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Groups > sci.physics > #567701 > unrolled thread
| Started by | "Robert Clark" <rgregoryclark@gmSPAMBLOACKail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2016-04-03 12:52 -0400 |
| Last post | 2016-04-12 18:24 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 253 — 15 participants |
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Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon "Robert Clark" <rgregoryclark@gmSPAMBLOACKail.com> - 2016-04-03 12:52 -0400
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-03 17:07 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-04 15:20 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-04 18:35 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Double-A <double-a3@hush.com> - 2016-04-04 12:14 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 12:58 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Jack Ryan <mixmaster@remailer.cpunk.us> - 2016-04-05 03:50 -0400
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-05 18:20 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 16:14 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-04-05 18:47 -0500
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 00:00 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2016-04-07 06:10 -0400
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-07 18:51 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-04-08 14:23 -0500
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 13:25 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-04-09 09:57 -0500
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 10:20 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-06 00:28 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon "Robert Clark" <rgregoryclark@gmSPAMBLOACKail.com> - 2016-04-05 22:14 -0400
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-06 03:38 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 00:07 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2016-04-07 06:24 -0400
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-07 19:03 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-04-05 19:53 -0600
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-06 03:42 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-04-05 23:06 -0600
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-06 18:05 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 12:34 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2016-04-07 19:18 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-07 13:04 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2016-04-07 21:07 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 00:03 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2016-04-08 17:50 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 13:03 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2016-04-08 21:47 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 21:24 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2016-04-09 13:55 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-04-09 10:08 -0500
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 08:51 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 18:07 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 12:49 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 20:16 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 19:07 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-10 06:16 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 06:46 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-10 16:23 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 15:19 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-10 22:49 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 20:02 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 04:05 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 01:41 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 18:18 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 19:20 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2016-04-10 12:06 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 06:57 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2016-04-10 14:17 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 08:26 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2016-04-10 16:40 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 15:38 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2016-04-11 19:06 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 19:50 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 20:02 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-12 17:16 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 19:54 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-12 17:18 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-07 20:26 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-07 14:46 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-07 22:52 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-04-07 21:25 -0400
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-07 23:49 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-08 18:24 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 13:10 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-08 22:40 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 21:55 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 06:11 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 07:49 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 18:21 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 12:57 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 20:29 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 19:30 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-04-09 00:01 -0600
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Thomas Womack <twomack@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2016-04-09 09:21 +0100
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 18:24 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-09 15:49 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 09:01 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 14:22 -0400
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 18:26 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 10:45 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 19:08 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 13:22 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 20:41 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 19:50 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-06 17:39 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-06 18:08 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 12:36 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-07 19:06 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-07 12:59 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-07 20:28 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-07 23:52 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-08 18:26 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 13:14 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-08 22:42 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 21:57 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 06:14 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 07:52 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-04-09 10:09 -0500
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 18:31 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 13:00 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 20:34 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 19:42 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-07 15:55 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-07 19:14 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-09 14:54 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 18:36 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 13:00 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 20:36 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 19:44 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-10 06:19 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 06:47 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-04-09 18:17 -0600
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-10 00:37 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-10 16:50 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-10 17:13 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-11 16:41 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 18:21 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-12 15:48 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-12 17:21 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-05 17:42 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-05 18:32 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 15:09 -0400
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-04-05 18:54 -0500
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-04-05 19:57 -0600
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-06 17:56 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-06 18:35 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 15:43 -0400
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-06 20:08 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 16:35 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-06 23:49 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 19:28 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-07 03:51 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 22:06 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-07 06:17 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-07 12:32 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-07 20:33 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 00:01 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-08 18:32 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 13:16 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-08 22:52 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 21:59 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 06:18 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 07:57 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 18:45 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 13:05 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 20:54 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 20:01 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-10 16:42 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 16:12 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 01:10 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 20:22 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 06:09 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 07:36 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 18:26 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 19:24 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-12 17:24 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-07 04:43 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 12:51 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-06 22:06 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 17:11 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-07 04:30 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 23:31 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-07 19:56 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-07 14:16 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-07 22:34 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 01:06 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-08 18:48 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 13:18 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-08 22:59 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 22:00 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 06:19 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 08:00 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 18:49 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 13:05 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 20:57 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 20:05 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-10 16:44 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 16:14 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 01:12 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 20:23 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 06:14 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 07:38 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 18:29 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 19:25 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-12 17:26 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2016-04-08 20:29 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-08 23:05 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 04:42 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-07 16:20 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-07 20:09 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-07 14:26 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-07 22:43 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 01:22 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-08 18:51 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 13:19 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-08 23:12 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 05:49 -0400
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 06:26 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 08:05 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 18:54 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 13:10 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 21:03 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 20:11 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-10 06:23 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 06:50 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-10 16:49 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 16:16 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 01:14 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 20:26 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 06:16 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 07:40 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 18:30 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 19:27 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-12 17:27 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 06:55 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-10 16:59 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-04-07 21:40 -0500
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-09 15:29 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 19:02 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 13:20 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 21:14 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 20:20 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-10 17:07 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 17:37 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 01:29 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 20:44 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 06:35 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 08:11 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 19:05 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 19:51 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-12 18:08 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-10 17:22 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-10 17:56 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 17:44 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 01:30 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 20:46 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 05:21 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 01:43 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-11 16:48 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Rick Jones <rick.jones2@hpe.com> - 2016-04-11 18:52 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 19:08 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-12 15:53 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-12 18:23 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 19:12 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-12 18:24 +0000
Page 3 of 13 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3] 4 5 … 13 Next page →
| From | Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-09 12:49 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <44nigb5er9o47aeijas42bi6n1qpg5cmr6@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #569243 |
jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> And just how 'self sufficient' does a colony have to be in order to be
>> a 'colony'? Remember, we used to ship shirts to China to have them
>> laundered and still ship scrap (plastic and steel) there to get it
>> recycled and shipped back to us. Jimp the Chimp insists that it's not
>> a colony unless it is totally self-sufficient at a quality of life
>> similar to a rich suburb in Connecticut with a population of billions.
>> I think the bar is much lower both in quality of life and numbers; a
>> relatively small population (hundreds) that can manage survival
>> through an extended interruption in resupply is a 'colony' for me. My
>> definition is closer to the classical Earthbound definition, where
>> colonies failed due to interruptions in supplies from back home.
>
>There go those voices in your head again, space cadet.
>
Yeah, but the problem is one of those voices is you saying all sorts
of stupid shite.
--
"Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is
only stupid."
