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Groups > sci.physics > #544442 > unrolled thread

The Universe is a Reverse Fractal

Started byjohn <johnsefton288@gmail.com>
First post2016-01-11 07:43 -0800
Last post2016-01-11 17:10 -0500
Articles 20 on this page of 87 — 9 participants

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  The Universe is a Reverse Fractal john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-11 07:43 -0800
    The Universe is a Reverse Fractal HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-01-11 08:09 -0800
      Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-01-11 14:31 -0500
    Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-01-11 10:15 -0600
      Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-11 09:03 -0800
        Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-11 14:25 -0600
    Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-01-11 10:30 -0800
      Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-01-11 10:40 -0800
      Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-11 10:40 -0800
        Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-01-11 13:00 -0600
        Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-01-11 11:40 -0800
        Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-01-11 12:36 -0800
          Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-11 12:47 -0800
            Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-11 15:32 -0600
              Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-11 13:43 -0800
                Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-11 15:56 -0600
                Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-11 13:58 -0800
                  Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-11 16:15 -0600
                  Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-01-11 22:18 +0000
                    Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-12 08:48 -0800
                      Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-01-12 09:00 -0800
                      Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-12 09:18 -0800
                      Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-01-12 18:32 +0000
                        Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-12 13:59 -0800
                          Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-01-12 23:55 +0000
                            Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-12 17:41 -0800
                              Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-12 18:20 -0800
                                Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-01-13 03:33 +0000
                                  Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal pnalsing@gmail.com - 2016-01-12 20:19 -0800
                                  Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-01-13 03:00 -0800
                                    Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-01-13 17:50 -0500
                              Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-01-13 03:17 +0000
                              Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-13 07:53 -0600
                                Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-13 06:55 -0800
                                  Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-13 07:02 -0800
                                    Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-13 09:54 -0600
                                      Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-01-13 16:31 +0000
                                        Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-13 11:01 -0600
                                          Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-13 11:04 -0800
                                            Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-13 13:25 -0600
                                              Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-13 14:05 -0800
                                                Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-13 19:45 -0800
                                                  Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-01-14 06:25 +0000
                                                    Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-14 06:18 -0800
                                                      Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-14 09:26 -0600
                                                      Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-01-14 16:35 +0000
                                                        Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-14 09:05 -0800
                                                          Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-01-14 17:55 +0000
                                                          Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-14 14:25 -0600
                                                            Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-14 12:57 -0800
                                                              Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-14 13:26 -0800
                                                                Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-14 16:48 -0600
                                                                  Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-14 16:14 -0800
                                                                    Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal Michael Moroney <moroney@TheWorld.com> - 2016-01-15 03:01 +0000
                                                                      Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-14 19:25 -0800
                                                                        Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-15 10:52 -0600
                                                                    Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-15 09:07 -0600
                                                                      Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-15 07:12 -0800
                                                                        Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-01-15 08:52 -0800
                                                                          Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-15 09:36 -0800
                                                                            Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-15 12:00 -0600
                                                                              Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-15 19:18 -0800
                                                                                Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-01-16 02:26 -0800
                                                                                Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-17 15:23 -0600
                                                                        Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-15 11:44 -0600
                                                              Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-14 16:45 -0600
                                                  Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-14 08:20 -0600
                                                    Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-01-14 06:36 -0800
                                                    Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-14 06:45 -0800
                                                      Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-01-14 07:13 -0800
                                                        Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-01-14 12:41 -0500
                                                      Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-14 09:30 -0600
                                                        Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-14 07:46 -0800
                                                          Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-14 07:55 -0800
                                                            Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-14 14:21 -0600
                                                          Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-01-14 16:20 +0000
                                                          Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-14 14:19 -0600
                                                Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-14 14:20 -0600
                                  Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-01-13 15:05 +0000
                                  Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-13 09:09 -0600
                                    Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-13 07:45 -0800
                                      Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-13 10:00 -0600
                                        Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-13 08:37 -0800
                                          Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-01-13 16:46 +0000
                                          Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-13 10:58 -0600
                                  Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-01-13 07:40 -0800
          Re: The Universe is a Reverse Fractal benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-01-11 17:10 -0500

