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Re: Push Gravity

From moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Newsgroups sci.physics
Subject Re: Push Gravity
Date 2019-01-08 15:55 +0000
Organization The World : www.TheWorld.com : Since 1989
Message-ID <q12h53$r59$7@pcls7.std.com> (permalink)
References (16 earlier) <2ef75593-8adf-40be-880c-e0cd77b9d5e1@googlegroups.com> <q0u7d1$phn$9@pcls7.std.com> <ef6469e8-3c91-14b9-0d46-44cc25c0887e@PointedEars.de> <q0ucgu$u24$1@pcls7.std.com> <47b3e22e-72ee-7100-7bd5-3e9fbb236f0d@PointedEars.de>

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Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> writes:

>Michael Moroney wrote:
>> Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> writes:
>>> Michael Moroney wrote:
>>>> john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>> The Earth and the Moon are too small to attract Helium and Hydrogen.
>>>>
>>>> A stopped clock is right twice a day!
>>>> A blind squirrel really will find an acorn once in a while!
>>>> John Sefton can post something correct once in a while!
>>> 
>>> JFYI: There is nothing correct about this.  Both atmospheres do contain
>>> helium and hydrogen.
>>> 
>>>> Yes, the earth and moon are too small for their gravity to hold
>>>> onto hydrogen and helium.
>>> 
>>> No.
>> 
>> I said 'hold onto'. There is a very thin transient atmosphere, which exists
>> only because it is constantly replenished.

>Cite evidence.

>> The "atmosphere" of the Moon is considered to be an excellent vacuum on Earth.

>Non sequitur.  The fact that there are few such molecules to begin with has
>nothing to do with how many of those that are there escape.  See below.

>>>> To see why, compare the average speed of their atoms at a typical
>>>> temperature to the escape velocity.
>>> BTDT.  Your turn.
>   ^^^^
>> AVERAGE.  The speeds of molecules in a gas are not single valued.

>I know.  Learn to read.

>> Enough H and He atoms exceed escape velocity that they do escape and are lost.

>“Enough” is a weasel word.

>The data shows what the theory predicts: *most* hydrogen _molecules_ and
>helium _atoms_ that are there are NOT lost (this way), because their speeds
>are *lower* than the escape velocity where they are.

They only have to exceed escape velocity ONCE. Then they are lost. If 99.9%
of the gas molecules never exceed escape velocity during a given day, it means
that 0.1% do and (barring collisions on the way out) the atmosphere decreases
by 0.1% per day.  That is why the moon's "atmosphere" would be a hard vacuum
on earth, fewer than a million molecules per cc, and what's there is transient
from outgassing or solar wind.  Earth is not the core of a gas giant for the
same reason, helium and (free) hydrogen atoms/molecules frequently exceed
escape velocity and are lost forever.

>Because of the dependency on surface temperature, the atmosphere should be
>more tenuous during the day than the night.  I wonder if this has been
>investigated during the Apollo program, or will be investigated by Chang'e-4
>which just landed on the far side (which has day and night, too).

An interesting idea. It would depend on how long the average lifetime of
gas molecules is, compared to a lunar day.