-- Heinrich Heine
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-09 20:16 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <kh4otc-q7g.ln1@mail.specsol.com> |
| In reply to | #569267 |
In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote: > jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: > >>In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> And just how 'self sufficient' does a colony have to be in order to be >>> a 'colony'? Remember, we used to ship shirts to China to have them >>> laundered and still ship scrap (plastic and steel) there to get it >>> recycled and shipped back to us. Jimp the Chimp insists that it's not >>> a colony unless it is totally self-sufficient at a quality of life >>> similar to a rich suburb in Connecticut with a population of billions. >>> I think the bar is much lower both in quality of life and numbers; a >>> relatively small population (hundreds) that can manage survival >>> through an extended interruption in resupply is a 'colony' for me. My >>> definition is closer to the classical Earthbound definition, where >>> colonies failed due to interruptions in supplies from back home. >> >>There go those voices in your head again, space cadet. >> > > Yeah, but the problem is one of those voices is you saying all sorts > of stupid shite. You mean stupid things like you can breath on Earth but not on Mars and that mothers put diapers on babbies long before Pampers were invented? You really bought in hard on that Rocket to the Moon ride at Disneyland, didn't you? -- Jim Pennino
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| From | Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-09 19:07 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <evcjgbdid9600hoqu0faea6vrn51704lnn@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #569284 |
jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote:
>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>
>>>In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> And just how 'self sufficient' does a colony have to be in order to be
>>>> a 'colony'? Remember, we used to ship shirts to China to have them
>>>> laundered and still ship scrap (plastic and steel) there to get it
>>>> recycled and shipped back to us. Jimp the Chimp insists that it's not
>>>> a colony unless it is totally self-sufficient at a quality of life
>>>> similar to a rich suburb in Connecticut with a population of billions.
>>>> I think the bar is much lower both in quality of life and numbers; a
>>>> relatively small population (hundreds) that can manage survival
>>>> through an extended interruption in resupply is a 'colony' for me. My
>>>> definition is closer to the classical Earthbound definition, where
>>>> colonies failed due to interruptions in supplies from back home.
>>>
>>>There go those voices in your head again, space cadet.
>>>
>>
>> Yeah, but the problem is one of those voices is you saying all sorts
>> of stupid shite.
>>
>
>You mean stupid things like you can breath on Earth but not on Mars
>and that mothers put diapers on babbies long before Pampers were invented?
>
So one of the items on your list is now 'cloth' or something similar.
You realize that most colonies weren't doing a lot of weaving of cloth
right away, right?
>
>You really bought in hard on that Rocket to the Moon ride at Disneyland,
>didn't you?
>
You really bought in hard on that Mr Toad's Wild Ride ride at
Disneyland, didn't you?
--
"Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the
truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong."
-- Thomas Jefferson
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-10 06:16 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <em7ptc-3mj.ln1@mail.specsol.com> |
| In reply to | #569336 |
In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote: > jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: > >>In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote: >>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >>> >>>>In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> And just how 'self sufficient' does a colony have to be in order to be >>>>> a 'colony'? Remember, we used to ship shirts to China to have them >>>>> laundered and still ship scrap (plastic and steel) there to get it >>>>> recycled and shipped back to us. Jimp the Chimp insists that it's not >>>>> a colony unless it is totally self-sufficient at a quality of life >>>>> similar to a rich suburb in Connecticut with a population of billions. >>>>> I think the bar is much lower both in quality of life and numbers; a >>>>> relatively small population (hundreds) that can manage survival >>>>> through an extended interruption in resupply is a 'colony' for me. My >>>>> definition is closer to the classical Earthbound definition, where >>>>> colonies failed due to interruptions in supplies from back home. >>>> >>>>There go those voices in your head again, space cadet. >>>> >>> >>> Yeah, but the problem is one of those voices is you saying all sorts >>> of stupid shite. >>> >> >>You mean stupid things like you can breath on Earth but not on Mars >>and that mothers put diapers on babbies long before Pampers were invented? >> > > So one of the items on your list is now 'cloth' or something similar. > You realize that most colonies weren't doing a lot of weaving of cloth > right away, right? Right, they had to wait for the first cotton crop to come in before the women could make cloth or they would use animal skins from the readily available game. -- Jim Pennino
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| From | Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-10 06:46 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <u5mkgb5qrjtufukgu755u7qaavfsbmga1e@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #569417 |
jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote:
>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>
>>>In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> And just how 'self sufficient' does a colony have to be in order to be
>>>>>> a 'colony'? Remember, we used to ship shirts to China to have them
>>>>>> laundered and still ship scrap (plastic and steel) there to get it
>>>>>> recycled and shipped back to us. Jimp the Chimp insists that it's not
>>>>>> a colony unless it is totally self-sufficient at a quality of life
>>>>>> similar to a rich suburb in Connecticut with a population of billions.
>>>>>> I think the bar is much lower both in quality of life and numbers; a
>>>>>> relatively small population (hundreds) that can manage survival
>>>>>> through an extended interruption in resupply is a 'colony' for me. My
>>>>>> definition is closer to the classical Earthbound definition, where
>>>>>> colonies failed due to interruptions in supplies from back home.
>>>>>
>>>>>There go those voices in your head again, space cadet.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, but the problem is one of those voices is you saying all sorts
>>>> of stupid shite.
>>>>
>>>
>>>You mean stupid things like you can breath on Earth but not on Mars
>>>and that mothers put diapers on babbies long before Pampers were invented?
>>>
>>
>> So one of the items on your list is now 'cloth' or something similar.
>> You realize that most colonies weren't doing a lot of weaving of cloth
>> right away, right?
>
>Right, they had to wait for the first cotton crop to come in before the
>women could make cloth or they would use animal skins from the readily
>available game.
>
Except they didn't do either of those things. Instead they shipped
the stuff in. Even as late as the mid-19th century it was cheaper to
import than to produce locally. Tariffs to protect northern textiles
were one of the causes of the civil war.
--
"Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the
truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong."