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#544795

FromHVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com>
Date2016-01-12 09:00 -0800
Message-ID<00db6cb1-920f-40e7-85b7-31124bc64728@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#544794
The galaxy has a period: ~10^16 seconds 
The electron has a period: ~10^-16 seconds 
------------

John has a period too. Plug it up Bitch

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#544802

Fromjohn <johnsefton288@gmail.com>
Date2016-01-12 09:18 -0800
Message-ID<40b604c5-addc-42e8-8aec-a88207907605@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#544794
Anyway- the REAL leap, once you allow for
smaller-scale atoms (that make up
subatomic particles and electrons),
is when you realize that all these smaller-scale
atoms must be involved in all the radiative 
processes that OUR atoms are!!! There are
huge amounts of MUCH higher-frequency
radiations at a MUCH smaller scale.

So, there are energies transferring at frequencies
too high for us to perceive. How much? Where?

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#544822

Frommoroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date2016-01-12 18:32 +0000
Message-ID<n73gsh$g7p$1@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to#544794
john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> writes:

>There are no "solid " objects, Michael.
>Didn't you get the memo? 

>The galaxy has a period: ~10^16 seconds

How can the galaxy have a period of 10^16 seconds when it doesn't rotate 
as a solid object?  (and you seem to agree it's not a solid object)
Some stars near SGR A* take only a few years to orbit.


>The galaxy has a period: ~10^16 seconds
>The electron has a period: ~10^-16 seconds
>Difference: 10^32

>The galaxy has a diameter: ~10^22 m
>The atom has a diameter:~10^-10m
>Difference: 10^32

So you believe you found two ratios with near equal values.
So what?  (and which galaxy, and which atom? They're all different)

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#544883

Fromjohn <johnsefton288@gmail.com>
Date2016-01-12 13:59 -0800
Message-ID<174a82a1-bf3b-4a4f-861a-b27f324f6311@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#544822
Have you heard of a "cosmic year", Michael?
225 million years.
The time it takes the (non-solid) Milky Way 
to rotate al the way back to where we are.
Yes, some things will have changed 

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#544930

Frommoroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date2016-01-12 23:55 +0000
Message-ID<n743ok$hgc$1@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to#544883
john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> writes:

>Have you heard of a "cosmic year", Michael?

Yes.

>225 million years.
>The time it takes the (non-solid) Milky Way 
>to rotate al the way back to where we are.

No, it is the time it takes the SUN to revolve around the center of the
Milky Way.  Other stars take more or less time, depending on their exact
orbit.  It's like a whirlpool, the center circles more times than the 
outer edges.

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#544956

Fromjohn <johnsefton288@gmail.com>
Date2016-01-12 17:41 -0800
Message-ID<f9055a51-546f-41e9-8655-8c16886c5582@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#544930
Michael: stars take more or less time, depending on their exact 
orbit.  It's like a whirlpool, the center circles more times than the "

Yes, I like that because it fits with the
BH extreme spin idea.
But how do the arms remain contiguous?
I know- you say they don't, but all spiral
galaxies have them, so they must.

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#544966

Fromjohn <johnsefton288@gmail.com>
Date2016-01-12 18:20 -0800
Message-ID<7d73b4b9-892d-4fe3-8130-7b5af96bf682@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#544956
Galactic rotation curve:
as one goes further from centre ,
instead of falling off in speed,
stars maintain or increase their speeds.
So.
The whole disc is turning 

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#544978

Frommoroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date2016-01-13 03:33 +0000
Message-ID<n74gia$ge6$1@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to#544966
john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> writes:

>Galactic rotation curve:
>as one goes further from centre ,
>instead of falling off in speed,
>stars maintain or increase their speeds.
>So.
>The whole disc is turning 

No.  The SPEED of the individual stars is about the same, but remember
stars farther out have a longer distance to travel to make one orbit, so
the disk does not rotate as a unit.  The orbital period is proportional
to its distance from the center.

One of the puzzles of science is _why_ the star speed is about the same
everywhere rather than getting slower as you go further out (like our
solar system), this is why many scientists believe in dark matter.
A certain distribution of invisible mass produces the obverved orbital
periods.

