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I prefer Win8 because, unlike Win10, it has no Start Menu.

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  I prefer Win8 because, unlike Win10, it has no Start Menu. Jeff-Relf.Me <@.> - 2015-08-04 00:39 -0700
    Start Killer (StartKiller.COM) removes Win10's Start Button. Jeff-Relf.Me <@.> - 2015-08-04 08:26 -0700
    Re: I prefer Win8 because, unlike Win10, it has no Start Menu. Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-08-04 17:07 +0000
      Re: I prefer Win8 because, unlike Win10, it has no Start Menu. Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 12:22 -0500
        Re: I prefer Win8 because, unlike Win10, it has no Start Menu. gilber34 <invalid@invalid.com> - 2015-08-04 14:31 -0500
          You don't have to use old code, you can/should rewrite it. Jeff-Relf.Me <@.> - 2015-08-04 12:39 -0700
            Re: You don't have to use old code, you can/should rewrite it. gilber34 <invalid@invalid.com> - 2015-08-04 14:53 -0500
              Trite Hedonism.  Quite Trite. Jeff-Relf.Me <@.> - 2015-08-04 14:46 -0700
                Re: Trite Hedonism. Quite Trite. gilber34 <invalid@invalid.com> - 2015-08-04 17:08 -0500
                  Re: Trite Hedonism. Quite Trite. Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-08-04 22:13 +0000
                    Re: Trite Hedonism. Quite Trite. gilber34 <invalid@invalid.com> - 2015-08-04 18:42 -0500
                Trite Hedonism.  Quite Trite. Jeff-Relf.Me <@.> - 2015-08-04 15:11 -0700
                  Trite Hedonism.  Quite Trite. Jeff-Relf.Me <@.> - 2015-08-04 17:15 -0700
                Re: Trite Hedonism. Quite Trite. "A.M" <.m@nsn.s> - 2015-08-05 07:56 -0400
                  "The Bachelor" (on the TV show) is a prissy bottom. Jeff-Relf.Me <@.> - 2015-08-05 10:45 -0700
                Re: Trite Hedonism.  Quite Trite. Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-08-05 14:06 +0000
                  Re: Trite Hedonism.  Quite Trite. "Ezekiel" <zeke@nosuchemail.com> - 2015-08-05 10:13 -0400
                    Re: Trite Hedonism.  Quite Trite. Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-08-05 14:31 +0000
                      Re: Trite Hedonism.  Quite Trite. "Ezekiel" <zeke@nosuchemail.com> - 2015-08-05 11:06 -0400
                        Re: Trite Hedonism.  Quite Trite. Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2015-08-05 17:26 +0200
                          Re: Trite Hedonism.  Quite Trite. "Ezekiel" <zeke@nosuchemail.com> - 2015-08-05 11:29 -0400
                            Re: Trite Hedonism.  Quite Trite. Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-08-05 15:42 +0000
                              Re: Trite Hedonism.  Quite Trite. "Ezekiel" <zeke@nosuchemail.com> - 2015-08-05 12:00 -0400
                                Re: Trite Hedonism.  Quite Trite. Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-08-05 16:11 +0000
                                  Re: Trite Hedonism.  Quite Trite. "Ezekiel" <zeke@nosuchemail.com> - 2015-08-05 12:37 -0400
                                    Re: Trite Hedonism.  Quite Trite. Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2015-08-05 18:51 +0200
                                      Re: Trite Hedonism.  Quite Trite. "Ezekiel" <zeke@nosuchemail.com> - 2015-08-05 12:59 -0400
                                        Re: Trite Hedonism.  Quite Trite. Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2015-08-05 19:04 +0200
                                          Re: Trite Hedonism.  Quite Trite. Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-08-05 17:48 +0000
                                            Re: Trite Hedonism.  Quite Trite. Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2015-08-05 20:07 +0200
                                              Re: Trite Hedonism.  Quite Trite. Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-08-05 18:09 +0000
                                                Re: Trite Hedonism.  Quite Trite. "Ezekiel" <zeke@nosuchemail.com> - 2015-08-05 14:26 -0400
                                                  Re: Trite Hedonism.  Quite Trite. Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-08-05 19:30 +0000
                                                    Re: Trite Hedonism.  Quite Trite. Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-08-05 12:44 -0700
                                                    Re: Trite Hedonism.  Quite Trite. "Ezekiel" <zeke@nosuchemail.com> - 2015-08-05 15:50 -0400
                                                    Re: Trite Hedonism.  Quite Trite. vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2015-08-05 15:47 -0700
                                                    Re: Trite Hedonism. Quite Trite. gilber34 <invalid@invalid.com> - 2015-08-07 14:14 -0500
                                                Re: Trite Hedonism.  Quite Trite. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 14:21 -0500
                                            Re: Trite Hedonism. Quite Trite. Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 13:28 -0500
                                              Re: Trite Hedonism. Quite Trite. Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-08-05 19:33 +0000
                                                Re: Trite Hedonism. Quite Trite. Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 14:40 -0500
                                                  Re: Trite Hedonism. Quite Trite. "Ezekiel" <zeke@nosuchemail.com> - 2015-08-05 15:55 -0400
                                                    Re: Trite Hedonism. Quite Trite. Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-08-05 20:28 +0000
                                                      Re: Trite Hedonism. Quite Trite. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 15:37 -0500
                                                        Re: Trite Hedonism. Quite Trite. HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 07:01 -0400
                                                  Re: Trite Hedonism. Quite Trite. Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-08-05 20:33 +0000
                          What's better: a pen or a pencil ?  Salvador Dali used both. Jeff-Relf.Me <@.> - 2015-08-05 11:17 -0700
                            Re: What's better: a pen or a pencil ?  Salvador Dali used both. "Ezekiel" <zeke@nosuchemail.com> - 2015-08-05 14:31 -0400
                              Re: What's better: a pen or a pencil ?  Salvador Dali used both. Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-08-05 19:45 +0000
                            Re: What's better: a pen or a pencil ?  Salvador Dali used both. Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-08-05 19:35 +0000
                  Re: Trite Hedonism. Quite Trite. Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 09:21 -0500
                    Re: Trite Hedonism. Quite Trite. Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2015-08-05 17:02 +0200
                      Re: Trite Hedonism. Quite Trite. "Ezekiel" <zeke@nosuchemail.com> - 2015-08-05 11:26 -0400
            Re: You don't have to use old code, you can/should rewrite it. Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-08-04 21:20 +0000
            Re: You don't have to use old code, you can/should rewrite it. Rock Brentwood <federation2005@netzero.com> - 2015-08-04 15:46 -0700
              Show us your source code. Jeff-Relf.Me <@.> - 2015-08-04 17:26 -0700
              Show us your source code. Jeff-Relf.Me <@.> - 2015-08-04 17:29 -0700
          Re: I prefer Win8 because, unlike Win10, it has no Start Menu. Rock Brentwood <federation2005@netzero.com> - 2015-08-04 15:40 -0700
            Re: I prefer Win8 because, unlike Win10, it has no Start Menu. R Kym Horsell <kym@kymhorsell.com> - 2015-08-04 22:59 +0000
            Re: I prefer Win8 because, unlike Win10, it has no Start Menu. Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-08-04 23:00 +0000
              Re: I prefer Win8 because, unlike Win10, it has no Start Menu. gilber34 <invalid@invalid.com> - 2015-08-04 18:45 -0500
        Re: I prefer Win8 because, unlike Win10, it has no Start Menu. benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 01:38 -0400
      Re: I prefer Win8 because, unlike Win10, it has no Start Menu. benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 13:46 -0400
      Replacing Win10's Start Menu. Jeff-Relf.Me <@.> - 2015-08-04 11:31 -0700
        Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. Double-A <double-a3@hush.com> - 2015-08-04 13:54 -0700
          Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-08-04 21:16 +0000
            Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 16:26 -0500
              Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. R Kym Horsell <kym@kymhorsell.com> - 2015-08-04 21:35 +0000
                Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 16:50 -0500
                  Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 07:57 -0400
              Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-08-04 21:38 +0000
                Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 23:36 -0700
              Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-08-04 21:48 +0000
                Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 16:53 -0500
                  Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-08-04 22:08 +0000
                    Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 17:28 -0500
                      Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-08-04 22:47 +0000
                        Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 18:06 -0500
                          Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. gilber34 <invalid@invalid.com> - 2015-08-04 18:52 -0500
                          Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. R Kym Horsell <kym@kymhorsell.com> - 2015-08-05 00:22 +0000
                        Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. gilber34 <invalid@invalid.com> - 2015-08-07 07:50 -0500
                    Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. gilber34 <invalid@invalid.com> - 2015-08-07 11:45 -0500
            Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. gilber34 <invalid@invalid.com> - 2015-08-04 17:10 -0500
              Replacing Win10's Start Menu. Jeff-Relf.Me <@.> - 2015-08-04 15:21 -0700
                Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-08-04 22:37 +0000
                  Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. gilber34 <invalid@invalid.com> - 2015-08-04 18:56 -0500
                Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. "A.M" <.m@nsn.s> - 2015-08-05 08:11 -0400
                  Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 08:09 -0500
                    Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 09:24 -0400
                      Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 09:09 -0500
                        Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 11:03 -0400
                          Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 10:10 -0500
                            Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 11:22 -0400
                            Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 11:30 -0400
                              Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 10:34 -0500
                          Replacing Win10's Start Menu. Jeff-Relf.Me <@.> - 2015-08-05 11:03 -0700
                          Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. "K Wills (Shill #3)" <compuelf@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 04:18 -0500
                            Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-08-06 17:48 +0000
                              Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. "K Wills (Shill #3)" <compuelf@gmail.com> - 2015-08-07 07:59 -0500
                                Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-07 08:42 -0500
                                  Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-08-07 17:35 +0000
                                    Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-07 13:57 -0500
                                      Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-08-07 19:44 +0000
                                        Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-07 15:03 -0500
                                          Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-08-07 20:23 +0000
                                            Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-07 15:45 -0500
                                              Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-08-07 21:05 +0000
                                                Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-07 16:38 -0500
                                                Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2015-08-07 16:04 -0700
                                    Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-07 13:59 -0500
                                    Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-07 14:00 -0500
                                    Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. "K Wills (Shill #3)" <compuelf@gmail.com> - 2015-08-07 18:19 -0500
                                      Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2015-08-07 16:46 -0700
                                  Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. "K Wills (Shill #3)" <compuelf@gmail.com> - 2015-08-07 18:17 -0500
                                    Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-08-08 01:01 +0000
                                      Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2015-08-07 19:03 -0700
                                      Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. "K Wills (Shill #3)" <compuelf@gmail.com> - 2015-08-08 03:38 -0500
                        Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. R Kym Horsell <kym@kymhorsell.com> - 2015-08-05 21:05 +0000
                    Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-08-05 13:51 +0000
                      Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 09:56 -0500
                        Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 11:32 -0400
                        Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-08-05 18:07 +0000
                          Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. Apollyon <adravirgo@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 11:11 -0700
                          Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 14:05 -0500
                            Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 13:16 -0700
                            Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-08-05 20:45 +0000
                              Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 16:52 -0500
                                Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-08-05 22:26 +0000
                    Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2015-08-07 01:24 -0400
                      Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-07 05:43 -0400
                        Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-07 07:43 -0500
                  Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-08-05 10:10 -0700
              Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 16:30 -0700
                Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 08:05 -0400
                  Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 09:50 -0700
                    Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-08-05 18:00 +0000
                      Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 14:00 -0500
                    Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. "Buck Futter" <invalid@example.com> - 2015-08-05 22:35 -0700
                      Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 01:50 -0700
                  Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. "K Wills (Shill #3)" <compuelf@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 04:18 -0500
          I'm watching you right now. Jeff-Relf.Me <@.> - 2015-08-04 14:19 -0700
            Re: I'm watching you right now. gilber34 <invalid@invalid.com> - 2015-08-04 16:36 -0500
            Re: I'm watching you right now. Double-A <double-a3@hush.com> - 2015-08-04 17:16 -0700
              Ubuntu Spyware: What to do? Jeff-Relf.Me <@.> - 2015-08-04 17:41 -0700
                Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to do? Double-A <double-a3@hush.com> - 2015-08-06 12:29 -0700
              Re: I'm watching you right now. Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-08-05 03:47 +0000
                Re: I'm watching you right now. Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 09:11 -0500
                  Re: I'm watching you right now. R Kym Horsell <kym@kymhorsell.com> - 2015-08-05 21:22 +0000
                    Re: I'm watching you right now. Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-08-06 00:53 +0000
          Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 08:55 -0500
            Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. R Kym Horsell <kym@kymhorsell.com> - 2015-08-05 21:30 +0000
        Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. "Mahipal" <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 17:44 -0700
          Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu. Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 18:01 -0700
      Re: I prefer Win8 because, unlike Win10, it has no Start Menu. chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2015-08-04 14:34 -0500
        Indirectly, you (chrisv) see my posts. Jeff-Relf.Me <@.> - 2015-08-04 12:46 -0700
      Re: I prefer Win8 because, unlike Win10, it has no Start Menu. HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 06:54 -0400