-- Thomas Jefferson
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-10 16:23 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <q8bqtc-6hn.ln1@mail.specsol.com> |
| In reply to | #569423 |
In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote: > jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: > >>In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote: >>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >>> >>>>In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> And just how 'self sufficient' does a colony have to be in order to be >>>>>>> a 'colony'? Remember, we used to ship shirts to China to have them >>>>>>> laundered and still ship scrap (plastic and steel) there to get it >>>>>>> recycled and shipped back to us. Jimp the Chimp insists that it's not >>>>>>> a colony unless it is totally self-sufficient at a quality of life >>>>>>> similar to a rich suburb in Connecticut with a population of billions. >>>>>>> I think the bar is much lower both in quality of life and numbers; a >>>>>>> relatively small population (hundreds) that can manage survival >>>>>>> through an extended interruption in resupply is a 'colony' for me. My >>>>>>> definition is closer to the classical Earthbound definition, where >>>>>>> colonies failed due to interruptions in supplies from back home. >>>>>> >>>>>>There go those voices in your head again, space cadet. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Yeah, but the problem is one of those voices is you saying all sorts >>>>> of stupid shite. >>>>> >>>> >>>>You mean stupid things like you can breath on Earth but not on Mars >>>>and that mothers put diapers on babbies long before Pampers were invented? >>>> >>> >>> So one of the items on your list is now 'cloth' or something similar. >>> You realize that most colonies weren't doing a lot of weaving of cloth >>> right away, right? >> >>Right, they had to wait for the first cotton crop to come in before the >>women could make cloth or they would use animal skins from the readily >>available game. >> > > Except they didn't do either of those things. Instead they shipped > the stuff in. Even as late as the mid-19th century it was cheaper to > import than to produce locally. Tariffs to protect northern textiles > were one of the causes of the civil war. What was shipped in was the fine textiles and the Civil War was after the colonial period. Spinning wheels and looms were common items during the colonial period. Go visit a museum. -- Jim Pennino
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| From | Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-10 15:19 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <n4klgb936tckje8sivupj0n8fp26bub6c0@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #569464 |
jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote:
>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>
>>>In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And just how 'self sufficient' does a colony have to be in order to be
>>>>>>>> a 'colony'? Remember, we used to ship shirts to China to have them
>>>>>>>> laundered and still ship scrap (plastic and steel) there to get it
>>>>>>>> recycled and shipped back to us. Jimp the Chimp insists that it's not
>>>>>>>> a colony unless it is totally self-sufficient at a quality of life
>>>>>>>> similar to a rich suburb in Connecticut with a population of billions.
>>>>>>>> I think the bar is much lower both in quality of life and numbers; a
>>>>>>>> relatively small population (hundreds) that can manage survival
>>>>>>>> through an extended interruption in resupply is a 'colony' for me. My
>>>>>>>> definition is closer to the classical Earthbound definition, where
>>>>>>>> colonies failed due to interruptions in supplies from back home.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>There go those voices in your head again, space cadet.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yeah, but the problem is one of those voices is you saying all sorts
>>>>>> of stupid shite.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>You mean stupid things like you can breath on Earth but not on Mars
>>>>>and that mothers put diapers on babbies long before Pampers were invented?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So one of the items on your list is now 'cloth' or something similar.
>>>> You realize that most colonies weren't doing a lot of weaving of cloth
>>>> right away, right?
>>>
>>>Right, they had to wait for the first cotton crop to come in before the
>>>women could make cloth or they would use animal skins from the readily
>>>available game.
>>>
>>
>> Except they didn't do either of those things. Instead they shipped
>> the stuff in. Even as late as the mid-19th century it was cheaper to
>> import than to produce locally. Tariffs to protect northern textiles
>> were one of the causes of the civil war.
>
>What was shipped in was the fine textiles ...
>
Depends on when you look.
>
>... and the Civil War was after the colonial period.
>
And they STILL hadn't established a textile industry that could
compete with imports without protection. That would tell you
something if you didn't just ball up your little fists and scream
"NO".
>
>Spinning wheels and looms were common items during the colonial period.
>
Shipped in. Colonies focused on growing FOOD. Everything else
shipped in until that was handled.
>
>Go visit a museum.
>
Go visit a lavatory and see if you can dislodge your head.
--
"Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the
truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong."
-- Thomas Jefferson
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| From | jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-10 22:49 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <it1rtc-gpp.ln1@mail.specsol.com> |
| In reply to | #569550 |
In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote: > jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: > >>In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote: >>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >>> >>>>In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> And just how 'self sufficient' does a colony have to be in order to be >>>>>>>>> a 'colony'? Remember, we used to ship shirts to China to have them >>>>>>>>> laundered and still ship scrap (plastic and steel) there to get it >>>>>>>>> recycled and shipped back to us. Jimp the Chimp insists that it's not >>>>>>>>> a colony unless it is totally self-sufficient at a quality of life >>>>>>>>> similar to a rich suburb in Connecticut with a population of billions. >>>>>>>>> I think the bar is much lower both in quality of life and numbers; a >>>>>>>>> relatively small population (hundreds) that can manage survival >>>>>>>>> through an extended interruption in resupply is a 'colony' for me. My >>>>>>>>> definition is closer to the classical Earthbound definition, where >>>>>>>>> colonies failed due to interruptions in supplies from back home. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>There go those voices in your head again, space cadet. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yeah, but the problem is one of those voices is you saying all sorts >>>>>>> of stupid shite. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>You mean stupid things like you can breath on Earth but not on Mars >>>>>>and that mothers put diapers on babbies long before Pampers were invented? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> So one of the items on your list is now 'cloth' or something similar. >>>>> You realize that most colonies weren't doing a lot of weaving of cloth >>>>> right away, right? >>>> >>>>Right, they had to wait for the first cotton crop to come in before the >>>>women could make cloth or they would use animal skins from the readily >>>>available game. >>>> >>> >>> Except they didn't do either of those things. Instead they shipped >>> the stuff in. Even as late as the mid-19th century it was cheaper to >>> import than to produce locally. Tariffs to protect northern textiles >>> were one of the causes of the civil war. >> >>What was shipped in was the fine textiles ... >> > > Depends on when you look. Any time after the first year or so. >> >>... and the Civil War was after the colonial period. >> > > And they STILL hadn't established a textile industry that could > compete with imports without protection. That would tell you > something if you didn't just ball up your little fists and scream > "NO". Which imports would that be; it certainly wasn't generic cloth. >> >>Spinning wheels and looms were common items during the colonial period. >> > > Shipped in. Colonies focused on growing FOOD. Everything else > shipped in until that was handled. Of course the spinning wheels and looms were shipped in, especially initially. And then the WOMEN of the FAMILIES used them to make cloth. >>Go visit a museum. >> > > Go visit a lavatory and see if you can dislodge your head. Fuck off and die, space cadet ass hole. Here is the big question you keep ignoring: How is it that the indigenous people who had been there for thousands of years without resupply could survive and thrive but the Europeans couldn't survive at all without resupply? Were the Europeans too lazy, too stupid, or too fraile? -- Jim Pennino
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| From | Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-10 20:02 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <uk4mgb5h5de0rbgjfnpo88v6fdoag03mji@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #569556 |
jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote:
>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>
>>>In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And just how 'self sufficient' does a colony have to be in order to be
>>>>>>>>>> a 'colony'? Remember, we used to ship shirts to China to have them
>>>>>>>>>> laundered and still ship scrap (plastic and steel) there to get it
>>>>>>>>>> recycled and shipped back to us. Jimp the Chimp insists that it's not
>>>>>>>>>> a colony unless it is totally self-sufficient at a quality of life
>>>>>>>>>> similar to a rich suburb in Connecticut with a population of billions.
