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Groups > sci.physics > #630096 > unrolled thread

There is no black hole in Sgr A *

Started byEnes Richard <pies_na_teorie@vp.pl>
First post2017-04-22 07:42 -0700
Last post2017-04-24 08:07 -0700
Articles 20 on this page of 101 — 9 participants

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  There is no black hole in Sgr A * Enes Richard <pies_na_teorie@vp.pl> - 2017-04-22 07:42 -0700
    There is no black hole in Sgr A * john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-04-22 08:22 -0700
      Re: There is no black hole in Sgr A * Enes Richard <pies_na_teorie@vp.pl> - 2017-04-22 11:49 -0700
      Re: There is no black hole in Sgr A * pnalsing@gmail.com - 2017-04-22 12:43 -0700
      There is no black hole in Sgr A * HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2017-04-23 10:06 -0700
        Re: There is no black hole in Sgr A * Enes Richard <pies_na_teorie@vp.pl> - 2017-04-23 12:39 -0700
          Re: There is no black hole in Sgr A * pnalsing@gmail.com - 2017-04-23 13:05 -0700
            Re: There is no black hole in Sgr A * Enes Richard <pies_na_teorie@vp.pl> - 2017-04-23 13:29 -0700
              Re: There is no black hole in Sgr A * pnalsing@gmail.com - 2017-04-23 13:50 -0700
                Re: There is no black hole in Sgr A * Enes Richard <pies_na_teorie@vp.pl> - 2017-04-23 14:29 -0700
                  Re: There is no black hole in Sgr A * pnalsing@gmail.com - 2017-04-23 16:30 -0700
                    Re: There is no black hole in Sgr A * Enes Richard <pies_na_teorie@vp.pl> - 2017-04-24 02:12 -0700
                      Re: There is no black hole in Sgr A * Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2017-04-24 09:01 -0700
                        Re: There is no black hole in Sgr A * Enes Richard <pies_na_teorie@vp.pl> - 2017-04-24 13:17 -0700
                          Re: There is no black hole in Sgr A * Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2017-04-25 14:57 -0700
                            Re: There is no black hole in Sgr A * Enes Richard <pies_na_teorie@vp.pl> - 2017-04-26 12:42 -0700
                              Re: There is no black hole in Sgr A * john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-04-26 13:15 -0700
                                Re: There is no black hole in Sgr A * Enes Richard <pies_na_teorie@vp.pl> - 2017-04-27 05:53 -0700
                                  Re: There is no black hole in Sgr A * Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2017-04-27 09:47 -0700
                                    Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore. Enes Richard <pies_na_teorie@vp.pl> - 2017-05-08 13:56 -0700
                                    Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore. Double-A <double-a3@hush.com> - 2017-05-08 15:37 -0700
                                      Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-05-08 20:03 -0700
                                        Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore. pnalsing@gmail.com - 2017-05-08 20:11 -0700
                                          Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-05-09 06:18 -0700
                                            Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-09 08:27 -0500
                                              Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-05-09 06:32 -0700
                                                Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore. pnalsing@gmail.com - 2017-05-09 06:34 -0700
                                                Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-17 13:24 -0500
                                                  Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-05-17 15:19 -0700
                                                    Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-18 08:51 -0500
                                                      Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-05-18 08:21 -0700
                                                        Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-05-18 08:30 -0700
                                                          Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-05-18 08:33 -0700
                                                        Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-18 12:08 -0500
                                                          Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-05-18 10:55 -0700
                                                            Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-18 13:14 -0500
                                            Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore. pnalsing@gmail.com - 2017-05-09 06:32 -0700
                                              Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-05-09 06:36 -0700
                                                Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-09 09:11 -0500
                                                  Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-05-09 07:31 -0700
                                                    Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore. pnalsing@gmail.com - 2017-05-09 08:37 -0700
                                                    Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-09 15:21 -0500
                                                      Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-05-09 13:43 -0700
                                                        Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore. pnalsing@gmail.com - 2017-05-09 14:05 -0700
                                                          Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-05-09 14:24 -0700
                                                            Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-09 16:45 -0500
                                                              Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-05-09 15:22 -0700
                                                                Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore. pnalsing@gmail.com - 2017-05-09 15:36 -0700
                                                                Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore. Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 05:26 -0700
                                                                  Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 08:14 -0700
                                                                    Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore. Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 10:21 -0700
                                                                      Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 10:52 -0700
                                                                        Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore. Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2017-05-11 10:57 -0700