Page 6 of 8 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 8  Next page →

#511752 — Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu.

On Fri, 07 Aug 2015 08:42:32 -0500, Odd Bodkin wrote:

> 
> ... sees digital services as a 
> commodity utility, rather than a hobby kit.
>

Yes.  But as I mentioned elsewhere, such a willful failure to gain
insight into the most revolutionary technology to ever confront our
civilization has had extremely deleterious consequences.

A loss of privacy is only a minor problem compared to the fact that
our society cannot think in digital terms, and this inability to
comprehend digital concepts has created terrible stagnation in the
midst of all this computing plenty.

Have you ever experienced the "modern" office of any kind?  To say
that this environment is 20 years behind the times would be generous.
For the "modern" worker, the computer is merely a paperweight to
keep order to the masses of paper still being pushed.  The extreme
revitalization of business practices that should have taken place
because of digital technology has not taken place and the sole
reason is an entrenched ignorance.

Civilization advances only when the average inhabitant is able to
increase his sophistication in the wake of new technological advances.
In the case of the digital revolution this has not happened.
People want someone else to take their hand and guide them like a
dumb animal.  As a result we have a widespread looting of our
personal lives and an appropriation of otherwise personal power
by large corporate entities.  In this sense, our culture has regressed
and not progressed. 


>
> He's completely fine having someone else do work for him. These are
> the same people who call repairmen, even though in some of the cases
> they could have fixed it themselves, because sometimes it's just not
> worth the trouble or the  time. These people enjoy eating out or bringing
> home take-out food. They like modern appliances, up-to-date electronics,
> and low-mileage cars that don't require a lot of maintenance.
>

One has to have a damned good income to rely on repair services.
Auto repair has become so expensive that the government in my state
(and perhaps many other states) has made special grants available
to allow low income people to fix their cars.

Regarding restaurant or prepared food, one would have to be a total
idiot to partake of that inferior fare.  A lack of healthy ingredients
with way too much salt and fats characterizes virtually all food
that is not prepared in the home kitchen  

In fact, considering the poor technical competence of the majority
of repair and service establishments, the only way to insure high
quality of workmanship is to do it yourself.


> 
> Neither is better than the other. They are just DIFFERENT.
>

No.  Do-it-yourself is far better, both for the individual and,
by breeding a more informed and sophisticated citizen, for the
betterment of society in the long run.

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#511768 — Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu.

On 8/7/2015 12:35 PM, Fabian Russell wrote:
> On Fri, 07 Aug 2015 08:42:32 -0500, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>
>>
>> ... sees digital services as a
>> commodity utility, rather than a hobby kit.
>>
>
> Yes.  But as I mentioned elsewhere, such a willful failure to gain
> insight into the most revolutionary technology to ever confront our
> civilization has had extremely deleterious consequences.
>
> A loss of privacy is only a minor problem compared to the fact that
> our society cannot think in digital terms, and this inability to
> comprehend digital concepts has created terrible stagnation in the
> midst of all this computing plenty.
>
> Have you ever experienced the "modern" office of any kind?  To say
> that this environment is 20 years behind the times would be generous.
> For the "modern" worker, the computer is merely a paperweight to
> keep order to the masses of paper still being pushed.  The extreme
> revitalization of business practices that should have taken place
> because of digital technology has not taken place and the sole
> reason is an entrenched ignorance.
>
> Civilization advances only when the average inhabitant is able to
> increase his sophistication in the wake of new technological advances.
> In the case of the digital revolution this has not happened.
> People want someone else to take their hand and guide them like a
> dumb animal.  As a result we have a widespread looting of our
> personal lives and an appropriation of otherwise personal power
> by large corporate entities.  In this sense, our culture has regressed
> and not progressed.
>

Well, here we are with you saying that everyone should empower 
themselves by understanding computers at a deep level, because YOU 
personally find it interesting. I think I mentioned earlier that your 
attitude seems to be "What I do is the most interesting and worthwhile 
pursuit there is, and anything else is inferior."