>>>>>>>>>> I think the bar is much lower both in quality of life and numbers; a
>>>>>>>>>> relatively small population (hundreds) that can manage survival
>>>>>>>>>> through an extended interruption in resupply is a 'colony' for me. My
>>>>>>>>>> definition is closer to the classical Earthbound definition, where
>>>>>>>>>> colonies failed due to interruptions in supplies from back home.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>There go those voices in your head again, space cadet.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yeah, but the problem is one of those voices is you saying all sorts
>>>>>>>> of stupid shite.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>You mean stupid things like you can breath on Earth but not on Mars
>>>>>>>and that mothers put diapers on babbies long before Pampers were invented?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So one of the items on your list is now 'cloth' or something similar.
>>>>>> You realize that most colonies weren't doing a lot of weaving of cloth
>>>>>> right away, right?
>>>>>
>>>>>Right, they had to wait for the first cotton crop to come in before the
>>>>>women could make cloth or they would use animal skins from the readily
>>>>>available game.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Except they didn't do either of those things. Instead they shipped
>>>> the stuff in. Even as late as the mid-19th century it was cheaper to
>>>> import than to produce locally. Tariffs to protect northern textiles
>>>> were one of the causes of the civil war.
>>>
>>>What was shipped in was the fine textiles ...
>>>
>>
>> Depends on when you look.
>
>Any time after the first year or so.
>
Wrong.
>>>
>>>... and the Civil War was after the colonial period.
>>>
>>
>> And they STILL hadn't established a textile industry that could
>> compete with imports without protection. That would tell you
>> something if you didn't just ball up your little fists and scream
>> "NO".
>
>Which imports would that be; it certainly wasn't generic cloth.
>
Oh, it certainly was, as I've explained elsewhere (with citations and
not stamping my foot like you do).
>>>
>>>Spinning wheels and looms were common items during the colonial period.
>>>
>>
>> Shipped in. Colonies focused on growing FOOD. Everything else
>> shipped in until that was handled.
>
>Of course the spinning wheels and looms were shipped in, especially
>initially.
>
>And then the WOMEN of the FAMILIES used them to make cloth.
>
But they didn't meet your definition of 'self-sufficient' because when
those things broke, they had to import the parts (or new machines).
And the colonies were nowhere near self sufficient in cloth. One of
the primary imports was finished textiles and clothing.
>>>Go visit a museum.
>>>
>>
>> Go visit a lavatory and see if you can dislodge your head.
>
>Fuck off and die, space cadet ass hole.
>
Feel free to perform an anatomically inappropriate act with yourself,
chimp.
>
>Here is the big question you keep ignoring:
>
>How is it that the indigenous people who had been there for thousands
>of years without resupply could survive and thrive but the Europeans
>couldn't survive at all without resupply?
>
>Were the Europeans too lazy, too stupid, or too fraile?
>
Here's the big question YOU keep ignoring:
Why did so many colonies fail and so many more come so close to it?
--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn
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| From | jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-11 04:05 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <7ekrtc-skr.ln1@mail.specsol.com> |
| In reply to | #569603 |
In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote: > jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: > >>In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote: >>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >>> >>>>In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> And just how 'self sufficient' does a colony have to be in order to be >>>>>>>>>>> a 'colony'? Remember, we used to ship shirts to China to have them >>>>>>>>>>> laundered and still ship scrap (plastic and steel) there to get it >>>>>>>>>>> recycled and shipped back to us. Jimp the Chimp insists that it's not >>>>>>>>>>> a colony unless it is totally self-sufficient at a quality of life >>>>>>>>>>> similar to a rich suburb in Connecticut with a population of billions. >>>>>>>>>>> I think the bar is much lower both in quality of life and numbers; a >>>>>>>>>>> relatively small population (hundreds) that can manage survival >>>>>>>>>>> through an extended interruption in resupply is a 'colony' for me. My >>>>>>>>>>> definition is closer to the classical Earthbound definition, where >>>>>>>>>>> colonies failed due to interruptions in supplies from back home. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>There go those voices in your head again, space cadet. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Yeah, but the problem is one of those voices is you saying all sorts >>>>>>>>> of stupid shite. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>You mean stupid things like you can breath on Earth but not on Mars >>>>>>>>and that mothers put diapers on babbies long before Pampers were invented? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So one of the items on your list is now 'cloth' or something similar. >>>>>>> You realize that most colonies weren't doing a lot of weaving of cloth >>>>>>> right away, right? >>>>>> >>>>>>Right, they had to wait for the first cotton crop to come in before the >>>>>>women could make cloth or they would use animal skins from the readily >>>>>>available game. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Except they didn't do either of those things. Instead they shipped >>>>> the stuff in. Even as late as the mid-19th century it was cheaper to >>>>> import than to produce locally. Tariffs to protect northern textiles >>>>> were one of the causes of the civil war. >>>> >>>>What was shipped in was the fine textiles ... >>>> >>> >>> Depends on when you look. >> >>Any time after the first year or so. >> > > Wrong. Then what were women doing with those spinning wheels and looms? > >>>> >>>>... and the Civil War was after the colonial period. >>>> >>> >>> And they STILL hadn't established a textile industry that could >>> compete with imports without protection. That would tell you >>> something if you didn't just ball up your little fists and scream >>> "NO". >> >>Which imports would that be; it certainly wasn't generic cloth. >> > > Oh, it certainly was, as I've explained elsewhere (with citations and > not stamping my foot like you do). Then what were women doing with those spinning wheels and looms? >>>> >>>>Spinning wheels and looms were common items during the colonial period. >>>> >>> >>> Shipped in. Colonies focused on growing FOOD. Everything else >>> shipped in until that was handled. >> >>Of course the spinning wheels and looms were shipped in, especially >>initially. >> >>And then the WOMEN of the FAMILIES used them to make cloth. >> > > But they didn't meet your definition of 'self-sufficient' because when > those things broke, they had to import the parts (or new machines). > And the colonies were nowhere near self sufficient in cloth. One of > the primary imports was finished textiles and clothing. Those things are made of wood. The majority of people were farmers and made most of their own stuff on spinning wheels and looms. >>>>Go visit a museum. >>>> >>> >>> Go visit a lavatory and see if you can dislodge your head. >> >>Fuck off and