon >>>> The "atmosphere" of the Moon is considered to be an excellent vacuum on Earth. >>> Non sequitur. The fact that there are few such molecules to begin with has >>> nothing to do with how many of those that are there escape. See below. >Well? Escape velocity means they escape. Gone. No longer part of the atmosphere of the moon. >>>>>> To see why, compare the average speed of their atoms at a typical >>>>>> temperature to the escape velocity. >>>>> BTDT. Your turn. >>> ^^^^ >>>> AVERAGE. The speeds of molecules in a gas are not single valued. >>> >>> I know. Learn to read. >Well? Likely a Bell curve or similar in distribution. Molecules in the far right tail escape and are lost. How big the tail determines how rapidly they escape. >>>> Enough H and He atoms exceed escape velocity that they do escape and are lost. >>> “Enough” is a weasel word. >> >>> The data shows what the theory predicts: *most* hydrogen _molecules_ and >>> helium _atoms_ that are there are NOT lost (this way), because their speeds >>> are *lower* than the escape velocity where they are. >> >> They only have to exceed escape velocity ONCE. Then they are lost. […] >I do not think so. Luna can catch up with them later as she is moving in >her orbit, too, at ≈ 1.20 km/ The escape velocity is relative to the moon, and by definition, the moon cannot "catch up" to the escaped atoms. s. Their escape velocities on the surface >would be ≈ 2.376 km/s, but no direction is implied. And escape velocities >at higher altitudes would be less than that. >But you can theorize all you want; it is a *fact* that Luna does have a >thin, tenuous atmosphere that contains also hydrogen and helium. Which, if not replenished, would dissipate. >> Earth is not the core of a gas giant for the same reason, helium >> and (free) hydrogen atoms/molecules frequently exceed >> escape velocity and are lost forever. >Complete nonsense. Umm, you think Earth *is* the core of a gas giant? You do realize what the solar abundance of H and He are compared to O and Si, Jupiter is believed to be close to the solar abundance. Where is all of Earth's hydrogen and helium? Sure Earth has a lot of H in water, where is the rest? Why does Jupiter get to keep all the H and He but Earth doesn't? >>> Because of the dependency on surface temperature, the atmosphere should be >>> more tenuous during the day than the night. I wonder if this has been >>> investigated during the Apollo program, or will be investigated by Chang'e-4 >>> which just landed on the far side (which has day and night, too). >> >> An interesting idea. It would depend on how long the average lifetime of >> gas molecules is, compared to a lunar day. >It should be interesting to look at or make a black-body temperature model >of Luna as if it were receiving radiation only by Sol, considering its >albedo and the fact that the intensity of emitted infrared radiation obeys >the inverse square law. >It can be expected that the atmospheric temperature farther away from the >surface is less than on the surface (I do not see how there can be an >inversion there), and it should be interesting to see how the average speeds >of gas molecules as given by the Maxwell–Boltzmann velocity distribution >then relate to the escape velocities where they are. Interesting. I plugged in the diameter of He, a temp of 300K and the pressure on the moon's surface (0.3 nPa = 3*10^-13 kPa) into the mean free path calculator at http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Kinetic/menfre.html and got a mean free path distance of 324*10^6 meters, almost 100 times the diameter of the moon! (Mean free path is the average distance a gas molecule moves before colliding with another) So the "atmosphere" of the moon has to be a bunch of bouncing atoms (since most are below escape velocity) rarely interacting with each other. Not what we normally consider a gas. But any atom exceeding escape velocity will almost never hit anything on its way out and will be gone!
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| From | Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-09 15:27 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <92716644-2a14-2dbb-cd1e-3be6e747a069@PointedEars.de> |
| In reply to | #722752 |
Michael Moroney wrote:
> Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> writes:
>> Michael Moroney wrote:
>>> Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> writes:
>>>> Michael Moroney wrote:
>>>>> Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> writes:
>>>>>> Michael Moroney wrote:
>>>>>>> john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>>>> The Earth and the Moon are too small to attract Helium and Hydrogen.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A stopped clock is right twice a day!
>>>>>>> A blind squirrel really will find an acorn once in a while!
>>>>>>> John Sefton can post something correct once in a while!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> JFYI: There is nothing correct about this. Both atmospheres do contain
>>>>>> helium and hydrogen.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, the earth and moon are too small for their gravity to hold
>>>>>>> onto hydrogen and helium.