But by that argument, you as well should be an expert in biochemistry, 
so that you understand fully what you are doing when you ingest any 
pharmaceuticals or undergo any medical treatment. You as well should be 
an expert engine mechanic, as engine-driven vehicles are the heart and 
soul of the industrial age. You as well should be an expert in economics 
and finance, because the right to financial self-determinism is not to 
be taken cavalierly.

As for me, I built my own shop from the ground up, including excavation, 
concrete work, carpentry, utility services, electrical and plumbing, 
door and window hanging, and roofing and guttering. I am perfectly 
capable of building my own home and doing it for a fraction of the cost 
of purchasing one.

Yet, I'm going to gamble that you do not think skills other than yours 
are worthwhile.


-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#511780 — Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu.

On Fri, 07 Aug 2015 13:57:23 -0500, Odd Bodkin wrote:

> 
> Well, here we are with you saying that everyone should empower 
> themselves by understanding computers at a deep level, because YOU 
> personally find it interesting. I think I mentioned earlier that your 
> attitude seems to be "What I do is the most interesting and worthwhile 
> pursuit there is, and anything else is inferior."
> 
> Well, you see, that's your egotism talking.
>

Oh is it?

I believe that I have been scooped long ago by one of the towering
geniuses of American democracy, namely Thomas Jefferson.

Jefferson, who few today can match in intellectual caliber, was
a fierce advocate of independence and the do-it-yourself spirit.

Here is a link:

http://scholarship.law.wm.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1596&context=facpubs

But for a quick "bite" of this philosophy, check here:

http://www.chacha.com/question/was-thomas-jefferson-for-a-nation-of-independent-farmers


If Thomas Jefferson were alive today, he would both scoff at
the incompetence of contemporary politicians and he would give
complete support to my contentions.

And to anticipate your rebuttal, these ideas are not outmoded
or anachronistic.  They are as valid today as they were 250
years ago.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#511783 — Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu.

On 8/7/2015 2:44 PM, Fabian Russell wrote:
> On Fri, 07 Aug 2015 13:57:23 -0500, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>
>>
>> Well, here we are with you saying that everyone should empower
>> themselves by understanding computers at a deep level, because YOU
>> personally find it interesting. I think I mentioned earlier that your
>> attitude seems to be "What I do is the most interesting and worthwhile
>> pursuit there is, and anything else is inferior."
>>
>> Well, you see, that's your egotism talking.
>>
>
> Oh is it?
>
> I believe that I have been scooped long ago by one of the towering
> geniuses of American democracy, namely Thomas Jefferson.
>
> Jefferson, who few today can match in intellectual caliber, was
> a fierce advocate of independence and the do-it-yourself spirit.

Do you grow your own vegetables, Fabian? Do you slaughter animals that 
you have raised on your own property, or do you hunt for all your meat?

>
> Here is a link:
>
> http://scholarship.law.wm.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1596&context=facpubs
>
> But for a quick "bite" of this philosophy, check here:
>
> http://www.chacha.com/question/was-thomas-jefferson-for-a-nation-of-independent-farmers
>
>
> If Thomas Jefferson were alive today, he would both scoff at
> the incompetence of contemporary politicians and he would give
> complete support to my contentions.

I think it's always unwise to assume that a dead man would support any 
position I might hold.

There are communities of yeoman farmers still alive today. There are 
still Shaker communities, down a little from 20 in their heyday. The 
Amish are still prevalent in some parts of Pennsylvania. Mennonites have 
some of the same ethic. Shaker furniture, by the way, is among the best 
I've ever seen.

I would think you would fit right in, Fabian. Have you ever considered 
joining them?

Oh, by the way, equality of the sexes is a basic belief of Shakers.

>
> And to anticipate your rebuttal, these ideas are not outmoded
> or anachronistic.  They are as valid today as they were 250
> years ago.
>

I think you have every right to pursue a do-it-yourself lifestyle. In 
fact, I would encourage you to do it more than you presently do, so that 
you don't come across as being hypocritical. But I think even Jefferson 
would shy away from saying that everyone should live the way he did.

By the way, you know that a lot of the work done on Jefferson's estate 
was done by slaves, don't you? And that he slept with the women among them?


-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#511784 — Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu.

On Fri, 07 Aug 2015 15:03:35 -0500, Odd Bodkin wrote:

> 
> Do you grow your own vegetables, Fabian? Do you slaughter animals that 
> you have raised on your own property, or do you hunt for all your meat?
> 

Oh c'mon.  You can do better than that.

One cannot transpose the Jeffersonian ideal literally onto today's
society.  It must be adapted to suit the modern climate.

In today's world the Jeffersonian ideal would, among many other things,
correspond closely with disallowing ones life to be expropriated by
corporate interests, especially in the area of personal computing.

Being independent does not mean growing ones own food.  But it does
require the attainment of enough knowledge and expertise to alleviate
the total reliance on aloof and exploitative agencies.

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#511790 — Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu.

On 8/7/2015 3:23 PM, Fabian Russell wrote:
> On Fri, 07 Aug 2015 15:03:35 -0500, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>
>>
>> Do you grow your own vegetables, Fabian? Do you slaughter animals that
>> you have raised on your own property, or do you hunt for all your meat?
>>
>
> Oh c'mon.  You can do better than that.
>
> One cannot transpose the Jeffersonian ideal literally onto today's
> society.  It must be adapted to suit the modern climate.
>
> In today's world the Jeffersonian ideal would, among many other things,
> correspond closely with disallowing ones life to be expropriated by
> corporate interests, especially in the area of personal computing.