die, space cadet ass hole. >> > > Feel free to perform an anatomically inappropriate act with yourself, > chimp. > >> >>Here is the big question you keep ignoring: >> >>How is it that the indigenous people who had been there for thousands >>of years without resupply could survive and thrive but the Europeans >>couldn't survive at all without resupply? >> >>Were the Europeans too lazy, too stupid, or too fraile? >> > > Here's the big question YOU keep ignoring: > > Why did so many colonies fail and so many more come so close to it? Not all colonies that failed were a survival issue, a lot were economic failures. The reasons were poor site planning, attacks from indigenous people, disease, attacks from other governments, wasting time searching for mythical gold, and not paying proper attention to getting crops planted. None failed for lack of air or water. How is it that the indigenous people who had been there for thousands of years without resupply could survive and thrive but the Europeans couldn't survive at all without resupply? That the indigenous people survived and thrived building civilizations on their own is de facto proof that support from Europe is not needed to survive in the Americas. -- Jim Pennino
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| From | Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-11 01:41 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <jiomgb11mrqg9728qsd98cqb69opvas339@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #569610 |
jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote:
>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>
>>>In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> And just how 'self sufficient' does a colony have to be in order to be
>>>>>>>>>>>> a 'colony'? Remember, we used to ship shirts to China to have them
>>>>>>>>>>>> laundered and still ship scrap (plastic and steel) there to get it
>>>>>>>>>>>> recycled and shipped back to us. Jimp the Chimp insists that it's not
>>>>>>>>>>>> a colony unless it is totally self-sufficient at a quality of life
>>>>>>>>>>>> similar to a rich suburb in Connecticut with a population of billions.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the bar is much lower both in quality of life and numbers; a
>>>>>>>>>>>> relatively small population (hundreds) that can manage survival
>>>>>>>>>>>> through an extended interruption in resupply is a 'colony' for me. My
>>>>>>>>>>>> definition is closer to the classical Earthbound definition, where
>>>>>>>>>>>> colonies failed due to interruptions in supplies from back home.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>There go those voices in your head again, space cadet.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, but the problem is one of those voices is you saying all sorts
>>>>>>>>>> of stupid shite.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>You mean stupid things like you can breath on Earth but not on Mars
>>>>>>>>>and that mothers put diapers on babbies long before Pampers were invented?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So one of the items on your list is now 'cloth' or something similar.
>>>>>>>> You realize that most colonies weren't doing a lot of weaving of cloth
>>>>>>>> right away, right?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Right, they had to wait for the first cotton crop to come in before the
>>>>>>>women could make cloth or they would use animal skins from the readily
>>>>>>>available game.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Except they didn't do either of those things. Instead they shipped
>>>>>> the stuff in. Even as late as the mid-19th century it was cheaper to
>>>>>> import than to produce locally. Tariffs to protect northern textiles
>>>>>> were one of the causes of the civil war.
>>>>>
>>>>>What was shipped in was the fine textiles ...
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Depends on when you look.
>>>
>>>Any time after the first year or so.
>>>
>>
>> Wrong.
>
>Then what were women doing with those spinning wheels and looms?
>
What are you doing with an airplane?
Why did the colonies import so much cloth and so much finished
clothing?
Why don't you read cites?
>
>>
>>>>>
>>>>>... and the Civil War was after the colonial period.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And they STILL hadn't established a textile industry that could
>>>> compete with imports without protection. That would tell you
>>>> something if you didn't just ball up your little fists and scream
>>>> "NO".
>>>
>>>Which imports would that be; it certainly wasn't generic cloth.
>>>
>>
>> Oh, it certainly was, as I've explained elsewhere (with citations and
>> not stamping my foot like you do).
>
>
>Then what were women doing with those spinning wheels and looms?
>
What are you doing with an airplane?
Why did the colonies import so much cloth and so much finished
clothing?
Why don't you read cites?
>>>>>
>>>>>Spinning wheels and looms were common items during the colonial period.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Shipped in. Colonies focused on growing FOOD. Everything else
>>>> shipped in until that was handled.
>>>
>>>Of course the spinning wheels and looms were shipped in, especially
>>>initially.
>>>
>>>And then the WOMEN of the FAMILIES used them to make cloth.
>>>
>>
>> But they didn't meet your definition of 'self-sufficient' because when
>> those things broke, they had to import the parts (or new machines).
>> And the colonies were nowhere near self sufficient in cloth. One of
>> the primary imports was finished textiles and clothing.
>
>Those things are made of wood.
>
>The majority of people were farmers and made most of their own stuff
>on spinning wheels and looms.
>
So you keep asserting. I've given you cites that prove otherwise.
What are you doing with an airplane?
Why did the colonies import so much cloth and so much finished
clothing?
Why don't you read cites?
>>>>>Go visit a museum.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Go visit a lavatory and see if you can dislodge your head.
>>>
>>>Fuck off and die, space cadet ass hole.
>>>
>>
>> Feel free to perform an anatomically inappropriate act with yourself,
>> chimp.
>>
>>>
>>>Here is the big question you keep ignoring:
>>>
>>>How is it that the indigenous people who had been there for thousands
>>>of years without resupply could survive and thrive but the Europeans
>>>couldn't survive at all without resupply?
>>>
>>>Were the Europeans too lazy, too stupid, or too fraile?
>>>
>>
>> Here's the big question YOU keep ignoring:
>>
>> Why did so many colonies fail and so many more come so close to it?
>>
>
>Not all colonies that failed were a survival issue, a lot were economic
>failures.
>
>The reasons were poor site planning, attacks from indigenous people,
>disease, attacks from other governments, wasting time searching for
>mythical gold, and not paying proper attention to getting crops planted.
>
>None failed for lack of air or water.
>
Lots failed from lack of food, lack of resupply, etc.
>
>How is it that the indigenous people who had been there for thousands
>of years without resupply could survive and thrive but the Europeans
>couldn't survive at all without resupply?
>
Barely.
>
>That the indigenous people survived and thrived building civilizations
>on their own is de facto proof that support from Europe is not needed
>to survive in the Americas.
>
If you had hundreds of thousands of years leading up to it. Funny how
you insist a colony must be 'instant'...
--
"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the
soul with evil."
