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Wrench Physics Question

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  Wrench Physics Question Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-10-30 06:47 +0000
    Re: Wrench Physics Question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-10-30 08:09 -0500
      Re: Wrench Physics Question Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-10-30 08:50 -0500
        Re: Wrench Physics Question jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-10-30 17:10 +0000
          Re: Wrench Physics Question gilber34 <fafa@invalid.com> - 2015-10-30 20:54 -0500
          Re: Wrench Physics Question Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-10-30 21:35 -0500
      Re: Wrench Physics Question jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-10-30 17:08 +0000
      Re: Wrench Physics Question Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-10-30 17:23 +0000
        Re: Wrench Physics Question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-10-30 12:44 -0500
          Re: Wrench Physics Question Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-10-30 17:58 +0000
          Re: Wrench Physics Question Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-10-30 18:08 +0000
            Re: Wrench Physics Question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-10-30 15:37 -0500
              Re: Wrench Physics Question Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-10-30 20:42 +0000
                Re: Wrench Physics Question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-10-30 15:51 -0500
          Re: Wrench Physics Question Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-10-30 18:14 +0000
            Re: Wrench Physics Question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-10-30 15:40 -0500
              Re: Wrench Physics Question Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-10-30 21:13 +0000
                Re: Wrench Physics Question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-10-30 16:29 -0500
                  Re: Wrench Physics Question Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-10-30 21:59 +0000
                    Re: Wrench Physics Question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-10-30 17:15 -0500
                      Re: Wrench Physics Question Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-10-30 22:31 +0000
                        Re: Wrench Physics Question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-10-30 21:09 -0500
                          Re: Wrench Physics Question Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-10-31 02:22 +0000
                  Re: Wrench Physics Question xxein1@att.net - 2015-10-30 20:27 -0700
                    Re: Wrench Physics Question Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-10-31 04:23 +0000
                      Re: Wrench Physics Question xxein1@att.net - 2015-10-31 07:16 -0700
                    Re: Wrench Physics Question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-11-01 15:27 -0600
                      Re: Wrench Physics Question Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-11-01 23:16 +0000
                        Re: Wrench Physics Question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-11-02 08:58 -0600
                          Re: Wrench Physics Question Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-11-02 20:00 +0000
                            Re: Wrench Physics Question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-11-02 14:27 -0600
                              Re: Wrench Physics Question Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-11-02 20:52 +0000
                                Re: Wrench Physics Question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-11-02 16:35 -0600
                Re: Wrench Physics Question jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-10-30 21:33 +0000
                  Re: Wrench Physics Question Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-10-30 21:19 -0500
                    Re: Wrench Physics Question jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-10-31 02:58 +0000
    Re: Wrench Physics Question "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2015-10-30 12:41 -0700
      Re: Wrench Physics Question Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-10-30 19:56 +0000
        Re: Wrench Physics Question jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-10-30 20:21 +0000
          Re: Wrench Physics Question Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-10-30 20:39 +0000
            Re: Wrench Physics Question jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-10-30 21:13 +0000
        Re: Wrench Physics Question Tom P <werotizy@freent.dd> - 2015-10-31 22:40 +0100
      Re: Wrench Physics Question Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-10-30 20:25 +0000
        Re: Wrench Physics Question jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-10-30 20:40 +0000
          Re: Wrench Physics Question Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-10-30 21:04 +0000
            Re: Wrench Physics Question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-10-30 16:23 -0500
              Re: Wrench Physics Question noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2015-10-30 14:27 -0700
                Re: Wrench Physics Question Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-10-30 22:28 +0000
                  Re: Wrench Physics Question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-10-30 21:10 -0500
                    Re: Wrench Physics Question Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-10-31 02:25 +0000
                      Re: Wrench Physics Question xxein1@att.net - 2015-10-30 20:45 -0700
                      Re: Wrench Physics Question dvus <dven1@adelphia.net> - 2015-11-01 07:53 -0500
                        Re: Wrench Physics Question Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-11-02 01:09 +0000
                          Re: Wrench Physics Question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-11-02 09:19 -0600
                            Re: Wrench Physics Question Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-11-02 19:43 +0000
                              Re: Wrench Physics Question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-11-02 14:16 -0600
                                Re: Wrench Physics Question Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-11-02 20:30 +0000
                                  Re: Wrench Physics Question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-11-02 16:29 -0600
                                    Re: Wrench Physics Question Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-11-02 23:05 +0000
                                      Re: Wrench Physics Question benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-02 22:23 -0500
                                      Re: Wrench Physics Question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-11-03 07:04 -0600
                                        Re: Wrench Physics Question benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-03 13:31 -0500
                                          Re: Wrench Physics Question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-11-03 15:02 -0600
                                            Re: Wrench Physics Question Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2015-11-03 13:38 -0800
                                              Re: Wrench Physics Question "Hipple the infallible" <invalad@example.com> - 2015-11-03 17:56 -0800
                                              Re: Wrench Physics Question benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2015-11-04 02:26 -0500
                                                Re: Wrench Physics Question Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2015-11-04 08:53 -0800
                                            Re: Wrench Physics Question benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2015-11-04 03:11 -0500
              Re: Wrench Physics Question Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2015-10-30 15:56 -0700
            Re: Wrench Physics Question jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-10-30 21:38 +0000
        Re: Wrench Physics Question "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2015-11-01 22:27 -0800
    Re: Wrench Physics Question xxein1@att.net - 2015-10-30 17:55 -0700
      Re: Wrench Physics Question Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-10-31 01:33 +0000
        Re: Wrench Physics Question xxein1@att.net - 2015-10-30 20:34 -0700
      Re: Wrench Physics Question Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-10-31 02:05 +0000
        Re: Wrench Physics Question xxein1@att.net - 2015-10-30 20:37 -0700
    Re: Wrench Physics Question xxein1@att.net - 2015-10-30 18:00 -0700
    Re: Wrench Physics Question xxein1@att.net - 2015-10-30 18:03 -0700
      Re: Wrench Physics Question Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-10-31 01:24 +0000
    Re: Wrench Physics Question Lofty Goat <rlwatkins@gmail.com> - 2015-10-31 18:44 -0500
      Re: Wrench Physics Question Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-10-31 19:35 -0500
      Re: Wrench Physics Question Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-11-01 01:33 +0000
        Re: Wrench Physics Question benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-10-31 23:21 -0400
          Re: Wrench Physics Question "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2015-11-01 04:35 -0800
      Re: Wrench Physics Question Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-11-01 23:01 +0000