Oh, now, see? You're cherry-picking. You're saying that freedom from 
corporate interest is of paramount concern in your personal area of 
interest -- computing -- but doesn't amount to a hill of beans when it 
comes to industrial farming, livestock management, and grocery stores. 
And heck, who cares if housing is controlled by corporate builders, 
realtors, and banking lenders? And who cares about massive automobile 
makers and their parts and raw materials supply chains including big 
steel and plastics? But COMPUTER software.... not THAT'S important!

So you're translating Jefferson's nation of yeoman farmers into 
Russell's nation of yeoman machine language programmers? And you think 
he'd support you on that? And you're serious about that?

>
> Being independent does not mean growing ones own food.  But it does
> require the attainment of enough knowledge and expertise to alleviate
> the total reliance on aloof and exploitative agencies.
>

I think you take a rather extreme, broadly stated position and then do 
not live according to it, except in one little niche area that 
personally appeals to you. This is known as hypocrisy, FYI. And for 
those who just don't see it, it's also called being delusional.

But there's little point banging on your mental state. It's clear you 
pay the price for that in terms of poverty, job marketability, and lack 
of social life.


-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#511794 — Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu.

On Fri, 07 Aug 2015 15:45:25 -0500, Odd Bodkin wrote:

>>
>> In today's world the Jeffersonian ideal would, among many other things,
>> correspond closely with disallowing ones life to be expropriated by
>> corporate interests, especially in the area of personal computing.
> 
> You're saying that freedom from 
> corporate interest is of paramount concern in your personal area of 
> interest -- computing -- but doesn't amount to a hill of beans when it 
> comes to industrial farming, livestock management, and grocery stores.
> ...

You really should read more carefully.  You apparently missed the
phrase "among many other things" which is intended to include all
those things which you you falsely claim I have excluded.

These corps need to be kept honest, and a highly informed consumer,
which you so wantonly dismiss, is the best way of doing that.

 
 
> 
> I think you take a rather extreme, broadly stated position and then do 
> not live according to it,
>

The fault is not mine if the observer fails to properly observe.

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#511797 — Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu.

On 8/7/2015 4:05 PM, Fabian Russell wrote:
> On Fri, 07 Aug 2015 15:45:25 -0500, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>
>>>
>>> In today's world the Jeffersonian ideal would, among many other things,
>>> correspond closely with disallowing ones life to be expropriated by
>>> corporate interests, especially in the area of personal computing.
>>
>> You're saying that freedom from
>> corporate interest is of paramount concern in your personal area of
>> interest -- computing -- but doesn't amount to a hill of beans when it
>> comes to industrial farming, livestock management, and grocery stores.
>> ...
>
> You really should read more carefully.  You apparently missed the
> phrase "among many other things" which is intended to include all
> those things which you you falsely claim I have excluded.
>
> These corps need to be kept honest, and a highly informed consumer,
> which you so wantonly dismiss, is the best way of doing that.

And the best way to be informed about the food you eat is to grow your 
own food. Just to keep the industrial agriculture, livestock management, 
food preparation, and grocery store corporations honest, you see.

Likewise, the best way to be informed about the housing where you reside 
is to build it yourself. Just to keep the building corporations, realty 
companies, and lending and banking institutions honest.

So practice what you preach.

>
>
>
>>
>> I think you take a rather extreme, broadly stated position and then do
>> not live according to it,
>>
>
> The fault is not mine if the observer fails to properly observe.
>


-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#511816 — Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu.

"Fabian Russell" <root@localhost.localdomain> the Fagie
who also posts as <whataguy@zen.info> the criminal swine 
"Bo Dai", which is an acronym for "Brainless Old Dreck And
Imbecile" and whose real name is Bodaiski, a US Jew, aka 
"Joe Genteel" <root@localhost.localdomain> aka 
Frank, the Crank Colessi, which means in Sicilian Slang 
"Little Asshole" , etc, under a "new nym -- but same old idiot", 
who got fired over his loud-mouthing and his total lack of 
productivity, is still unemployed & on welfare... etc, etc...
> 
< snip kike Fagie's barking & Odd Bodkin's b'oinking wrote:
> 
Fagie Bodaiski wrote:
> The fault is not mine if the observer fails to properly observe.
>
hanson wrote
Fagie Bodaiski, you splendid kike, yes it is YOUR fault.
Nobody but YOU failed to properly observe, which is what 
got you fired. Stop you denials!
Thanks for the laughs though... ahahahahahanson

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#511769 — Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu.

On 8/7/2015 12:35 PM, Fabian Russell wrote:
> One has to have a damned good income to rely on repair services.
> Auto repair has become so expensive that the government in my state
> (and perhaps many other states) has made special grants available
> to allow low income people to fix their cars.
>
> Regarding restaurant or prepared food, one would have to be a total
> idiot to partake of that inferior fare.  A lack of healthy ingredients
> with way too much salt and fats characterizes virtually all food
> that is not prepared in the home kitchen
>
> In fact, considering the poor technical competence of the majority
> of repair and service establishments, the only way to insure high
> quality of workmanship is to do it yourself.

And yet I'm going to guess that you are not fully qualified to perform 
most of those services well.

I'm further going to guess that, perhaps through some of your personal 
choices, it's not so much that you feel qualified to do these things 
well yourself, but that you can't afford to do otherwise. I've met 
plenty of people like this. Did you build your own kitchen table? What 
about the chair you use to sit at your computer? Who built that?

-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#511770 — Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu.

On 8/7/2015 12:35 PM, Fabian Russell wrote:
>> >
>> >Neither is better than the other. They are just DIFFERENT.
>> >
> No.  Do-it-yourself is far better, both for the individual and,
> by breeding a more informed and sophisticated citizen, for the
> betterment of society in the long run.
>

Well, you see, that's your egotism talking.