-- Socrates
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| From | jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-11 18:18 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <ac6ttc-ji3.ln1@mail.specsol.com> |
| In reply to | #569660 |
In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote: > jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: <snip> >>Then what were women doing with those spinning wheels and looms? >> > > What are you doing with an airplane? Flying it where ever I want to. > Why did the colonies import so much cloth and so much finished > clothing? The demand for luxury goods exceeded local supply. The clothing required to survive was avaiable locally as is shown by the fact that indigenous people thrived and built civilizations for thousands of years without any imports from Europe. <snip> >>Then what were women doing with those spinning wheels and looms? >> > > What are you doing with an airplane? Using it for the intended purpose just like the colonial women were doing with the spinning wheels and looms, i.e. making thread and cloth. <snip> >>Those things are made of wood. >> >>The majority of people were farmers and made most of their own stuff >>on spinning wheels and looms. >> > > So you keep asserting. I've given you cites that prove otherwise. When things are made of wood, repair parts literally grow on trees, space cadet. >>How is it that the indigenous people who had been there for thousands >>of years without resupply could survive and thrive but the Europeans >>couldn't survive at all without resupply? >> > > Barely. Ever heard of the Aztecs and Mayans, space cadet? Civilizatons that had large cities, mathematics, astronomy and more for thousands of years until the Europeans showed up. >>That the indigenous people survived and thrived building civilizations >>on their own is de facto proof that support from Europe is not needed >>to survive in the Americas. >> > > If you had hundreds of thousands of years leading up to it. Funny how > you insist a colony must be 'instant'... Not hundreds of thousands of years, just thousands of years and never had to be resupplied from Europe. -- Jim Pennino
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| From | Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-11 19:20 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <odmogbl5c0chgnfcv7g7j4dp5rch3p4pfh@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #569765 |
jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote:
>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>>>Then what were women doing with those spinning wheels and looms?
>>>
>>
>> What are you doing with an airplane?
>
>Flying it where ever I want to.
>
So why are there commercial airliners?
>> Why did the colonies import so much cloth and so much finished
>> clothing?
>
>The demand for luxury goods exceeded local supply.
>
Repeating a lie doesn't make it so.
>
>The clothing required to survive was avaiable locally as is shown by the
>fact that indigenous people thrived and built civilizations for thousands
>of years without any imports from Europe.
>
And most of them lived on the edge of survival under soul crushing
conditions.
>
><snip>
>
>>>Then what were women doing with those spinning wheels and looms?
>>>
>>
>> What are you doing with an airplane?
>
>Using it for the intended purpose just like the colonial women were
>doing with the spinning wheels and looms, i.e. making thread and cloth.
>
There are lots of private airplanes. So why are there all those
commercial airliners and cargo planes? This is your argument with
regard to spinning wheels...
>
><snip>
>
>>>Those things are made of wood.
>>>
>>>The majority of people were farmers and made most of their own stuff
>>>on spinning wheels and looms.
>>>
>>
>> So you keep asserting. I've given you cites that prove otherwise.
>
>When things are made of wood, repair parts literally grow on trees, space
>cadet.
>
Gee, I've never seen parts growing on trees, chimpshit. Of course,
chimps never got beyond sticks and rocks, so perhaps that explains
your confusion.
>>>How is it that the indigenous people who had been there for thousands
>>>of years without resupply could survive and thrive but the Europeans
>>>couldn't survive at all without resupply?
>>>
>>
>> Barely.
>
>Ever heard of the Aztecs and Mayans, space cadet?
>
Yeah. Do you know anything at all about the lives of over 99% of the
people living in those 'empires', chimp?
>
>Civilizatons that had large cities, mathematics, astronomy and more
>for thousands of years until the Europeans showed up.
>
And also had crushing poverty, bare survival, and mass extermination
as human sacrifices for virtually all of the inhabitants.
>>>That the indigenous people survived and thrived building civilizations
>>>on their own is de facto proof that support from Europe is not needed
>>>to survive in the Americas.
>>>
>>
>> If you had hundreds of thousands of years leading up to it. Funny how
>> you insist a colony must be 'instant'...
>>
>
>Not hundreds of thousands of years, just thousands of years and never had
>to be resupplied from Europe.
>
You think the Mayan and Aztec empires arose within a thousand years of
when those immigrants arrived? REALLY????
--
"Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the
truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong."
-- Thomas Jefferson
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| From | Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-10 12:06 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <nedfkt$703$1@newsreader4.netcologne.de> |
| In reply to | #569231 |
Fred J McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> schrieb: > Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote: > >>Fred J McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> schrieb: >>> Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote: >>> >>>>Fred J McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> schrieb: >>>> >>>>> This will be more complicated and more 'expensive' than on Earth, >>>>> since you don't have the complex hydrocarbon feedstock on Mars. But, >>>>> as the link points out, "You can make every plastic available on Earth >>>>> from resources on Mars. >>>> >>>>Sure. >>>> >>>>The main question is how much complexity this entails, and how >>>>many people and what sort of technological organization this needs >>>>for a colony to work. >>>> >>> >>><snip irrelevancies> >> >>Not quite irrelevant, it shows that you need thousands of people >>working in the proposed Mars chemical industry alone to be able >>to make simple parts we take for granted here. >> > > Or you'd have more automated equipment because people are more > expensive. Current chemical industry is already automated to a very high degree. Also, automation is expensive in equipment. When equipment fails, you need somebody to repair it. And so on... If you only have a few thousand people, the best you can hope for is technology of around hundread years ago. They didn't have all the complicated, interconnected stuff. The only rubber they could use was natural rubber. Synthetic fabrics were unknown, as were plastics except for Bakelite. So, bring on those cotton plants. > Or you teleoperate. But yes, TOTAL self-sufficiency > (which we don't have in the United States, by the way) takes more than > a dozen people. Incremental steps... To do anything really useful, you need quite a big first step. >>You'll need a at least few hundred thousand people to get a mostly >>self-sufficient colony going, and you will need to supply them >>while the aren't yet self-sufficient. >> > > How did you arrive at that number of people? How much did you assume > was automated and/or being produced by something like a 3D printer? I was talking about chemicals, which are the raw material for 3D printers. Automated is already done. > None of this is magical technology. We use more people-intensive > processes here because people are cheaper. Not really. We (in the West) already automate to the point where it is unrealistic to expect more at the current level of technology. The problem is not only running the processes smoothly on a day-to-day basis. The problem is that you need people for process upsets, for mechanical failures and for maintenance. Mechanical seals fail. Solid gets into pumps and plugs them. Heat exchangers foul. Pumps wear out. Pipes corrode. Insulation of electrical motors degrades over time. And so on... And every five years or so, you have a big turnaround to inspect everything and replace or repair worn or damaged parts. Currently, we do not have the technology to avoid this kind of thing, and automation is not going to help there. If we had the technology, we would be using it now. [As you may have guessed, I work in the chemical industry, so I know a little about the issues involved].