                                                                          Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-05-11 13:44 -0700
                                                                            Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-05-12 01:08 +0000
                                                                              Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-05-12 05:24 -0700
                                                                                Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-05-12 16:27 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-05-13 05:44 -0700
                                                                                    Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-05-13 14:24 +0000
                                                                                Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore. HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2017-05-13 06:54 -0700
                                                            Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore. pnalsing@gmail.com - 2017-05-09 15:33 -0700
                                                              Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-05-09 15:37 -0700
                                                                Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore. pnalsing@gmail.com - 2017-05-09 15:51 -0700
                                                                Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-05-09 15:58 -0700
                                                                  Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore. pnalsing@gmail.com - 2017-05-09 16:34 -0700
                                                                    Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-05-09 19:31 -0700
                                                                      Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-05-10 17:17 +0000
                                                                Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore. Enes Richard <pies_na_teorie@vp.pl> - 2017-05-10 03:57 -0700
                                                        Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-09 16:43 -0500
                                        Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore. Double-A <double-a3@hush.com> - 2017-05-09 14:21 -0700
                                        Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-05-13 14:02 +0000
                                  Re: There is no black hole in Sgr A * john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-04-27 10:59 -0700
                                    Re: There is no black hole in Sgr A * moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-04-28 02:15 +0000
                                      Re: There is no black hole in Sgr A * john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-04-28 07:21 -0700
                                        Re: There is no black hole in Sgr A * moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-04-28 16:09 +0000
                                          Re: There is no black hole in Sgr A * john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-04-28 16:03 -0700
                                            Re: There is no black hole in Sgr A * moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-04-29 06:06 +0000
                                              Re: There is no black hole in Sgr A * john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-04-29 05:50 -0700
                                                Re: There is no black hole in Sgr A * moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-04-29 18:52 +0000
                                                  Re: There is no black hole in Sgr A * john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-04-30 06:18 -0700
                                                    Re: There is no black hole in Sgr A * john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-04-30 06:28 -0700
                                                      Re: There is no black hole in Sgr A * moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-05-01 02:58 +0000
                                                      Re: There is no black hole in Sgr A * Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-01 08:33 -0500
                                                        Re: There is no black hole in Sgr A * john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-05-07 20:23 -0700
                                                          Re: There is no black hole in Sgr A * HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2017-05-08 06:17 -0700
                                                          Re: There is no black hole in Sgr A * Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-08 08:40 -0500
                                                            Re: There is no black hole in Sgr A * john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-05-08 09:53 -0700
                                                              Re: There is no black hole in Sgr A * Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-08 12:07 -0500
                                                    Re: There is no black hole in Sgr A * moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-05-01 02:55 +0000
                                    Re: There is no black hole in Sgr A * Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-04-29 10:23 -0500
                                      Re: There is no black hole in Sgr A * john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-04-29 08:28 -0700
                                        Re: There is no black hole in Sgr A * Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-04-29 10:31 -0500
                                        Re: There is no black hole in Sgr A * moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-04-29 17:40 +0000
                              Re: There is no black hole in Sgr A * john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-04-26 13:19 -0700
                              Re: There is no black hole in Sgr A * Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2017-04-27 09:18 -0700
                            Re: There is no black hole in Sgr A * Enes Richard <pies_na_teorie@vp.pl> - 2017-04-26 13:39 -0700
                              Re: There is no black hole in Sgr A * Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2017-04-27 09:22 -0700
                                Re: There is no black hole in Sgr A * Enes Richard <pies_na_teorie@vp.pl> - 2017-04-28 00:52 -0700
                    Re: There is no black hole in Sgr A * Enes Richard <pies_na_teorie@vp.pl> - 2017-04-24 03:47 -0700
        Re: There is no black hole in Sgr A * benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2017-04-24 00:47 -0400
          Re: There is no black hole in Sgr A * Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2017-04-24 08:07 -0700

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#632702 — Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore.