>>>>>> No.
>>>>> I said 'hold onto'. There is a very thin transient atmosphere, which exists
>>>>> only because it is constantly replenished.
>>>> Cite evidence.
>> Well?
>
> Do I have to spoon feed you as well?
Do not be facetious. It is your obligation to provide evidence supporting
your claims. Trying to shifting the burden of proof might work with other
people; not with me.
> You can start at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere_of_the_Moon
IOW, you have no evidence, you are only relying on your (as it will be
shown, ignorant) interpretation of second-hand information.
>>>>> The "atmosphere" of the Moon is considered to be an excellent vacuum on Earth.
>>>> Non sequitur. The fact that there are few such molecules to begin with has
>>>> nothing to do with how many of those that are there escape. See below.
>> Well?
>
> Escape velocity means they escape. Gone. No longer part of the atmosphere
> of the moon.
No, that is NOT what escape velocity means.
>>>>>>> To see why, compare the average speed of their atoms at a typical
>>>>>>> temperature to the escape velocity.
>>>>>> BTDT. Your turn.
>>>> ^^^^
>>>>> AVERAGE. The speeds of molecules in a gas are not single valued.
>>>>
>>>> I know. Learn to read.
>
>> Well?
>
> Likely a Bell curve or similar in distribution.
So you have not read my other follow-up at all, or studied up on this before
you posted. Because if you did, you would have known that the speed of
molecules is properly described by the Maxwell–Boltzmann probability
distribution which is decidedly NOT symmetric like a Bell curve.
It also has a rather long tail, which means that the majority of gas
particles (they do not have to be molecules; for example, helium is a
one-atomic substance) have the *lowest* speed.
There are three characteristic speeds for gas particles in statistical
thermodynamics:
1. The speed that most gas particles have:
v_max = √(2 k T/m);
2. The mean speed:
v̅ = √(8 k T/(π m));
3. The root mean square (RMS) of the speeds¹:
__
√(v²) = √(3 k T/m)
In each case m is the mass of one particle (cf. my calculation).
One can see that the following is true:
__
v_max < v̅ < √(v²)
IOW, *most* gas particles have the *lowest* of all characteristic speeds.
[Thank you for helping me to prepare for the physics exam.]
> Molecules in the far right tail escape and are lost.
But those are NOT the *majority* of gas particles.
> How big the tail determines how rapidly they escape.
No, it determines the ratio of the highest to the lowest speeds. But that
does NOT mean that there would be more gas particles that have a high speed;
on the contrary.
>>>>> Enough H and He atoms exceed escape velocity that they do escape and are lost.
>>>> “Enough” is a weasel word.
>>>> The data shows what the theory predicts: *most* hydrogen _molecules_ and
>>>> helium _atoms_ that are there are NOT lost (this way), because their speeds
>>>> are *lower* than the escape velocity where they are.
>>> They only have to exceed escape velocity ONCE. Then they are lost. […]
>> I do not think so. Luna can catch up with them later as she is moving in
>> her orbit, too, at ≈ 1.20 km/
>
> The escape velocity is relative to the moon, and by definition, the moon cannot
> "catch up" to the escaped atoms.
Plain wrong. Think about it: A gas particle can escape in *any* direction.
Luna is only moving in *one* direction.
> s. Their escape velocities on the surface
>> would be ≈ 2.376 km/s, but no direction is implied. And escape velocities
>> at higher altitudes would be less than that.
>
>> But you can theorize all you want; it is a *fact* that Luna does have a
>> thin, tenuous atmosphere that contains also hydrogen and helium.
>
> Which, if not replenished, would dissipate.
Still no evidence. You are just making claims above claims, based on an
interpretation of a Wikipedia articles that is only supported by your
complete ignorance of the subject matter. Hopeless.
>>> Earth is not the core of a gas giant for the same reason, helium
>>> and (free) hydrogen atoms/molecules frequently exceed
>>> escape velocity and are lost forever.
>> Complete nonsense.
>
> Umm, you think Earth *is* the core of a gas giant?
That gas particles escape is NOT the reason why Earth is not the core of a
gas giant.
Shut up and study (astrophysics; like I do).
> [tl;dr]
I do not have time for further of your wannabe’s nonsense. Come back when
you actually know what you are talking about.
______
¹ You square each speed, determine the arithmetic mean of the squares,
and take the square root of that. Note that this is not the same as
squaring the arithmetic mean and reverting that by taking the square
root.