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| From | Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-10 06:57 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <1jmkgb1u33m011lmavr1ljosf1srlvrr3j@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #569412 |
Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:
>Fred J McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> schrieb:
>> Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:
>>
>>>Fred J McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> schrieb:
>>>> Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Fred J McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> schrieb:
>>>>>
>>>>>> This will be more complicated and more 'expensive' than on Earth,
>>>>>> since you don't have the complex hydrocarbon feedstock on Mars. But,
>>>>>> as the link points out, "You can make every plastic available on Earth
>>>>>> from resources on Mars.
>>>>>
>>>>>Sure.
>>>>>
>>>>>The main question is how much complexity this entails, and how
>>>>>many people and what sort of technological organization this needs
>>>>>for a colony to work.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>><snip irrelevancies>
>>>
>>>Not quite irrelevant, it shows that you need thousands of people
>>>working in the proposed Mars chemical industry alone to be able
>>>to make simple parts we take for granted here.
>>>
>>
>> Or you'd have more automated equipment because people are more
>> expensive.
>
>Current chemical industry is already automated to a very high
>degree.
>
And would be even more automated on a Mars colony.
>
>Also, automation is expensive in equipment. When equipment
>fails, you need somebody to repair it. And so on...
>
People are more expensive on a Mars colony. So needing one guy part
time to do repairs vs needing half a dozen people hand managing things
is a net win.
>
>If you only have a few thousand people, the best you can hope
>for is technology of around hundread years ago.
>
What utter bullshit!
<snip stupid shite>
>
>> Or you teleoperate. But yes, TOTAL self-sufficiency
>> (which we don't have in the United States, by the way) takes more than
>> a dozen people. Incremental steps...
>
>To do anything really useful, you need quite a big first step.
>
Nope.
>
>>>You'll need a at least few hundred thousand people to get a mostly
>>>self-sufficient colony going, and you will need to supply them
>>>while the aren't yet self-sufficient.
>>>
>>
>> How did you arrive at that number of people? How much did you assume
>> was automated and/or being produced by something like a 3D printer?
>
>I was talking about chemicals, which are the raw material for 3D
>printers. Automated is already done.
>
So you ship 100 tonnes of 'ink' and you now have 100 tonnes of tools.
>
>> None of this is magical technology. We use more people-intensive
>> processes here because people are cheaper.
>
>Not really. We (in the West) already automate to the point where
>it is unrealistic to expect more at the current level of
>technology.
>
Wrong. Basic counter-example. Here on Earth we make rocket fuel with
a lot of people involved in the process. On Mars we'll make rocket
fuel using a completely automated factory that requires no human
attention at all (because there won't be any humans there to supervise
when it goes into production).
>
>[As you may have guessed, I work in the chemical industry, so
>I know a little about the issues involved].
>
You work in the EARTH chemical industry, so you have a lot of build-in
assumptions about how to do things that are simply incorrect.
--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn
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| From | Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-10 14:17 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <nednag$cra$1@newsreader4.netcologne.de> |
| In reply to | #569435 |
Fred J McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> schrieb: > Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote: > >>Fred J McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> schrieb: >>> Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote: >>> >>>>Fred J McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> schrieb: >>>>> Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>Fred J McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> schrieb: >>>>>> >>>>>>> This will be more complicated and more 'expensive' than on Earth, >>>>>>> since you don't have the complex hydrocarbon feedstock on Mars. But, >>>>>>> as the link points out, "You can make every plastic available on Earth >>>>>>> from resources on Mars. >>>>>> >>>>>>Sure. >>>>>> >>>>>>The main question is how much complexity this entails, and how >>>>>>many people and what sort of technological organization this needs >>>>>>for a colony to work. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>><snip irrelevancies> >>>> >>>>Not quite irrelevant, it shows that you need thousands of people >>>>working in the proposed Mars chemical industry alone to be able >>>>to make simple parts we take for granted here. >>>> >>> >>> Or you'd have more automated equipment because people are more >>> expensive. >> >>Current chemical industry is already automated to a very high >>degree. >> > > And would be even more automated on a Mars colony. > >> >>Also, automation is expensive in equipment. When equipment >>fails, you need somebody to repair it. And so on... >> > > People are more expensive on a Mars colony. So needing one guy part > time to do repairs vs needing half a dozen people hand managing things > is a net win. Have you actually ever seen a chemical plant from the inside, and do you have an idea of their complexity and what people actually do who work there? We do not currently have the technology to go much further in automation. If you think otherwise, please contact DOW, Dupont, BASF, ... They will be happy to implement your concepts.
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| From | Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-10 08:26 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <h1skgbtsf3fprf4bgooqn80uamllncm8ct@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #569439 |
Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:
>Fred J McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> schrieb:
>> Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:
>>
>>>Fred J McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> schrieb:
>>>> Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Fred J McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> schrieb:
>>>>>> Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Fred J McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> schrieb:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This will be more complicated and more 'expensive' than on Earth,
>>>>>>>> since you don't have the complex hydrocarbon feedstock on Mars. But,
>>>>>>>> as the link points out, "You can make every plastic available on Earth
>>>>>>>> from resources on Mars.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Sure.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The main question is how much complexity this entails, and how
>>>>>>>many people and what sort of technological organization this needs
>>>>>>>for a colony to work.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>><snip irrelevancies>
>>>>>
>>>>>Not quite irrelevant, it shows that you need thousands of people
>>>>>working in the proposed Mars chemical industry alone to be able
>>>>>to make simple parts we take for granted here.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Or you'd have more automated equipment because people are more
>>>> expensive.
>>>
>>>Current chemical industry is already automated to a very high
>>>degree.
>>>
>>
>> And would be even more automated on a Mars colony.
>>
>>>
>>>Also, automation is expensive in equipment. When equipment
>>>fails, you need somebody to repair it. And so on...
>>>
>>
>> People are more expensive on a Mars colony. So needing one guy part
>> time to do repairs vs needing half a dozen people hand managing things
>> is a net win.
>
>Have you actually ever seen a chemical plant from the inside, and
>do you have an idea of their complexity and what people actually
>do who work there?
>
Yes, I have. Have you?
>
>We do not currently have the technology to go much further in
>automation.