-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#511823 — Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu.

On 7 Aug 2015 17:35:47 GMT, Fabian Russell
<root@localhost.localdomain> wrote:

[...]

>> He's completely fine having someone else do work for him. These are
>> the same people who call repairmen, even though in some of the cases
>> they could have fixed it themselves, because sometimes it's just not
>> worth the trouble or the  time. These people enjoy eating out or bringing
>> home take-out food. They like modern appliances, up-to-date electronics,
>> and low-mileage cars that don't require a lot of maintenance.
>>
>
>One has to have a damned good income to rely on repair services.

     I'm able to pay my bills on time.

>Auto repair has become so expensive that the government in my state
>(and perhaps many other states) has made special grants available
>to allow low income people to fix their cars.
>

     I've been fortunate in that I haven't had anything major go wrong
with any vehicle I've owned for the past 20+ years. As such, I've not
needed to worry about the cost of repairs.
     If the need for major work should come up, I'll pay the price to
have someone else do the work.

>Regarding restaurant or prepared food, one would have to be a total
>idiot to partake of that inferior fare.  A lack of healthy ingredients
>with way too much salt and fats characterizes virtually all food
>that is not prepared in the home kitchen  
>

     I, along with the rest of my family, go out to eat on occasion.
And I'm healthier than I've been since my childhood.
     To be fair, most of the 90's was spent living off of fast food,
Doritos and Mountain Dew or Coke-a-cola. Not what most would consider
a healthy diet.

>In fact, considering the poor technical competence of the majority
>of repair and service establishments, the only way to insure high
>quality of workmanship is to do it yourself.

     I've yet to experience a problem with any repairs I've needed
done. Fortunately, I've rarely needed any major home repair. And aside
from the rare flat tire (should I mention I called AAA for them?),
I've not had any major vehicle repair.
     My wife, however, was in an accident about 10 years ago. The
damage was cosmetic, but I freely admit repairing it was, and is,
beyond either of our abilities.

> 
>> Neither is better than the other. They are just DIFFERENT.
>>
>
>No.  Do-it-yourself is far better, both for the individual and,
>by breeding a more informed and sophisticated citizen, for the
>betterment of society in the long run.

     You're a do-it-yourself kind of person. And that's fine. I'm not.
I'm willing to pay someone else to do stuff. And that's just as fine.

-- 
Shill #3. Current Psychotronic World Dominator and FEMA camp
counselor

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#511829 — Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu.

"K Wills (Shill #3)" <compuelf@gmail.com> wrote
> Fagie Bodaiski aka Fabian Russell > <root@localhost.localdomain> wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
"K Wills (Shill #3)" wrote: 
> Fagie, You're a do-it-yourself kind of person. And that's fine. I'm not.
> I'm willing to pay someone else to do stuff. And that's just as fine.
> 
hanson wrote:
Very much so, K Wills. You are able to pay someone else to do stuff'
because you have the means to do that, but...
>
"Fabian Russell" <root@localhost.localdomain> the Fagie
who also posts as <whataguy@zen.info> the criminal swine 
"Bo Dai", which is an acronym for "Brainless Old Dreck And
Imbecile" and whose real name is Bodaiski, a US Jew, aka 
"Joe Genteel" <root@localhost.localdomain> aka 
Frank, the Crank Colessi, which means in Sicilian Slang 
"Little Asshole" , etc, under a "new nym -- but same old idiot", 
who got fired over his loud-mouthing and his total lack of 
productivity, is still unemployed & on welfare... etc, etc...
>
and hence Fagie Bodaiski must do his own schlepping. Pity

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#511822 — Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu.

On Fri, 07 Aug 2015 08:42:32 -0500, Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On 8/7/2015 7:59 AM, K Wills (Shill #3) wrote:
>> On 6 Aug 2015 17:48:22 GMT, Fabian Russell
>> <root@localhost.localdomain> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 06 Aug 2015 04:18:43 -0500, K Wills (Shill #3) wrote:
>>>
>>>>       Google recently announced that it's dropping its Google +
>>>> requirements for its products. I don't like it. I like the convenience
>>>> of having everything attached to my G+.
>>>
>>> You are a part of the godammned problem.
>>>
>>> Why do you need Google at all?
>>
>>       I don't *need* it. But I do like it.
>>
>>> What's the matter, retard, can't you
>>> do anything for yourself?
>>
>>       Dale Carnegie. Look into it.
>>
>>> You pay money ($$$) to an ISP for Internet access.  As part of that
>>> deal you get lots of stuff.
>>
>>       I sure do.
>>
>>> You get several email accounts.
>>
>>       Yep. I think 10, but I would have to look to be certain. I only
>> need one, so it's not really important to me.
>>
>>> You get large amounts of storage space (100's of megabytes if not gigabytes).
>>
>>       With the ISP's cloud, I have five gigs of storage available.
>>       But here's the thing. What happens when I change ISPs? I'll
>> either lose it all, or I'll have to download it all and put it
>> somewhere else.
>>       I have most of my stuff on Google's cloud. No matter what ISP I
>> use, it will be there. At least for the foreseeable future. And I like
>> that.
>>
>>> With all that you can create your own personal web site, upload
>>> all your images, and easily link with your friends/associates.
>>
>>       I sure can.
>>       You know what? I can share links to items on Google Cloud also.
>>
>>> But do you do it?
>>
>>       I use my ISP's E-mail. It's not listed with my Usenet posts, but
>> I've not listed an ISP E-mail address with Usenet posts for about 15
>> years. I was using my Yahoo E-mail for Usenet posts until sometime in
>> 2004. I've listed my Gmail address since then.
>>       I have some items on my ISP's cloud. Not much, but some. It's
>> stuff that I'd like to keep, but wouldn't be upset if it were lost.
>>       I don't have a personal web page anywhere.
>>
>>> No, retard, you rely on Google and other parties
>>> to do it for you.  As a result of the "no free lunch" reality,
>>> this reliance engenders the problems of privacy loss that effects
>>> us all today.
>>
>>       Should I mention how much I use Facebook, and Twitter? :)
>>       I accept any lose of privacy that comes with using Google, et al.
>> It was, and is, *my* choice. You have the choice not to use any of
>> Google's services if you don't want to. Your post certainly suggests
>> you don't want to. And that is fine.
>>
>>> All this trouble is caused by your stupidity, laziness, and intransigence
>>> to just DO IT YOURSELF.
>>
>>       But there is no trouble from my point of view. This is where your
>> claim falls apart.
>>
>>> If you'd just DO IT YOURSELF these issues would disappear overnight.
>>
>>       Whereas there are no issues, they can't disappear. That which
>> does not actually exist can't disappear.
>>
>>> C'mon, idiot, DO IT YOURSELF.
>>
>>       How low is your self esteem that you call me, someone you just
>> proved is your intellectual superior, a retard and idiot?
>>       This is a serious question.
>
>And this exemplifies the clash I talked about earlier.
>
>"Fabian" is the kind of person who would rather work with kit parts, 
>spending a lot of time and effort himself to put his digital environment 
>together. He then doesn't mind if he has to do the work over again, 
>because to him doing the work HIMSELF is the enjoyable part. 