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#544982

Frompnalsing@gmail.com
Date2016-01-12 20:19 -0800
Message-ID<8b8e3efc-a0f0-41bf-ac6b-879fedde4952@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#544978
On Tuesday, January 12, 2016 at 7:33:40 PM UTC-8, Michael Moroney wrote:

> No.  The SPEED of the individual stars is about the same, but remember
> stars farther out have a longer distance to travel to make one orbit, so
> the disk does not rotate as a unit.  The orbital period is proportional
> to its distance from the center.
> 
> One of the puzzles of science is _why_ the star speed is about the same
> everywhere rather than getting slower as you go further out (like our
> solar system), this is why many scientists believe in dark matter.
> A certain distribution of invisible mass produces the obverved orbital
> periods.

It is a delicious puzzle, isn't it? I look forward to the day when more light is cast on a possible solution to this puzzle.

\Paul A

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#545022

FromHVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com>
Date2016-01-13 03:00 -0800
Message-ID<2bc1bd2b-94d0-4a05-a9cf-f804922fdf15@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#544978
One of the puzzles of science is _why_ the star speed is about the same 
everywhere rather than getting slower as you go further out (like our 
solar system), this is why many scientists believe in dark matter. 
A certain distribution of invisible mass produces the obverved orbital 
periods. 
-------------

Another puzzle is the relationship between the M-sigma of a galaxy and the mass of that galaxy's smbh.

John. These are REAL science questions. You won't find the answers by believing in some fucked up 'fractal' bullshit.

The universe of the real is far more amazing than any fairy tale fractal universe. 

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#545197

Frombenj <none@gmail.com>
Date2016-01-13 17:50 -0500
Message-ID<DwAly.156565$Gc6.12640@fx08.iad>
In reply to#545022
On 01/13/2016 06:00 AM, HVAC wrote:
>
> One of the puzzles of science is _why_ the star speed is about the same
> everywhere rather than getting slower as you go further out (like our
> solar system), this is why many scientists believe in dark matter.
> A certain distribution of invisible mass produces the obverved orbital
> periods.
> -------------
>
> Another puzzle is the relationship between the M-sigma of a galaxy and the mass of that galaxy's smbh.
>
> John. These are REAL science questions. You won't find the answers by believing in some fucked up 'fractal' bullshit.
>
> The universe of the real is far more amazing than any fairy tale fractal universe.

John, HVAC believes in black holes, Astrology, Big Bang, ghosts and 
other fantasies, but doesn't know enough to figure out that universe is 
so large that the probability of other humanoid life is overwhelming. 
All he says is "get off my lawn". He can't even IMAGINE the unseed 
dimensions of the universe.


-- 

       ___           ___           ___            ___
      /\  \         /\  \         /\__\          /\  \
     /::\  \       /::\  \       /::|  |         \:\  \
    /:/\:\  \     /:/\:\  \     /:|:|  |     ___ /::\__\
   /::\~\:\__\   /::\~\:\  \   /:/|:|  |__  /\  /:/\/__/
  /:/\:\ \:|__| /:/\:\ \:\__\ /:/ |:| /\__\ \:\/:/  /
  \:\~\:\/:/  / \:\~\:\ \/__/ \/__|:|/:/  /  \::/  /
   \:\ \::/  /   \:\ \:\__\       |:/:/  /    \/__/
    \:\/:/  /     \:\ \/__/       |::/  /
     \::/__/       \:\__\         /:/  /
      ~~            \/__/         \/__/

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#544973

Frommoroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date2016-01-13 03:17 +0000
Message-ID<n74fl2$g7d$2@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to#544956
john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> writes:

>Michael: stars take more or less time, depending on their exact 
>orbit.  It's like a whirlpool, the center circles more times than the "

>But how do the arms remain contiguous?
>I know- you say they don't, but all spiral
>galaxies have them, so they must.