Frompnalsing@gmail.com
Date2017-05-09 15:33 -0700
SubjectRe: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore.
Message-ID<aabbcc01-3df6-40e0-805e-f926071d0af9@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#632655
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 2:24:18 PM UTC-7, john wrote:
> pnal 
> "- show quoted text -
> You did not say stars, you said 'stardust'... and so now you say 'stars'... fine... but I asked for SPECIFIC details. How do stars produce atoms, John? It is like pulling teeth with you. There is no shame if you don't know, John, but this is very basic first-year physics/astronomy, and if you can't easily explain this without the need to research it first, well, you have no business pontificating here about your vast physics knowledge, which, as far as I can see, is essentially nonexistent. 
> 
> Understand beforehand that your answer, assuming you get it even partially correct, will generate a bunch of follow-up questions, which will get progressively more difficult... there is really no place to hide, either you know this stuff or you don't... "
> 
> Where does stardust come from?
> Fusion.

Fusion. You call this being specific? A one-word answer? What causes the fusion to begin with, John? What material is being fused? And what material is it being fused into? Is there fusion in all stars, John? What is the by-product of fusion, John, and why is it important?
 
> You answer me this: AGNs have two
> oppositely-moving jets. At right angles to
> their galactic discs.

Why are you changing the subject, John. The whole AGN discussion is *way* more complicated than the 'atoms in your body source' discussion, John, and you can't run until you can walk, and you can't walk until you can crawl, and when it comes to physics/astronomy, John, you can't even turn over yet, let alone sit up! 
 
> Why right angles?
> Any difference between the jets?
> Understand this: those events are admitted
> by physicists to be "poorly-understood".
> What does "poorly-understood " mean to you?

Poorly understood means that there is much speculation being bandied about and there is no one theory that dominates... yet. The folks who are doing research in this area are *way* further down the road than either you or I, and neither one of us has any business pushing our own pet theories concerning AGNs, we don't stand a chance of getting it right. All we can do is study what the Big Boys are making available to us and perhaps start a dialogue as to which one seems to be 'in the lead' in our own humble opinions... and that's about it. Locating interesting articles about AGNs is not all that hard and they are quite educational, even if we know before reading them that they are mostly just speculation at this point in time.

Try reading a few of these...

https://www.one-tab.com/page/GufZ1eB5TuCsOBMwAI6epA

... some are easy, some are more difficult, all are interesting in their own way, and you should learn something that you don't already know, just like virtually everyone here, for no one knows it all...

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#632704 — Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore.

Fromjohn <johnsefton288@gmail.com>
Date2017-05-09 15:37 -0700
SubjectRe: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore.
Message-ID<30567e16-042f-48a2-aab1-e1c7557df9d8@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#632702
pnal
"  
> You answer me this: AGNs have two 
> oppositely-moving jets. At right angles to 
> their galactic discs. 

Why are you changing the subject, John. The whole AGN discussion is *way* more complicated than the 'atoms in your body source' discussion, John, and you can't run until you can walk, and you can't walk until you can crawl, and when it comes to physics/astronomy, John, you can't even turn over yet, let alone sit up! "

Jets produce new stars.

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#632707 — Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore.

Frompnalsing@gmail.com
Date2017-05-09 15:51 -0700
SubjectRe: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore.
Message-ID<84354f8f-19fa-4b63-a849-b5e8f38d41be@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#632704
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 3:37:17 PM UTC-7, john wrote:
> pnal
> "  
> > You answer me this: AGNs have two 
> > oppositely-moving jets. At right angles to 
> > their galactic discs. 
> 
> Why are you changing the subject, John. The whole AGN discussion is *way* more complicated than the 'atoms in your body source' discussion, John, and you can't run until you can walk, and you can't walk until you can crawl, and when it comes to physics/astronomy, John, you can't even turn over yet, let alone sit up! "
> 
> Jets produce new stars.

Says who? Just you, I'll bet, John, just you. 