--
PointedEars
Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.
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| From | Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-07 02:47 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <4e352295-129a-9483-87c2-4d326de9eebd@PointedEars.de> |
| In reply to | #722402 |
john wrote:
> You see- my latest thinking
> on Gravity is that Helium and Hydrogen will escape from all planets
> beneath a certain size-
This is true *if the gases have a temperature that is high enough* and
*are located far enough from the center of mass* of the celestial body.
For a spherically symmetric celestial body of mass M, the escape velocity
v_esc (actually, a speed) is the speed where the kinetic energy T of a
particle with mass m at least equals the potential energy U of gravity:
T = U
m/2 v_esc² = G m M/r,
v_esc = √(2 G M/r),
with r the distance of the particle from the celestial body’s center of mass
(note that the escape velocity is independent from the particle’s mass).
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_velocity>
For Luna (the Moon), the escape velocity on its surface (r = R_Luna) is
v_esc ≈ √(2 G M_Luna/R_Luna) ≈ 2.376 km/s.
<https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=sqrt(2+G+lunar+mass%2Flunar+radius)>
The velocity of the most gas particles at absolute temperature T, according
to the Maxwell–Boltzmann velocity distribution, is
v_max = √(2 k T/m),
with k the Boltzmann constant and m the mass of one particle. For helium, m
is the mass of one helium atom,
m = m_He ≈ 4 u ≈ 6.65 × 10⁻²⁷ kg [2 protons and 2 neutrons;
the 2 electrons have negligible mass]
The mean surface temperature on Luna is ̅θ_Luna = −36 °C, that is
T̅_Luna = (−36 + 273.15) K = 237.15 K.
<https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=Lunar+mean+surface+temperature>
We find:
v_max_He_Luna = √(2 k T̅_Luna/m_He) ≈ 0.9923 km/s
v_max_H₂_Luna = √(2 k T̅_Luna/m_H₂) ≈ 1.539 km/s.
<https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=sqrt(2+*+Boltzmann+constant+*+(Luna+mean+surface+temperature+in+K)%2F(mass+of+helium+atom))>
<https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=sqrt(2+*+Boltzmann+constant+*+(Luna+mean+surface+temperature+in+K)%2F(mass+of+hydrogen+molecule))&assumption=%7B%22DPClash%22,+%22ChemicalP%22,+%22mass%22%7D+-%3E+%7B%22MolecularMass%22%7D>
Both are *below* the escape velocity on the lunar surface at mean lunar
surface temperature.
So it is entirely possible for Luna to hold a *thin* *tenuous* atmosphere
which contains both helium and hydrogen. Which is why it *actually* does:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere_of_the_Moon>
> that size where incoming PUSH of gravitational force equals outgoing PUSH
> of gravitational force.
Nonsense. Gases escape from a celestial body because molecules’/atoms’
speeds exceed the escape velocity at a certain distance from the center of
mass due to the gases’ temperatures. See above for the reason.
Put simply, you have to throw up something fast enough for it never to return.
> The Earth and the Moon are too small to attract Helium and Hydrogen.
But Terra’s atmosphere contains 0.000055 % molecular hydrogen (H₂) and
0.000524 % helium (He), *too*:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere_of_Earth>
These observational facts refute your idea.
[You can also calculate that using the equation above and
an atmospheric altitude of h = 10 km to 100 km (r = R_Terra + h).]
And let us just assume for a moment that there would be no hydrogen (H₂) in
Terra’s atmosphere at all: Where, do you think, does water (H₂O) come from?
Read, think, post; in *that* order.
--
PointedEars
Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.