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#529237

Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Oct 2015 20:21:43 +0000, jimp wrote:
> 
>> 
>> A proper size wrench can not slip off of a nut unless you either do
>> something dumb or deform something, most likely the nut.
>> 
> 
> When working in tight quarters when ones vision is partially
> blocked, which is a common occurrence, and when ones frustration
> level is running high, then "dumb" things will commonly happen.
> 
> However, your comment is really beside the point.  The discussion
> is largely theoretical and concerns what COULD possibly happen
> in the two differing cases.

There is nothing theoretical about it; if the wrench slips, you have
failed and you either bash your knuckles or you don't.

 

-- 
Jim Pennino

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#529537

On 10/30/2015 08:56 PM, Fabian Russell wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Oct 2015 12:41:04 -0700, nuny@bid.nes wrote:
>
>
>> Apparently you suspect that one way is more prone to slipping off of the nut.
>>
>
> No.  It's what happens *after* the wrench slips off the nut.
>
> I've applied HUGE forces to stubborn nuts and have experienced a lot
> of slip offs (with consequent stripping of the nut).

In that case you should be using a socket wrench and not an open-end wrench.

>
> The component of force that does not contribute to the torque will
> be different in the two cases and will cause the wrench to accelerate
> differently *after* it slips off.
>

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#529203

On Fri, 30 Oct 2015 12:41:04 -0700, nuny@bid.nes wrote:

> 
> Here's what the U. S. Navy's training manual _Tools And Their Uses_ has to say:
>

The US Navy is still building huge and lumbering vessels in an age when smallness
ans swiftness rule the day.

>
> Apparently you suspect that one way is more prone to slipping off
>

No.  It's what happens *after* the wrench slips off.

Here is a force diagram.  The two cases are depicted as lines above
and below the horizontal lines:

http://s18.postimg.org/4k45guqrd/wrenchforces.png

In one case (F1) we have a component of force that is directed away from
the puller and in the other (F2) the component is directed toward the
puller.  If the wrench slips off which way is preferable?