I doubt very much that jets produce new stars 'directly', John, and I defy you to show any source that says otherwise. It makes no sense at all to anyone who has actually studied stellar evolution. Stars are formed in superhuge volumes of initially cold dust, John, which was just sitting there quietly, an environment that is vastly different than the environment in an AGN's jet, where material is moving along at relativistic speeds. What are you thinking?

This is *exactly* what I am referring to when I claim that you are 'making it up as you go along'. You really don't have a clue, and you never will if you refuse to read the research that has gone on and which continues to be performed daily by actual scientists.

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#632708 — Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore.

Fromjohn <johnsefton288@gmail.com>
Date2017-05-09 15:58 -0700
SubjectRe: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore.
Message-ID<ee872bd4-9891-4de0-9178-a571ac72090c@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#632704
pnal
No.
Magnetic fields in the form of 
poles at right angles 
were what I was looking for in order
to confirm my "galactic arms are like electrons
moving in a circle and should therefore produce
magnetic poles at right angles to their 
acceleration". This was confirmed for me
by VLA observations in 1987. The article
at that time said astronomers thought
magnetic fields in galaxies were much
different.
So, pnal- just,  No. ur wrong 

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#632710 — Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore.

Frompnalsing@gmail.com
Date2017-05-09 16:34 -0700
SubjectRe: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore.
Message-ID<88f8a768-5723-4c2e-a293-b44f9729c629@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#632708
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 3:58:34 PM UTC-7, john wrote:
> pnal
> No.
> Magnetic fields in the form of 
> poles at right angles 
> were what I was looking for in order
> to confirm my "galactic arms are like electrons
> moving in a circle and should therefore produce
> magnetic poles at right angles to their 
> acceleration". This was confirmed for me
> by VLA observations in 1987. The article
> at that time said astronomers thought
> magnetic fields in galaxies were much
> different.
> So, pnal- just,  No. ur wrong

John, I'm not wrong. 

You, on the other hand... well, there is simply too much wrong with what you have put forth, above, to even start a response.

"galactic arms are like electrons
> moving in a circle and should therefore produce
> magnetic poles at right angles to their 
> acceleration". 

Really? Once you start comparing galactic arms to electrons, well, you have certainly lost any chance at being taken seriously. Where do you get this crap? Show me even a single reference that says electrons move in a circle, if you can. Sheesh, you have some really bizarre things come out of your keyboard. Obviously, there is nothing I can do for you, you are determined to dance to your own drum.

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#632734 — Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore.

Fromjohn <johnsefton288@gmail.com>
Date2017-05-09 19:31 -0700
SubjectRe: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore.
Message-ID<2338c2ed-b40a-47e2-a78c-4a59ab873c04@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#632710
Whatever. I was LOOKING for a
magnetic pole at right angles to
galactic discs- for whatever reason-
and in 1987 the VLA observed it.

They're doing better than that.They are
showing that spiral arms are contained 
within a helical magnetic field.
https://public.nrao.edu/news/galaxy-magnetic-field/

This confirms that the arms are STRUCTURED and
must move as a piece.

You knew all this.

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#632817 — Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore.

Frommoroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date2017-05-10 17:17 +0000
SubjectRe: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore.
Message-ID<oevhvb$ivd$2@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to#632734
john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> writes:

>Whatever. I was LOOKING for a
>magnetic pole at right angles to
>galactic discs- for whatever reason-
>and in 1987 the VLA observed it.

>They're doing better than that.They are
>showing that spiral arms are contained 
>within a helical magnetic field.
>https://public.nrao.edu/news/galaxy-magnetic-field/

>This confirms that the arms are STRUCTURED and
>must move as a piece.

How the hell did you ever come up with that crap?  Why would a magnetic field
confirm structure, and why would it force anything to move as a piece?
Besides, we already know that galactic arms don't move as a piece.

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#632774 — Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore.

FromEnes Richard <pies_na_teorie@vp.pl>
Date2017-05-10 03:57 -0700
SubjectRe: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore.
Message-ID<22347bf0-57c8-4379-942a-1d35f1252241@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#632704
W dniu środa, 10 maja 2017 00:37:17 UTC+2 użytkownik john napisał:
...
> Jets produce new stars.