They're standing waves of density.  The arms are high densities of stars
and gases, and in between arms are low densities of stars and gases.  
Individual stars orbit through both regions, spending more time in high
density regions. High density encourages formation of new stars, including
bright, short-lived massive stars.  These stars make the arms even
brighter, and they burn out before they move through the low density 
regions, so they are dimmer.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Density_wave_theory   There are 
animations there for you to play with.  Notice you can have it so that
the stars of the galaxy revolve around the center but the arms themselves
are stationary.

I've seen somewhere animations that mark one star as a separate color so 
you can see it enter and leave the arms as it orbits.

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#545053

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2016-01-13 07:53 -0600
Message-ID<n75ktl$o53$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#544956
On 1/12/2016 7:41 PM, john wrote:
> Michael: stars take more or less time, depending on their exact
> orbit.  It's like a whirlpool, the center circles more times than the "
>
> Yes, I like that because it fits with the
> BH extreme spin idea.

However, it also DOESN'T fit with your comparison of the period of the 
galaxy with that of the atom. Repeating the points made:
- Our galaxy does not have a well-defined period. The inside turns with 
a faster period than the outside. So when you pick a number, on what 
basis do you pick whether to use the inside, the outside, or the number 
where the Earth happens to be?
- Our galaxy has a completely different period than the periods of other 
galaxies. So when you cite the period of a galaxy, why did you choose ours?

Choose any other galaxy, or choose any other radius in our galaxy other 
than where the Earth is, and your earth-atom ratio goes to hell in a 
handbasket.

So.... still like the idea?

And if the above points don't bother you, shouldn't it concern you that 
the SINGLE NUMERICAL FEATURE of your idea doesn't hold up?

> But how do the arms remain contiguous?
> I know- you say they don't, but all spiral
> galaxies have them, so they must.
>


-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#545068

Fromjohn <johnsefton288@gmail.com>
Date2016-01-13 06:55 -0800
Message-ID<2d67487f-d0ca-43e9-b3d4-13e2d0fe8ce3@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#545053
Oh Odd- stow it

Let's look at BHs as TWO things-
a WHIRLPOOL of DM which is turning
really fast at the centre and progressively
slower at the edge
and an arm of stars immersed in 
that whirlpool that has self-attraction:
could that combination explain rotation
curves? The star-arm is more and more
curved closer and closer to the centre
by the increased speed 

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#545070

Fromjohn <johnsefton288@gmail.com>
Date2016-01-13 07:02 -0800
Message-ID<8541c7b6-8571-4db4-b299-418cbe3d7207@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#545068
btw Odd:
from "Space"-
"This spinning of galaxies continues even after their formation. Our Milky Way galaxy is one of these spinning structures and its entire disc of stars, gas and dust is rotating at around 168 miles per second."

Entire disc of stars, Odd.
At 168 miles per second.
Which part?
The edge?

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#545083

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2016-01-13 09:54 -0600
Message-ID<n75rv5$163l$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#545070
On 1/13/2016 9:02 AM, john wrote:
> btw Odd:
> from "Space"-
> "This spinning of galaxies continues even after their formation. Our Milky Way galaxy
> is one of these spinning structures and its entire disc of stars, gas and dust is rotating
> at around 168 miles per second."
>
> Entire disc of stars, Odd.
> At 168 miles per second.
> Which part?
> The edge?
>

See, John, this is what you get from reading cartoon versions of science 
materials. They say things like that and you just run with them without 
doing any further work to see what it can mean. To you, that one number 
means the whole galaxy is rotating together at a common speed, like a disc.

Except a disc doesn't spin at one speed either. The inside of a spinning 
disc has a different speed in miles per hour than the outside of a disc.
http://fivecrow.com/uploads/3/5/5/4/3554419/7597082_orig.jpg

Except the galaxy doesn't rotate together as a disk, either. The inside 
completes a revolution in a shorter period of time than the outside, 
which is completely different than a disc.

So maybe the problem, John, just maybe, is your ridiculous choice of 
reading materials.