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#529221

Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Oct 2015 12:41:04 -0700, nuny@bid.nes wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Here's what the U. S. Navy's training manual _Tools And Their Uses_ has to say:
>>
> 
> The US Navy is still building huge and lumbering vessels in an age when smallness
> ans swiftness rule the day.
> 
>>
>> Apparently you suspect that one way is more prone to slipping off
>>
> 
> No.  It's what happens *after* the wrench slips off.

If the wrench slips off, you have failed.

> Here is a force diagram.  The two cases are depicted as lines above
> and below the horizontal lines:
> 
> http://s18.postimg.org/4k45guqrd/wrenchforces.png
> 
> In one case (F1) we have a component of force that is directed away from
> the puller and in the other (F2) the component is directed toward the
> puller.  If the wrench slips off which way is preferable?

One needs to analyze the cause of the failure, not the after effects.

The direction of applied force that is preferable in the event of a
failure is the direction that causes the least damages to ones knuckles.
 

-- 
Jim Pennino

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#529231

On Fri, 30 Oct 2015 20:40:36 +0000, jimp wrote:

> 
> If the wrench slips off, you have failed.
> 

Oh yes.  Mr. Perfect has never had a wrench slip off.

Tell that to the guy who failed to mention in the written manual
that metric dimensions were/were not being used.

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#529238

On 10/30/2015 4:04 PM, Fabian Russell wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Oct 2015 20:40:36 +0000, jimp wrote:
>
>>
>> If the wrench slips off, you have failed.
>>
>
> Oh yes.  Mr. Perfect has never had a wrench slip off.
>
> Tell that to the guy who failed to mention in the written manual
> that metric dimensions were/were not being used.
>

Don't you test the fit of wrenches before you torque them?

Here's a bit of folklore that I learned when I started to work on cars.
If you pull toward your torso, your knuckles will hit your torso if the 
wrench slips. If you push away from your torso, you should at least 
check whether your knuckles will hit something hard prior to your arm 
becoming fully extended.

-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#529239

pi minutes ago, you

> check whether your knuckles will hit something hard prior to your arm 
> becoming fully extended.
> 
> -- 
> Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#529273

On Fri, 30 Oct 2015 14:27:45 -0700, noTthaTguY wrote:

>> 
>> Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys
>>

Fine toys are highly inimical to childhood development.
They repress the imagination and stultify personal creativity.

Because fine toys are a serious threat to the well being of
children, and hence to the future of society, they should be
prohibited and banned and all those involved in their production
should be summarily imprisoned or even executed.

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#529335

On 10/30/2015 5:28 PM, Fabian Russell wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Oct 2015 14:27:45 -0700, noTthaTguY wrote:
>
>>>
>>> Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys
>>>
>
> Fine toys are highly inimical to childhood development.
> They repress the imagination and stultify personal creativity.
>
> Because fine toys are a serious threat to the well being of
> children, and hence to the future of society, they should be
> prohibited and banned and all those involved in their production
> should be summarily imprisoned or even executed.
>

I'm going to guess you spent a lot of time in the closet as a child. 
What was the infraction that earned that punishment?

-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#529342

On Fri, 30 Oct 2015 21:10:00 -0500, Odd Bodkin wrote:

> 
> I'm going to guess you spent a lot of time in the closet as a child. 
> What was the infraction that earned that punishment?
>

I was the child of wealth and privilege.  I was given fine toys in abundance.

But I, and my childhood associates, willingly abandoned such luxuries
in favor of the constructions within our own minds.

A pinch of imagination beats hours of craftsmanship any day.

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#529376

On Friday, October 30, 2015 at 10:27:03 PM UTC-4, Fabian Russell wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Oct 2015 21:10:00 -0500, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> 
> > 
> > I'm going to guess you spent a lot of time in the closet as a child. 
> > What was the infraction that earned that punishment?
> >
> 
> I was the child of wealth and privilege.  I was given fine toys in abundance.
> 
> But I, and my childhood associates, willingly abandoned such luxuries
> in favor of the constructions within our own minds.
> 
> A pinch of imagination beats hours of craftsmanship any day.

xxein:  Take a dose of nostalgia and call me in the morning.