Yes, primary stars are made up of jets, but not from those 
out of the middle of the galaxy and perpendicular to its 
equatorial plane.

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#632674 — Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore.

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2017-05-09 16:43 -0500
SubjectRe: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore.
Message-ID<oetd5o$1bp6$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#632633
On 5/9/17 3:43 PM, john wrote:
> Odd
> "
> So, John, when you were asked about where the atoms of your body came
> from, your answer was atoms. "
> No. It was stars.

Stardust was your answer. Stardust is made of atoms.

Your atoms come from the atoms of stars. True but that's like saying a 
Toyota import car comes from a car place in Japan. Doesn't tell you 
anything about where the atoms themselves came from does it?

> You don't read
> 


-- 
Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#632654 — Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore.

FromDouble-A <double-a3@hush.com>
Date2017-05-09 14:21 -0700
SubjectRe: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore.
Message-ID<12c0372f-0e48-4956-acaa-e06a5eeeecbd@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#632512
On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 8:03:49 PM UTC-7, john wrote:
> Matter doesn't collapse gravitationally.
> Gravity doesn't get strong enough.


The do keep saying it is the weakest force.

Double-A

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#633164 — Re: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore.

Frommoroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date2017-05-13 14:02 +0000
SubjectRe: Not even Stephen Hawking believes in (true) black/worm holes anymore.
Message-ID<of73lv$bd6$1@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to#632512
john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> writes:

>Matter doesn't collapse gravitationally.
>Gravity doesn't get strong enough.

No, John, that is very wrong.  Gravity follows the inverse square law and
that means the force is inversely proportional to the square of the 
distance.  And what that means is that when the distance is very, very
small, you are dividing by a very very very very small number, and that 
produces an enormously large number for the force.

Don't you understand simple math?

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#630910

Fromjohn <johnsefton288@gmail.com>
Date2017-04-27 10:59 -0700
Message-ID<419247c3-57ef-4398-b5c6-dd9a52204c7e@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#630873
Enes 
"It is highe time to change the definition of a black hole and to represent 
a geometric 3D model. In Reality there are no massive points and objects 
of infinite density. 

In Reality, the maximum density is the density of the electron / positron. 
The New Black Hole (NBH) is an object consisting of the basic components 
of the masses of which electrons and positrons are built. The shape at 
low self rotation is close to the ball when the rotation is increasing, 
it changes into a disk, and then into a torus. 

During change, constant (maximum) density is maintained! 

BTW: 
Using the new definition for the hypothetical black hole in Sgr A * 
(4 million Sm): 
- what is the shape? 
- what size? 
- what is the volume? "

What is the shape and volume of a whirlpool?
That's all BHs are; spinning sub-Space which
contains NO matter, because the spin
is too intense.

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#631010

Frommoroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date2017-04-28 02:15 +0000
Message-ID<odu8ke$1gt$1@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to#630910
john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> writes:

>That's all BHs are; spinning sub-Space which
>contains NO matter, because the spin
>is too intense.

How can there be spin if there isn't anything there to spin? That's really 
silly, even for you.

And what about non-rotating black holes?

Anyway, you can find the size and volume of black holes based on their
mass on the web.  Non-rotating black holes will have a spherical event
horizon, one with significant rotation is more complicated as there is an
inner and outer horizon.

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#631068

Fromjohn <johnsefton288@gmail.com>
Date2017-04-28 07:21 -0700
Message-ID<92b386d5-f96f-40ac-abc4-eaaf7c4035a5@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#631010
MM
"
How can there be spin if there isn't anything there to spin? That's really 
silly, even for you. 

And what about non-rotating black holes? 

Anyway, you can find the size and volume of black holes based on their 
mass on the web.  Non-rotating black holes will have a spherical event 
horizon, one with significant rotation is more complicated as there is an 
inner and outer horizon"
. Black Holes are Rotation of all the fractal layers
below this one. Matter from this one
precipitates out because of the spin.
Why can you not process information?
Are you a bot?