     Nothing wrong with that.

>He simply 
>doesn't understand why anybody wouldn't want to do the work HIMSELF. 

     That's sad.

>These are the same people who never take their car to a mechanic, who do 
>all their own home repairs, who never buy prepared foods and rarely go 
>to restaurants. They favor older cars, older computers, older 
>appliances, because they enjoy the old-school tinkering. Because 
>SELF-RELIANCE is premium.
>

     And that's fine. 

>K Wills is the kind of person who is looking for convenience and 
>portability, and who wants to spend his time doing things other than 
>maintaining his own digital environment. He sees digital services as a 
>commodity utility, rather than a hobby kit. He's completely fine having 
>someone else do work for him. These are the same people who call 
>repairmen, even though in some of the cases they could have fixed it 
>themselves, because sometimes it's just not worth the trouble or the 
>time. These people enjoy eating out or bringing home take-out food. They 
>like modern appliances, up-to-date electronics, and low-mileage cars 
>that don't require a lot of maintenance. Because the support of a 
>service-oriented community is premium.
>
>Neither is better than the other. They are just DIFFERENT.

     Exactly.

-- 
Shill #3. Current Psychotronic World Dominator and FEMA camp
counselor

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#511831 — Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu.

On Fri, 07 Aug 2015 18:17:58 -0500, K Wills (Shill #3) wrote:

> 
>      Nothing wrong with that.
> 
>      And that's fine. 
> 
>      Exactly.
>

Well, it's good to know that everything is just fine, correct, and
proper.

It's important to maintain an oblivious attitude as the world slowly
enters into a stagnant, uncreative, and monolithic hell.

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#511835 — Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu.

"Fabian Russell" <root@localhost.localdomain> the Fagie
who also posts as <whataguy@zen.info> the criminal swine 
"Bo Dai", which is an acronym for "Brainless Old Dreck And
Imbecile" and whose real name is Bodaiski, a US Jew, aka 
"Joe Genteel" <root@localhost.localdomain> aka 
Frank, the Crank Colessi, which means in Sicilian Slang 
"Little Asshole" , etc, under a "new nym -- but same old idiot", 
who got fired over his loud-mouthing and his total lack of 
productivity, is still unemployed & on welfare... etc, etc...
now he wrote:
>
> It's important to maintain an oblivious attitude as the world slowly
> enters into a stagnant, uncreative, and monolithic hell.
>
hanson wrote:
Fagie Bodaiski, it was that "oblivious attitude" of yours 
that got you fired. Pity. Any new job prospects, -offers? ...
Bodaiski, try to get a job in China as Bo dai who is one 
of your many schizophrenic apparitions.... ahahahaha.....

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#511859 — Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu.

On 8 Aug 2015 01:01:25 GMT, Fabian Russell
<root@localhost.localdomain> wrote:

>On Fri, 07 Aug 2015 18:17:58 -0500, K Wills (Shill #3) wrote:
>
>> 
>>      Nothing wrong with that.
>> 
>>      And that's fine. 
>> 
>>      Exactly.
>>
>
>Well, it's good to know that everything is just fine, correct, and
>proper.
>

     Yes, it is.

>It's important to maintain an oblivious attitude as the world slowly
>enters into a stagnant, uncreative, and monolithic hell.

     It's very fortunate that this is not happening.

-- 
Shill #3. Current Psychotronic World Dominator and FEMA camp
counselor

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#511471 — Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu.

Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 8/5/15 8:24 AM, HVAC wrote:
>> I'm all in. I give Google, etc, total access to every art of my public
>> life. I actually pity the poor soul that has to monitor me. The tedium,
>> the incessant use of tautologies and catchphrases...Even my diet is
>> boring. And many people would find spending 10-12 hours a day on a boat
>> fishing as not very exciting. The exciting parts of my life are shielded
>> from their view by dint of the fact that there are none.
>   It's all done by algorithms. You are identified buy your computer,
>   habits, purchases, everything you have ever searched for or looked
>   at, ISPs, IP addresses, etc.
>   One thing I like about Apple is the encryption of mobile devices,
>   messages, FaceTime calls and banking transactions. Apple makes most
>   of its money selling hardware. Whereas Google, Facebook and some
>   make their money advertizing to you and selling your data.
>   But, don't take my word for it -- research it for yourself, just in
>   case you think I harbor any biases.  :-)

One problem is the security of the information various central
collecting points have or dont have.