-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#545090

Frommoroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date2016-01-13 16:31 +0000
Message-ID<n75u5k$a4g$1@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to#545083
Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> writes:

>On 1/13/2016 9:02 AM, john wrote:
>> btw Odd:
>> from "Space"-
>> "This spinning of galaxies continues even after their formation. Our Milky Way galaxy
>> is one of these spinning structures and its entire disc of stars, gas and dust is rotating
>> at around 168 miles per second."
>>
>> Entire disc of stars, Odd.
>> At 168 miles per second.
>> Which part?
>> The edge?
>>

>See, John, this is what you get from reading cartoon versions of science 
>materials. They say things like that and you just run with them without 
>doing any further work to see what it can mean. To you, that one number 
>means the whole galaxy is rotating together at a common speed, like a disc.

>Except a disc doesn't spin at one speed either. The inside of a spinning 
>disc has a different speed in miles per hour than the outside of a disc.
>http://fivecrow.com/uploads/3/5/5/4/3554419/7597082_orig.jpg

>Except the galaxy doesn't rotate together as a disk, either. The inside 
>completes a revolution in a shorter period of time than the outside, 
>which is completely different than a disc.

>So maybe the problem, John, just maybe, is your ridiculous choice of 
>reading materials.

Yeah, John doesn't realize the consequences of what he wrote.

In most spiral galaxies, away from the center, the stars all have 
approximately the same speed.  However, a star further from the
center has a longer trip around the center so it takes longer to go
around the center.  If Star B is twice as far from the center as Star A,
and both travel at the same speed, Star A goes around the center twice in
the time it takes Star B to go around once.  As a consequence, a galaxy
does NOT rotate as a unit like a disk, and it makes no sense to say that
such a galaxy rotates once in X million years.

On the other hand, a point on the outside of a rotating disk moves faster
than a point near the center, with the speed being proportional to the 
distance from the center.

A star further from the center of a galaxy "should" move _slower_ than
one near the center, like the Solar System planets.  That they move at
about the same speed means there is additional mass in the galaxy that we
can't see, "dark matter" of some sort.

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#545095

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2016-01-13 11:01 -0600
Message-ID<n75vtt$1dmm$2@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#545090
On 1/13/2016 10:31 AM, Michael Moroney wrote:
> A star further from the center of a galaxy "should" move_slower_  than
> one near the center, like the Solar System planets.  That they move at
> about the same speed means there is additional mass in the galaxy that we
> can't see, "dark matter" of some sort.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8aBZZnv6y8

John, please note how many times Venus goes around for every one time 
Uranus goes around. Does that look like a spinning disc like you? Isn't 
it true that for a spinning disc, every point on the disc goes around 
once in the same interval of time?

-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#545130

Fromjohn <johnsefton288@gmail.com>
Date2016-01-13 11:04 -0800
Message-ID<000300ac-3724-4327-86e6-8cbe6a50d6c4@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#545095
Odd
How have you not been hit by a bus?
"I don't know why you keep bringing up too small"

Google " fractal "

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#545136

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2016-01-13 13:25 -0600
Message-ID<n768bc$1vnh$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#545130
On 1/13/2016 1:04 PM, john wrote:
> Odd
> How have you not been hit by a bus?
> "I don't know why you keep bringing up too small"
>
> Google " fractal "
>

But you keep insisting that dark matter must be too small and THAT'S WHY 
it only interacts gravitationally. But that doesn't follow.

It's like saying mice are lizards and THAT'S WHY they have four legs. 
First of all, a lot of mammals have four legs, so being a reptile isn't 
the reason for having four legs. Secondly, mice aren't reptiles.

So dark matter doesn't need to be small to interact only 
gravitationally. Secondly, there's no reason to believe that dark matter 
is very small.

Finally, you say you believe it's small because you believe the universe 
is fractal with a repeating scale pattern of 10^31. But this statement 
is based on the orbital period of ONE KIND of atom and the orbital 
period of ONE PLACE in ONE PARTICULAR galaxy, and doesn't hold up for 
anywhere else in the same galaxy or for any other galaxy for that 
matter. And so your fractal belief is not really believable anyway. Capiche?

And you say *I'm* the one that is lucky to not be hit by a bus?

-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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