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#529670

On 10/30/2015 10:25 PM, Fabian Russell wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Oct 2015 21:10:00 -0500, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>
>>
>> I'm going to guess you spent a lot of time in the closet as a child.
>> What was the infraction that earned that punishment?
>>
>
> I was the child of wealth and privilege.  I was given fine toys in abundance.
>
> But I, and my childhood associates, willingly abandoned such luxuries
> in favor of the constructions within our own minds.
>
> A pinch of imagination beats hours of craftsmanship any day.

Yes, note that youngsters will often play with the box that toys come in 
rather than the toy itself. The box can be so many wonderful things in 
the fertile mind of a child.

As to the angled wrench question, I can say that it's intuitively 
preferable to use it so that the angle of offset is opposite to the 
direction of desired rotation of the nut or bolt. In all my years of 
using wrenches I never thought to discover exactly why that was, I was 
usually too busy with the job at hand, it just felt "right" to use it 
that way. Very unscientific reasoning, to be sure, but I bet most 
mechanics would agree.

It's true that the particulars of the layout of the job can preclude 
using the wrench that way, things blocking the swing of the wrench 
handle being the most common. Flipping the wrench over repeatedly is 
often the only way to get the job done.

Interestingly, I've had situations where I've had to use a combination 
wrench (box on one end, open on the other) and switch back and forth 
from one end to the other to get a nut or bolt to turn in a particularly 
tight situation. Turns out the box end puts the wrench handle at an 
angle half way between the two possible angles offered by flipping the 
open end. At least that's the case with the quality tools I've used over 
the years, I don't know if the Chinese or Taiwanese tools are made that way.

-- 
dvus

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#529822

On Sun, 01 Nov 2015 07:53:49 -0500, dvus wrote:

> 
> Yes, note that youngsters will often play with the box that toys come in 
> rather than the toy itself. The box can be so many wonderful things in 
> the fertile mind of a child.
> 

Well, I wouldn't think that Odd's fine toys are actually toys, in the
sense that they are intended as an actual play item.  They are probably
just a type of collectible, that is, something fancy to be put on display.

Children usually end up wrecking their toys, either accidentally or
deliberately, and no parent would want to allow an expensive toy to
be quickly destroyed.

When I was a child I sometimes had cheap plastic trucks or military
hardware as toys.  Before too long each of those items would end up
being smashed with hammers or rocks or even set on fire.  Other children
(boys of course) would do the same thing.  For a little child, there is
no greater fun than the reckless abandon of destroying ones own toys.

Yes, Odd probably gouges his customers by charging an exorbitant price
for his creations and no purchaser would desire to see that beautiful
toy soldier, with all its fine workmanship, be senselessly dashed into
tiny pieces by the wanton desires of little junior. 

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#529916

On 11/1/2015 7:09 PM, Fabian Russell wrote:
> On Sun, 01 Nov 2015 07:53:49 -0500, dvus wrote:
>
>>
>> Yes, note that youngsters will often play with the box that toys come in
>> rather than the toy itself. The box can be so many wonderful things in
>> the fertile mind of a child.
>>
>
> Well, I wouldn't think that Odd's fine toys are actually toys, in the
> sense that they are intended as an actual play item.  They are probably
> just a type of collectible, that is, something fancy to be put on display.

You haven't seen them. Your prejudgments belong to you.

>
> Children usually end up wrecking their toys, either accidentally or
> deliberately, and no parent would want to allow an expensive toy to
> be quickly destroyed.

Again, a properly made toy endures a child's handling. Which is what I 
make. I've made over 3500 toys since starting this business, and I've 
had reports of breakage of ... wait for it ... two. I repaired one and 
replaced another.

Your own childhood experience with cheaply built toys is no doubt a 
different story.

>
> When I was a child I sometimes had cheap plastic trucks or military
> hardware as toys.  Before too long each of those items would end up
> being smashed with hammers or rocks or even set on fire.  Other children
> (boys of course) would do the same thing.  For a little child, there is
> no greater fun than the reckless abandon of destroying ones own toys.
>
> Yes, Odd probably gouges his customers by charging an exorbitant price
> for his creations and no purchaser would desire to see that beautiful
> toy soldier, with all its fine workmanship, be senselessly dashed into
> tiny pieces by the wanton desires of little junior.
>

I don't make wooden toy soldiers.
And believe me, my toys get plenty of playtime.