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#631080

Frommoroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date2017-04-28 16:09 +0000
Message-ID<odvpgi$jio$1@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to#631068
john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> writes:

>MM
>"
>How can there be spin if there isn't anything there to spin? That's really 
>silly, even for you. 

>And what about non-rotating black holes? 



>Why can you not process information?
>Are you a bot?

Sorry, but I don't understand kꙭkese.
Nor do I have a telepathic connection with you that could let me try to
understand crazy thoughts.  Which is probably a good thing, since my
brain would likely get fried.

Simply put, if there's nothing there, there's nothing to spin. Spin is just
a form of motion of matter, after all.

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#631161

Fromjohn <johnsefton288@gmail.com>
Date2017-04-28 16:03 -0700
Message-ID<89e383e1-9056-46dd-8ef8-4c1c3fd49d82@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#631080
MM
"

Simply put, if there's nothing there, there's nothing to spin. Spin is just 
a form of motion of matter, after all. "

You think if all the matter as we know it is
taken away there will be nothing?
Yet you defend DM?

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#631216

Frommoroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date2017-04-29 06:06 +0000
Message-ID<oe1ahg$1r5$2@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to#631161
john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> writes:

>MM
>"

>Simply put, if there's nothing there, there's nothing to spin. Spin is just 
>a form of motion of matter, after all. "

>You think if all the matter as we know it is
>taken away there will be nothing?
>Yet you defend DM?

You are more confused than I thought.  First you say there is no dark
matter (you never did offer a reason why not) and you say that no matter
could be in the nothing spinning, so there's nothing there spinning. Now
you suggest there's dark matter in there??

You never did answer "what about non-rotating black holes".

Also explain the orbits of stars that are orbiting SGR A*.  If there is
nothing there, why are the stars orbiting as if there were a couple 
million solar masses there????

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#631236

Fromjohn <johnsefton288@gmail.com>
Date2017-04-29 05:50 -0700
Message-ID<8e65db00-7361-4eef-a78b-780b5894547e@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#631216
MM
"You are more confused than I thought.  First you say there is no dark 
matter (you never d"
You are the confused one.
You insist in the existence of DM, but then
insist that in the absence of regular matter,
'there is nothing to spin'.
Which is it?
Is there DM which then could be spinning
or not?

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#631263

Frommoroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date2017-04-29 18:52 +0000
Message-ID<oe2ncg$4n7$1@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to#631236
john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> writes:

>MM
>"You are more confused than I thought.  First you say there is no dark 
>matter (you never d"
>You are the confused one.
>You insist in the existence of DM, but then
>insist that in the absence of regular matter,
>'there is nothing to spin'.
>Which is it?

Unlike you, the concept of "invisible heavy stuff" isn't baffling to me.
Even if it was, I'm willing to ask a 6 year old to explain "invisible
heavy stuff" to me.

Also, since one of the properties of dark matter is that it interacts
gravitationally only, so its "spin" won't affect anything else unless we
have extreme GR conditions.  (And what holds the dark matter into a
spinning object?  Gravity? So now we're back to black hole conditions)

>Is there DM which then could be spinning
>or not?

In a black hole it's just mass.  "Black holes have no hair."

>Is 
there DM which then could be spinning
>or not?

DM interacts gravitationally only so "spin" is irrelevant, other than to
beg the question what's holding it together instead of flying apart.

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#631359

Fromjohn <johnsefton288@gmail.com>
Date2017-04-30 06:18 -0700
Message-ID<1de7bf5c-ca3d-42e5-b56d-f8c45bcd49be@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#631263
MM

DM is fantasy.
You know it.
I know it.
Everyone knows it.

It's a red herring.
When the Ship of Physics hit galactic
rotation curves, it sank.

Purely to save face, physicists are pointing
OVER THERE!!!
Maybe the invisible heavy stuff did it?
Sure! Could be invisible heavy stuff!!

And you, MM, proclaim "INVISIBLE HEAVY STUFF!!!"
and if I don't, I'm a kook?


Really?

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