>
Of course we do. it's just that (on Earth) the cost of the machinery
and automation is higher than paying the people.
>
>If you think otherwise, please contact DOW, Dupont, BASF, ...
>
>They will be happy to implement your concepts.
>
You really don't have a clue about any of this, do you? Lots of
people work in fast food. Most of them could be replaced by
automation. They aren't (currently) because the cost of the people is
lower than the cost of the automation.
--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn
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| From | Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-10 16:40 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <nedvmm$je5$1@newsreader4.netcologne.de> |
| In reply to | #569450 |
Fred J McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> schrieb: > Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote: > >>Fred J McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> schrieb: >>> Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote: >>> >>>>Fred J McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> schrieb: >>>>> Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>Fred J McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> schrieb: >>>>>>> Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Fred J McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> schrieb: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This will be more complicated and more 'expensive' than on Earth, >>>>>>>>> since you don't have the complex hydrocarbon feedstock on Mars. But, >>>>>>>>> as the link points out, "You can make every plastic available on Earth >>>>>>>>> from resources on Mars. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Sure. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>The main question is how much complexity this entails, and how >>>>>>>>many people and what sort of technological organization this needs >>>>>>>>for a colony to work. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>><snip irrelevancies> >>>>>> >>>>>>Not quite irrelevant, it shows that you need thousands of people >>>>>>working in the proposed Mars chemical industry alone to be able >>>>>>to make simple parts we take for granted here. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Or you'd have more automated equipment because people are more >>>>> expensive. >>>> >>>>Current chemical industry is already automated to a very high >>>>degree. >>>> >>> >>> And would be even more automated on a Mars colony. >>> >>>> >>>>Also, automation is expensive in equipment. When equipment >>>>fails, you need somebody to repair it. And so on... >>>> >>> >>> People are more expensive on a Mars colony. So needing one guy part >>> time to do repairs vs needing half a dozen people hand managing things >>> is a net win. >> >>Have you actually ever seen a chemical plant from the inside, and >>do you have an idea of their complexity and what people actually >>do who work there? >> > > Yes, I have. Have you? Indeed I have. I also work in the chemical industry, and I have a pretty good grasp of the complexity there. >> >>We do not currently have the technology to go much further in >>automation. >> > > Of course we do. it's just that (on Earth) the cost of the machinery > and automation is higher than paying the people. > >> >>If you think otherwise, please contact DOW, Dupont, BASF, ... >> >>They will be happy to implement your concepts. >> > You really don't have a clue about any of this, do you? Lots of > people work in fast food. If you think the requirements of the fast food industry equals that of the chemical industry, you are quite mistaken. Again, contact BASF and tell them how to save on man-hours in their production units. They will be quite happy if the concepts you offer are valid.
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| From | Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-10 15:38 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <mdklgb1nt9sebjsq39bp5p7qpuck8ts1o2@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #569465 |
Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:
>Fred J McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> schrieb:
>> Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:
>>
>>>Fred J McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> schrieb:
>>>> Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Fred J McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> schrieb:
>>>>>> Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Fred J McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> schrieb:
>>>>>>>> Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Fred J McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> schrieb:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This will be more complicated and more 'expensive' than on Earth,
>>>>>>>>>> since you don't have the complex hydrocarbon feedstock on Mars. But,
>>>>>>>>>> as the link points out, "You can make every plastic available on Earth
>>>>>>>>>> from resources on Mars.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Sure.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>The main question is how much complexity this entails, and how
>>>>>>>>>many people and what sort of technological organization this needs
>>>>>>>>>for a colony to work.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>><snip irrelevancies>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Not quite irrelevant, it shows that you need thousands of people
>>>>>>>working in the proposed Mars chemical industry alone to be able
>>>>>>>to make simple parts we take for granted here.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Or you'd have more automated equipment because people are more
>>>>>> expensive.
>>>>>
>>>>>Current chemical industry is already automated to a very high
>>>>>degree.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And would be even more automated on a Mars colony.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Also, automation is expensive in equipment. When equipment
>>>>>fails, you need somebody to repair it. And so on...
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> People are more expensive on a Mars colony. So needing one guy part
>>>> time to do repairs vs needing half a dozen people hand managing things
>>>> is a net win.
>>>
>>>Have you actually ever seen a chemical plant from the inside, and
>>>do you have an idea of their complexity and what people actually
>>>do who work there?
>>>
>>
>> Yes, I have. Have you?
>
>Indeed I have. I also work in the chemical industry, and I have
>a pretty good grasp of the complexity there.
>
And are all people there so intellectually dishonest or are you
special?
>>>
>>>We do not currently have the technology to go much further in
>>>automation.
>>>
>>
>> Of course we do. it's just that (on Earth) the cost of the machinery
>> and automation is higher than paying the people.
>>
>>>
>>>If you think otherwise, please contact DOW, Dupont, BASF, ...
>>>
>>>They will be happy to implement your concepts.
>>>
>
>> You really don't have a clue about any of this, do you? Lots of
>> people work in fast food.
>
>If you think the requirements of the fast food industry equals
>that of the chemical industry, you are quite mistaken.
>
If you didn't dishonestly remove the rest of the explanation, you
could have avoided the preceding stupid remark.
ALL economic efforts have just a few inputs - materials, capital, and
labour. All economic efforts will try to swap off among those three
to reduce overall product costs. Now industries can't do too much
about materials cost to swap that off for capital and labour, but they
will add capital and labour costs to try to reduce material waste WHEN
THE NET CHANGE IS POSITIVE. They will also substitute capital for
labour or vice versa WHEN THE NET CHANGE IS POSITIVE. It doesn't
matter if you're talking about the chemical industry or the fast food
industry. Any successful economic activity will behave that way.
The optimum mix among materials, capital, and labour will be DIFFERENT
depending on the relative costs of the three components. Those
relative costs will be DIFFERENT on Mars than they are on Earth. I'm
sorry you find this simple set of concepts so beyond you.
>
>Again, contact BASF and tell them how to save on man-hours in their
>production units.
>
>They will be quite happy if the concepts you offer are valid.
>
Not while labour is at its current cost compared to automation costs,
they won't. Let labour costs get to where they would be on Mars,
though, ...
--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn
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| From | Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-11 19:06 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <negsja$h2l$1@newsreader4.netcologne.de> |
| In reply to | #569554 |
Fred J McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> schrieb: > And are all people there so intellectually dishonest or are you > special? Trying to discuss rationally with somebody who resorts to ad hominem attacks when arguments run out is futile. Bye.
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