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Thread

Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-12-30 17:36 -0800
  Re: Push Gravity moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-12-31 01:45 +0000
    Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-12-30 18:02 -0800
      Re: Push Gravity moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-12-31 02:37 +0000
        Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-12-30 19:28 -0800
          Re: Push Gravity Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-12-30 22:09 -0600
            Re: Push Gravity Paul Dakota <jsf@iaswmh.nb> - 2018-12-31 07:14 +0000
              Re: Push Gravity Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-12-31 09:48 -0600
          Re: Push Gravity moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-12-31 04:57 +0000
            Re: Push Gravity poraty6@gmail.com - 2018-12-30 23:19 -0800
              Re: Push Gravity poraty6@gmail.com - 2018-12-30 23:23 -0800
              Re: Push Gravity Paul Dakota <jsf@iaswmh.nb> - 2018-12-31 07:34 +0000
                Re: Push Gravity poraty6@gmail.com - 2018-12-31 00:26 -0800
            Re: Push Gravity James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2018-12-31 00:31 -0800
            Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-12-31 03:20 -0800
              Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-12-31 04:40 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-12-31 05:06 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-31 14:30 +0000
                Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-12-31 08:42 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-12-31 09:27 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-31 18:07 +0000
                Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-12-31 10:19 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-12-31 10:25 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-12-31 12:53 -0600
                Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-31 19:29 +0000
                Re: Push Gravity Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2019-01-02 14:08 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2019-01-02 14:26 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2019-01-02 14:44 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2019-01-02 19:15 -0500
                Re: Push Gravity Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2019-01-02 18:36 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2019-01-02 22:54 -0600
                Re: Push Gravity Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2019-01-03 11:23 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity poraty6@gmail.com - 2019-01-03 14:53 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2019-01-03 21:40 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity poraty6@gmail.com - 2019-01-03 22:49 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2019-01-04 12:53 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2019-01-05 09:23 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2019-01-05 18:23 +0000
                Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2019-01-05 11:04 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2019-01-05 19:59 +0000
                Re: Push Gravity Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 10:26 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2019-01-05 11:27 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2019-01-05 20:18 +0000
                Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2019-01-05 12:45 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity poraty6@gmail.com - 2019-01-05 11:30 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2019-01-05 13:20 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2019-01-05 18:30 -0500
                Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2019-01-05 16:23 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity pnalsing@gmail.com - 2019-01-05 17:47 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2019-01-05 18:47 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2019-01-05 23:08 -0600
                Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2019-01-05 21:19 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity pnalsing@gmail.com - 2019-01-05 21:01 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2019-01-05 21:56 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity pnalsing@gmail.com - 2019-01-05 22:37 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 06:31 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2019-01-06 16:54 +0000
                Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 09:30 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2019-01-06 18:27 +0000
                Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 21:30 +0000
                Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 13:38 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 13:45 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 13:53 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 14:04 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2019-01-07 00:46 +0000
                Re: Push Gravity pnalsing@gmail.com - 2019-01-06 14:05 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 22:16 +0000
                Re: Push Gravity moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2019-01-07 00:44 +0000
                Re: Push Gravity Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2019-01-07 02:53 +0100
                Re: Push Gravity moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2019-01-07 02:11 +0000
                Re: Push Gravity Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2019-01-07 03:57 +0100
                Re: Push Gravity moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2019-01-08 15:55 +0000
                Re: Push Gravity Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2019-01-09 01:49 +0100
                Re: Push Gravity moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2019-01-09 04:48 +0000
                Re: Push Gravity Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2019-01-09 15:27 +0100
                Re: Push Gravity Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2019-01-07 02:47 +0100
                Re: Push Gravity Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2019-01-07 10:58 -0600
                Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 22:16 +0000
                Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 16:21 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2019-01-07 00:38 +0000
                Re: Push Gravity Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2019-01-07 02:54 +0100
                Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 22:16 +0000
                Re: Push Gravity moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2019-01-07 00:35 +0000
                Re: Push Gravity moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2019-01-07 00:51 +0000
                Re: Push Gravity Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2019-01-07 03:02 +0100
                Re: Push Gravity benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2019-01-08 15:04 -0500
                Re: Push Gravity poraty6@gmail.com - 2019-01-07 01:34 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2019-01-08 03:07 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2019-01-08 04:26 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-08 14:31 +0000
                Re: Push Gravity "reber G=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2019-01-08 11:55 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2019-01-08 15:32 +0000
                Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2019-01-08 04:32 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-08 14:31 +0000
                Re: Push Gravity moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2019-01-08 15:37 +0000
                Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2019-01-08 13:21 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-08 14:31 +0000
                Re: Push Gravity moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2019-01-08 15:30 +0000
                Re: Push Gravity benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2019-01-08 15:02 -0500
                Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-08 23:00 +0000
                Re: Push Gravity benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2019-01-08 23:36 -0500
                Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-09 14:45 +0000
                Re: Push Gravity benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2019-01-09 15:43 -0500
                Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2019-01-09 12:52 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-09 21:39 +0000
                Re: Push Gravity benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2019-01-09 19:18 -0500
                Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-10 01:27 +0000
                Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2019-01-09 17:50 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity poraty6@gmail.com - 2019-01-09 18:38 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity poraty6@gmail.com - 2019-01-09 18:27 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity pnalsing@gmail.com - 2019-01-06 11:11 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 21:07 +0000
                Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 21:07 +0000
                Re: Push Gravity Arindam Banerjee <banerjeeadda1234@gmail.com> - 2019-01-05 20:52 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity poraty6@gmail.com - 2019-01-06 04:55 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity Arindam Banerjee <banerjeeadda1234@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 05:12 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2019-01-06 10:34 -0600
                Re: Push Gravity "reber G=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 12:39 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2019-01-07 09:31 -0600
                Re: Push Gravity poraty6@gmail.com - 2019-01-08 05:00 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 10:57 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 10:30 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 21:07 +0000
                Re: Push Gravity benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2019-01-08 14:54 -0500
                Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-08 23:00 +0000
                Re: Push Gravity benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2019-01-08 23:33 -0500
                Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-09 14:45 +0000
                Re: Push Gravity benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2019-01-09 15:42 -0500
                Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-31 19:29 +0000
                Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-12-31 12:05 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-31 20:50 +0000
                Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-12-31 13:13 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-31 21:48 +0000
                Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-12-31 14:01 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-31 22:11 +0000
                Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-12-31 14:17 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-31 22:31 +0000
                Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-12-31 14:50 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-01 00:00 +0000
                Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-12-31 16:13 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-01 01:47 +0000
                Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-12-31 18:00 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2019-01-01 13:36 +0000
                Re: Push Gravity poraty6@gmail.com - 2019-01-04 02:33 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2019-01-04 16:26 +0000
                Re: Push Gravity poraty6@gmail.com - 2019-01-04 08:47 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-12-31 22:28 -0500
                Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-12-31 19:51 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity turcaudjp@gmail.com - 2019-01-01 02:13 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-01 16:33 +0000
                Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-01 16:33 +0000
                Re: Push Gravity poraty6@gmail.com - 2019-01-02 15:12 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity poraty6@gmail.com - 2019-01-02 15:09 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-02 23:24 +0000
                Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2019-01-02 15:45 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-02 23:54 +0000
                Re: Push Gravity john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2019-01-02 15:57 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2019-01-02 19:23 -0500
                Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-03 02:44 +0000
                I've been slandering UseNutters for 28 years now. Jeff-Relf.Me  @. - 2019-01-02 16:19 -0800
                Re: I've been slandering UseNutters for 28 years now. "Sir Gregory Hall,  Esq." <greghall@yacht_maester.fake> - 2019-01-02 19:27 -0500
                Re: I've been slandering UseNutters for 28 years now. % <persent@gmail.com> - 2019-01-02 17:30 -0700
                Re: I've been slandering UseNutters for 28 years now. % <persent@gmail.com> - 2019-01-02 17:30 -0700
                PeeScent's fifth grade education. Jeff-Relf.Me  @. - 2019-01-02 16:39 -0800
                Re: PeeScent's fifth grade education. Jeff-Relf.Me@ - 2019-01-02 17:43 -0700
                Re: PeeScent's fifth grade education. "Sir Gregory Hall,  Esq." <greghall@yacht_maester.fake> - 2019-01-02 19:53 -0500
                Re: PeeScent's fifth grade education. Jeff-Relf.Me@ - 2019-01-02 17:59 -0700
                Re: PeeScent is homeless, I assume. Jeff-Relf.Me@ - 2019-01-03 07:13 -0700
                Re: PeeScent's fifth grade education. "Sir Gregory Hall,  Esq." <greghall@yacht_maester.fake> - 2019-01-02 19:47 -0500
                Re: PeeScent's fifth grade education. % <persent@gmail.com> - 2019-01-02 17:51 -0700
                Re: Push Gravity benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2019-01-02 19:22 -0500
                Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-03 02:44 +0000
                Re: Push Gravity poraty6@gmail.com - 2019-01-02 23:49 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity poraty6@gmail.com - 2019-01-03 02:47 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity poraty6@gmail.com - 2019-01-03 02:53 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity Arther Jackson <invalid@example.com> - 2019-01-04 15:10 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity % <persent@gmail.com> - 2019-01-04 16:12 -0700
                Re: Push Gravity benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2019-01-04 19:41 -0500
                Re: Push Gravity poraty6@gmail.com - 2019-01-04 23:17 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2019-01-02 19:17 -0500
                Re: Push Gravity "reber G=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2019-01-03 14:41 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2019-01-06 10:35 -0600
                Re: Push Gravity poraty6@gmail.com - 2019-01-02 23:45 -0800
                Re: Push Gravity poraty6@gmail.com - 2019-01-01 02:19 -0800
          Re: Push Gravity poraty6@gmail.com - 2018-12-31 01:59 -0800
            Re: Push Gravity poraty6@gmail.com - 2018-12-31 02:15 -0800
  Re: Push Gravity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-31 14:14 +0000
  Re: Push Gravity "reber G=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2018-12-31 09:57 -0800
  Re: Push Gravity mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-12-31 14:08 -0800
  Re: Push Gravity "reber G=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2019-01-03 14:42 -0800
  Push Gravity Arindam Banerjee <banerjeeadda1234@gmail.com> - 2019-01-09 19:53 -0800
    Re: Push Gravity pnalsing@gmail.com - 2019-01-09 20:49 -0800
      Re: Push Gravity Arindam Banerjee <banerjeeadda1234@gmail.com> - 2019-01-09 21:03 -0800
        Re: Push Gravity pnalsing@gmail.com - 2019-01-09 21:35 -0800

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