-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#529983

On Mon, 02 Nov 2015 09:19:30 -0600, Odd Bodkin wrote:

> 
> a properly made toy endures a child's handling. Which is what I 
> make. 
>

Well, he didn't dispute the part about the price gouging, so that
MUST be true.

Don't fret, everybody does it.  Caveat Emptor.

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#529994

On 11/2/2015 1:43 PM, Fabian Russell wrote:
> On Mon, 02 Nov 2015 09:19:30 -0600, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>
>>
>> a properly made toy endures a child's handling. Which is what I
>> make.
>>
>
> Well, he didn't dispute the part about the price gouging, so that
> MUST be true.

Oh come on. You think that if you say something stupid and your target 
doesn't respond to your stupidity, you must be right?
That's the mark of an attention whore.

My toys are for children, and they are priced to be affordable to 
parents of children. Not as cheap as a cardboard box. Not as expensive 
as a blender. If you'd rather see children have cardboard boxes or 
blenders, that's up to you.

>
> Don't fret, everybody does it.  Caveat Emptor.
>


-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#530002

On Mon, 02 Nov 2015 14:16:50 -0600, Odd Bodkin wrote:

> 
> My toys are for children, and they are priced to be affordable to 
> parents of children.
>

You mean you don't overprice?  Whew!  You are letting a fortune
slip through your fingers.

Don't take my word for it.  Any marketing consultant will inform
you that the type of clientele with which you deal has money
to burn, and they don't exercise much discretion.  You should
be able to easily get away with extreme markups and still maintain
current sales levels.

Essentially, you are dealing with a market that has a lot more disposable
income than brains.

So what prevents the exploitation?  Morals?  Scruples?  LOL!  Even
the pastor/priest at your local church wouldn't resist such opportunity.

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#530041

On 11/2/2015 2:30 PM, Fabian Russell wrote:
> On Mon, 02 Nov 2015 14:16:50 -0600, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>
>>
>> My toys are for children, and they are priced to be affordable to
>> parents of children.
>>
>
> You mean you don't overprice?  Whew!  You are letting a fortune
> slip through your fingers.
>
> Don't take my word for it.  Any marketing consultant will inform
> you that the type of clientele with which you deal has money
> to burn, and they don't exercise much discretion.  You should
> be able to easily get away with extreme markups and still maintain
> current sales levels.
>
> Essentially, you are dealing with a market that has a lot more disposable
> income than brains.
>
> So what prevents the exploitation?  Morals?  Scruples?  LOL!  Even
> the pastor/priest at your local church wouldn't resist such opportunity.
>

Fabian, you are trolling me now.
You condemn me for overcharging (when you have no idea what I charge).
Then you condemn me for NOT overcharging (when you have no idea what I 
charge).

I don't really care if you are disenfranchised from the world. I don't 
share your disillusionment.



-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#530048

On Mon, 02 Nov 2015 16:29:09 -0600, Odd Bodkin wrote:

> 
> I don't  share your disillusionment.
>

Correct.  You don't share anything of mine.  That would be flatly
impossible.

Face the facts, if you can.  You are a fuddy-duddy rationalist that
has accomplished nothing in life.  All you've done is merely imitate
and utilize ideas and techniques established by others.  You are
devoid of both perception and creativity.

But please don't despair.  You have LOTS of company.

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#530071

On 11/02/2015 06:05 PM, Fabian Russell wrote:
> On Mon, 02 Nov 2015 16:29:09 -0600, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>
>>
>> I don't  share your disillusionment.
>>
>
> Correct.  You don't share anything of mine.  That would be flatly
> impossible.
>
> Face the facts, if you can.  You are a fuddy-duddy rationalist that
> has accomplished nothing in life.  All you've done is merely imitate
> and utilize ideas and techniques established by others.  You are
> devoid of both perception and creativity.
>
> But please don't despair.  You have LOTS of company.

<SNORT>!

Best assessment of Boinker I've seen in quite some time!



-- 

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    \:\/:/  /     \:\ \/__/       |::/  /
     \::/__/       \:\__\         /:/  /
      ~~            \/__/         \/__/

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