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| From | Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-07 10:58 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <q100g0$aok$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #722473 |
On 1/6/2019 7:47 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote: > john wrote: >> You see- my latest thinking >> on Gravity is that Helium and Hydrogen will escape from all planets >> beneath a certain size- > > This is true *if the gases have a temperature that is high enough* and > *are located far enough from the center of mass* of the celestial body. > > For a spherically symmetric celestial body of mass M, the escape velocity > v_esc (actually, a speed) is the speed where the kinetic energy T of a > particle with mass m at least equals the potential energy U of gravity: > > T = U > m/2 v_esc² = G m M/r, > v_esc = √(2 G M/r), > > with r the distance of the particle from the celestial body’s center of mass > (note that the escape velocity is independent from the particle’s mass). > > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_velocity> > > For Luna (the Moon), the escape velocity on its surface (r = R_Luna) is > > v_esc ≈ √(2 G M_Luna/R_Luna) ≈ 2.376 km/s. > > <https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=sqrt(2+G+lunar+mass%2Flunar+radius)> > > The velocity of the most gas particles at absolute temperature T, according > to the Maxwell–Boltzmann velocity distribution, is > > v_max = √(2 k T/m), > > with k the Boltzmann constant and m the mass of one particle. For helium, m > is the mass of one helium atom, > > m = m_He ≈ 4 u ≈ 6.65 × 10⁻²⁷ kg [2 protons and 2 neutrons; > the 2 electrons have negligible mass] > > The mean surface temperature on Luna is ̅θ_Luna = −36 °C, that is > > T̅_Luna = (−36 + 273.15) K = 237.15 K. > > <https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=Lunar+mean+surface+temperature> > > We find: > > v_max_He_Luna = √(2 k T̅_Luna/m_He) ≈ 0.9923 km/s > v_max_H₂_Luna = √(2 k T̅_Luna/m_H₂) ≈ 1.539 km/s. > > <https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=sqrt(2+*+Boltzmann+constant+*+(Luna+mean+surface+temperature+in+K)%2F(mass+of+helium+atom))> > > <https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=sqrt(2+*+Boltzmann+constant+*+(Luna+mean+surface+temperature+in+K)%2F(mass+of+hydrogen+molecule))&assumption=%7B%22DPClash%22,+%22ChemicalP%22,+%22mass%22%7D+-%3E+%7B%22MolecularMass%22%7D> > > Both are *below* the escape velocity on the lunar surface at mean lunar > surface temperature. > > So it is entirely possible for Luna to hold a *thin* *tenuous* atmosphere > which contains both helium and hydrogen. Which is why it *actually* does: > > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere_of_the_Moon> > >> that size where incoming PUSH of gravitational force equals outgoing PUSH >> of gravitational force. > > Nonsense. Gases escape from a celestial body because molecules’/atoms’ > speeds exceed the escape velocity at a certain distance from the center of > mass due to the gases’ temperatures. See above for the reason. > > Put simply, you have to throw up something fast enough for it never to return. > >> The Earth and the Moon are too small to attract Helium and Hydrogen. > > But Terra’s atmosphere contains 0.000055 % molecular hydrogen (H₂) and > 0.000524 % helium (He), *too*: > > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere_of_Earth> > > These observational facts refute your idea. > > [You can also calculate that using the equation above and > an atmospheric altitude of h = 10 km to 100 km (r = R_Terra + h).] > > And let us just assume for a moment that there would be no hydrogen (H₂) in > Terra’s atmosphere at all: Where, do you think, does water (H₂O) come from? > > Read, think, post; in *that* order. > Thanks for the analysis ! very interesting to relate all these explains a lot, scientifically + mathematically
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| From | Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-06 22:16 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <q0tuod$1c4o$2@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #722396 |
john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> wrote: > Odd > “ > > What makes you say that? I’m interested ” > Never mind. > Looked it up. Wonder if wonders. > So- what if they find NO Helium on the moon? > Why couldn’t they take a small tank up? Like the dozens of tanks of various gases they already take up. Here’s a thought, John. How about waiting 12 hours before you post a reaction. Would give you time to look things up, and also give you time to reconsider the next silly thing that crosses your mind? Your mouth moves way too fast for your brain. -- Odd Bodkin — Maker of fine toys, tools, tables
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| From | john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-06 16:21 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <cb93888e-6a4a-4cfe-8133-7f1af86b9ea8@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #722410 |
Odd “Why couldn’t they take a small tank up? Like the dozens of tanks of various gases they already take up. ” Obviously they could. Helium is constantly being lost from Earth. You never commented on my “S orbit” for He and H, Odd. Why not? http://users.accesscomm.ca/sefton/Helium.GIF Since the electrons orbit around all 3 axes, the atom reacts to push by moving TOWARDS it.
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| From | moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-07 00:38 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <q0u730$phn$8@pcls7.std.com> |
| In reply to | #722396 |
john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> writes: >Odd >" >What makes you say that? I'm interested " >Never mind. >Looked it up. A first for everything! >So- what if they find NO Helium on the moon? The gravity of the moon is too weak to hold onto an atmosphere of any kind.
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