There's a theorem about covert channels that essentially says unless
a system is practically unuseable it may (i.e. can not be
guaranteed not to) leak.

The classic case is 2 programms running on shared hardware.
By hogging a shared resource one program can send data to
the other via the wait time the other needs to get the resource.

Unless the resource is allocated randomly or is otherwise
not influenced by load (e.g. equal quanta of sharing to all users
regardless of their needs) the information leak will continue.

Other considerations show this can also apply to passive eavesdropping
by B as wel as deliberate messaging from A->B.

Anyway... all this goes to warn that if Google keeps a stack of info on
you then unless very very tight restrictions apply they can't absolutely
guarantee any Tom, Dick or Rusty will be able to get ahold of it
and do what they want with it.

Now lemme give you a hypothetical example. Hypothetical because I
know some places closed this loophole.

When you visit a website, the page can get ahold of any cookies
you keep. This is all meant to be sandboxed so there is no way
to get that cookie info back to the server or anywhere else.

But the covert channels theory says there may be ways and in some cases
there used to be and I'm not saying if they still are but just
remember your covert channel theory. :)

This cookie info is supposed to be used for a company to plant data in
its clients for later use by company services that run on client machines.
But some grey hat web pages "used to" sometimes run man-in-the-middle things
and use the cookies of other companies to gain accerss to info
they should not be able to get.

E.g. a web page gets ahold of your Company X cookie planted there by
a nice company X ap some geek calls up every few minutes.
Company X is not a complete idiot about security so said cookie is
mostly encoded. But via various means the web page gets that cookie back to
its server and the server while said geek is on the line starts
fetching pages from company X and feeding them maybe in disguise
back to the geek who thinks he's playing with something authorised
by company X now and types stuff accordingly with that unfriendly server 
watching everything.

This gives me the heebee jeebees everytime I hit a Paypal button.


Another less evil use is simply to take that cookie and give it
to some nice company X server and use it to ID the person that cookie
belongs to because the comapny X server says sommin like "what is
your password Mr Smith of 10 Bayview Rd, Ca, welcome back from last
Monday, and you have 10 new messages. Do you want to search for
more pictures of kittens?".

I'm not saying I know anyone that used to do such sneaky things but it sure is
great to have your own web server and have people visit it.

--
[From the Project Much files:]
Everything you warmballers say is a lie. We refute each and every one 
with references and you all pretend you've heard nothing.  And then 
simply dismiss anyone with proof as a "denier".
-- Ben Jacoby aka benj, 04/08/2015 08:23

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#511354 — Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu.

On Wed, 05 Aug 2015 08:09:57 -0500, Odd Bodkin wrote:

> So the makers of personal technology are catering to the needs 
> of their market.
> 

So it would seem.

But the rise of that pseudo-science known as "data mining" has transformed
personal information into a commodity.  Gullible businesses everywhere are
always seeking some magical tool to increase profits and the software
companies are more than willing to offer their pseudo-product, known
as targeted advertising, to the highest bidder.

The DA can also be seen as just another way to acquire this salable
information.

The objection is that this resource of information is being acquired
at no cost to the software companies.  The user is not being compensated
for his relinquishment of personal data.  It's like the free advertising
obtained by some businesses when they install, without the owners permission,
license plate frames containing a commercial message on someones automobile.
Through this seemingly innocent practice, a particular business can
have its name broadcast throughout a given area at no cost to them.

The users, therefore, are being exploited more than they are being served.
In many ways, these useful tools such as DA's are no different than
root kits or malware.

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#511370 — Re: Replacing Win10's Start Menu.

On 8/5/2015 8:51 AM, Fabian Russell wrote:
> On Wed, 05 Aug 2015 08:09:57 -0500, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>
>> So the makers of personal technology are catering to the needs
>> of their market.
>>
>
> So it would seem.
>
> But the rise of that pseudo-science known as "data mining" has transformed
> personal information into a commodity.  Gullible businesses everywhere are
> always seeking some magical tool to increase profits and the software
> companies are more than willing to offer their pseudo-product, known
> as targeted advertising, to the highest bidder.
>
> The DA can also be seen as just another way to acquire this salable
> information.
>
> The objection is that this resource of information is being acquired
> at no cost to the software companies.  The user is not being compensated
> for his relinquishment of personal data.  It's like the free advertising
> obtained by some businesses when they install, without the owners permission,
> license plate frames containing a commercial message on someones automobile.
> Through this seemingly innocent practice, a particular business can
> have its name broadcast throughout a given area at no cost to them.
>
> The users, therefore, are being exploited more than they are being served.
> In many ways, these useful tools such as DA's are no different than
> root kits or malware.
>

You're absolutely right the user is not being compensated for access to 
personal data. This is precisely the business model for facebook, 
Google, and now Microsoft. The revenue stream for those providers is 
based almost entirely on targeted advertizing. In exchange for the 
information you WILLINGLY provide by subscribing to their service, they 
do not charge you for the service. GMail, Google Maps, basic Google 
Drive, Google Doc apps, YouTube, and all the other Google services are 
free in the sense that you don't fork over money. You fork over 
information about you, and other companies pay Google for the 
information you've forked over.

Microsoft has joined that model with Windows 10. You will never pay for 
a Windows operating system again in your lifetime. It will be upgraded 
regularly for free. There will no longer be a significant revenue stream 
associated with the sale of Windows 10. In exchange, you are forking 
over information that Windows 10 is empowered to collect, and you agree 
to it by clicking Agree on the Terms of Use.

-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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